T Nation

PCT Advice for Test/Deca/Var Cycle

Hey Guys,

Getting ready to start another cycle. I’ve done about 8 - 10 cycles over the last decade but by no means an expert, just a casual recreational user. Mid 30s, 200lbs, 5’8", lifting for 20 yrs, about 15% bf. Here’s what i got planned for my next cycle. I’m really looking for some insight on the synergies between the different drugs I’m planning and any drug interactions I might not be aware of. Is there anything here that is not really adding value? And… as the subject line states, i’m trying to figure out a proper PCT, as i had a horrible time recovering from Deca the last time i used it.

Week 1 - 14 Test-400 400mg/wk
Week 1 - 12 Deca 250mg/wk
Week 10 - 16 Anavar 50mg/ed
Week 12 - 16 Proviron 25mg/ed
Week 1 - 16 HCG 250iu/eod
Week 1 - 16 Aromasin 12.5mg/eod
Week 17 - 21 Clomid 50mg/ed
Week 17 - 23 Nolvadex 20mg/ed

I’ve also got some Pramipexole on-hand and will use that during the Deca portion of the cycle.

Other typical ancillaries will include Fish Oil, Liv-52 and Lipid-Stabil.

All comments appreciated, especially related to PCT. I have heard that Nolvadex and Deca do not mix well together… however with a 5-week break between my last Deca shot and the start of my Nolvadex use for PCT… i figured i would be ok??

Thanks!
Bluff

Anyone? How about just some advise on the PCT portion?

Anyone???

looks go to me. Good luck and have fun

Seriously? nobody??? F*ing sad piece of trash wanna be forum…

[quote]mighty_bluff wrote:
Seriously? nobody??? F*ing sad piece of trash wanna be forum…[/quote]

Your estrogen sounds pretty high already, so you may want to be sure to take care of that on cycle.

You may be okay at PCT, but I would still go with a clomid only PCT probably. Look up the doses for that, I cruise and blast so I don’t remember all the PCT information exactly.

I would keep the prami on hand, and just use it if you need it.

I personally use caber and like it for the other benefits as well. (Improves my sleep, focus, libido, and has been suggested that it may be able to improve learning of some movements, which is good when improving form is a constant goal)

Good luck.

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]mighty_bluff wrote:
Seriously? nobody??? F*ing sad piece of trash wanna be forum…[/quote]

Your estrogen sounds pretty high already, so you may want to be sure to take care of that on cycle.[/quote]

major lulz

Running the HCG that long you run the risk of desensitizing the leydig cells. If running a cycle that long, you may want to take a week or two off the HCG somewhere in the middle. There’s more info on this if you read the stickies.

Also, not sure of the benefit to cost of running both the Proviron and Anavar. Don’t think you would really see that much difference if you picked one or the other.

[quote]dom_hollow wrote:
Running the HCG that long you run the risk of desensitizing the leydig cells. [/quote]

Huh?

Please explain how that would work. If you do not know what you are talking about, you should probably refrain from giving advice.

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]mighty_bluff wrote:
Seriously? nobody??? F*ing sad piece of trash wanna be forum…[/quote]

Your estrogen sounds pretty high already, so you may want to be sure to take care of that on cycle.[/quote]

This.
You seem fairly unstable. GTFO.
Why are we helping people like this.

SB

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]dom_hollow wrote:
Running the HCG that long you run the risk of desensitizing the leydig cells. [/quote]

Huh?

Please explain how that would work. If you do not know what you are talking about, you should probably refrain from giving advice.[/quote]

Ah, perhaps a more accurate statement would be that long term use of hcg (which mimics LH/FSH) can down regulate the leydig cell receptors, (desensitize is not quite accurate). Thus taking a week or two break in the middle of your proposed cycle would allow them to up regulate. In the same manner, you stop taking hcg about 2 weeks prior to the start of your PCT, so they are primed for the rise in your natural LH/FSH levels.

[quote]dom_hollow wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]dom_hollow wrote:
Running the HCG that long you run the risk of desensitizing the leydig cells. [/quote]

Huh?

