Paula Deen Needs Jessie Jackson

Off Topic
21

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]Big Kahuna wrote:
Isn’t the issue more that she’s still unabashedly racist? I’ve not read all too much into this because of prior obligations and admittedly a lack of interest in the situation and Deen herself, and I will give her at least a small bit of leeway on the bank robbery event because I can see her anger taking hold in the heat of the moment; but I’m more concerned that this is not just something she said without thinking about the grander connotations of. If she called that bank robber fellow a nigger and that was that for the accusations against her, then I would be very welcome to giving her the benefit of the doubt that she was attacking the idea of the individual and not of the entire race, of course.

However, even now in a calm and level-headed (as level-headed as Paula Deen can get) state, her comments are still somewhat degrading to blacks as a race with some staggering regularity. Now maybe she’s not going to shave off her hair and start an Aryan war, but this is an idea that she’s been brought up to think with and I’m not sure she’s entirely understanding of the effect her thought processes on race are having with her black employees.

I don’t think she’s a vitriolic and hate-filled warrior for the racist cause, I just think she’s a total fucking moron, and she needs to be led to understand why her words are not the most appropriate to use regularly amongst black-skinned people and be led to understand their plight regarding the pre/mid/post-Civil War from a different perspective so she can gather all her sources and come to terms with that too.

She’s not harmful to anyone, she’s just oblivious to why people are upset about what she’s said. I’d readily accept her being given back her shows and merchandising etc. if she were just shown how to conduct herself amongst a large audience of people and not offend half of them.[/quote]

What standard should she be held to? I’m treating her as any old white woman who grew up in the south. She is not an educated woman or entirely all that worldly. She is not even considered a “Chef”. And it shows in her statements she comes across as a confused old woman. Now if it comes out she is using it at the work “the N’s at table six need more salt” then yes. Shut her down. She does make money off the public so Yes she does need to watch her public image.
But come on. What Did the public think she was before?
[/quote]

Look at the time when she was growing up. She was only a teen when the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed. And after that there were some “whites only” holdouts that went on past that.

So, steeped in that tradition, what does everyone expect out of her? You knew it was a snake when you picked it up.

Unfortunately, timing is everything. Now the world has swung to being overwhelming PC. Pretty bad when shithole stores like Kmart et al won’t hawk your brand. And what was her brand? A pretty face and that sweet southern charm plastered on what was basically a Betty Crocker cookbook gone viral.

Heck, at age 66 maybe The Food Network was getting ready to dump her, that’s my theory. Why not suck up to the youthful sexiness of Giada, even though she sports a plastered-on fake smile?

Rob

22

[quote]beachguy498 wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]Big Kahuna wrote:
Isn’t the issue more that she’s still unabashedly racist? I’ve not read all too much into this because of prior obligations and admittedly a lack of interest in the situation and Deen herself, and I will give her at least a small bit of leeway on the bank robbery event because I can see her anger taking hold in the heat of the moment; but I’m more concerned that this is not just something she said without thinking about the grander connotations of. If she called that bank robber fellow a nigger and that was that for the accusations against her, then I would be very welcome to giving her the benefit of the doubt that she was attacking the idea of the individual and not of the entire race, of course.

However, even now in a calm and level-headed (as level-headed as Paula Deen can get) state, her comments are still somewhat degrading to blacks as a race with some staggering regularity. Now maybe she’s not going to shave off her hair and start an Aryan war, but this is an idea that she’s been brought up to think with and I’m not sure she’s entirely understanding of the effect her thought processes on race are having with her black employees.

I don’t think she’s a vitriolic and hate-filled warrior for the racist cause, I just think she’s a total fucking moron, and she needs to be led to understand why her words are not the most appropriate to use regularly amongst black-skinned people and be led to understand their plight regarding the pre/mid/post-Civil War from a different perspective so she can gather all her sources and come to terms with that too.

She