Please explain how that would work. If you do not know what you are talking about, you should probably refrain from giving advice.[/quote]

Ah, perhaps a more accurate statement would be that long term use of hcg (which mimics LH/FSH) can down regulate the leydig cell receptors, (desensitize is not quite accurate). Thus taking a week or two break in the middle of your proposed cycle would allow them to up regulate. In the same manner, you stop taking hcg about 2 weeks prior to the start of your PCT, so they are primed for the rise in your natural LH/FSH levels.[/quote]

Nope, sorry. Unless you have evidence to the contrary, this sounds like bro science at its finest. What makes you think that long term use of hcg would down regulat the leyding cell receptors? Since HCG is an LH (not FSH) mimic, it serves the exact same function as natural LH as far as your testicles are concerned. Nobody runs around saying that your body’s natural LH production will down regulate your leyding cells or to occasionally suppress your body’s natural LH production to allow them to “up regulate”, so why would you suggest this for hcg?

HCG should be stopped just long enough before PCT to allow the drug to clear your body. About 2 half lives, or 5 days.

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]dom_hollow wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]dom_hollow wrote:
Running the HCG that long you run the risk of desensitizing the leydig cells. [/quote]

Huh?

Please explain how that would work. If you do not know what you are talking about, you should probably refrain from giving advice.[/quote]

Ah, perhaps a more accurate statement would be that long term use of hcg (which mimics LH/FSH) can down regulate the leydig cell receptors, (desensitize is not quite accurate). Thus taking a week or two break in the middle of your proposed cycle would allow them to up regulate. In the same manner, you stop taking hcg about 2 weeks prior to the start of your PCT, so they are primed for the rise in your natural LH/FSH levels.[/quote]

Nope, sorry. Unless you have evidence to the contrary, this sounds like bro science at its finest. What makes you think that long term use of hcg would down regulat the leyding cell receptors? Since HCG is an LH (not FSH) mimic, it serves the exact same function as natural LH as far as your testicles are concerned. Nobody runs around saying that your body’s natural LH production will down regulate your leyding cells or to occasionally suppress your body’s natural LH production to allow them to “up regulate”, so why would you suggest this for hcg?

HCG should be stopped just long enough before PCT to allow the drug to clear your body. About 2 half lives, or 5 days.[/quote]

An hour or so on Pub Med yielded nothing to support my claims. Numerous studies on rats talked about desensitization, but nothing that clearly indicated hcg. I will admit it has long been a common notion that the leydig cells may become down regulated, but numerous other boards also claim it to be myth aka “bro science”. VT thanks for challenging this, its always good to question our perceived understanding of such topics!

Glad to get some responses…thanks. I had to say that Sh*t because i knew it would ilicit responses… and it did work. Otherwise, the post would go completely unnoticed. Good info / back & forth on the HCG. I actually did read an article once from Dr. Scally at Meso, saying something about cycling HCG during long cycles, and not to take it longer than 4 weeks at a time. I’ll see if I can find the post/article.

[quote]mighty_bluff wrote:
Glad to get some responses…thanks. I had to say that Sh*t because i knew it would ilicit responses… and it did work. Otherwise, the post would go completely unnoticed. Good info / back & forth on the HCG. I actually did read an article once from Dr. Scally at Meso, saying something about cycling HCG during long cycles, and not to take it longer than 4 weeks at a time. I’ll see if I can find the post/article.[/quote]

Don’t let the Doctor in front of Scally’s name fool you, he lost his license and is no longer allowed to practice medicine. There is a reason for that. The guy is dumb as a bag of rocks.

He can’t get past his little pissing contest with Crisler (and in fairness Crisler is just as big of a blowhard) long enough to offer any reasonable thoughts. All of his thoughts on hcg seem to be developed just because they directly oppose Crisler’s. I have little respect for either of them.

I didn’t know that about Scally, I thought he was a credible source

[quote]rds63799 wrote:
I didn’t know that about Scally, I thought he was a credible source[/quote]

Some light reading for when you are on the shitter

cool, cheers for that

…although if you’re spending so long on the shitter that you have time to read something like that then you’d better get to a doctor.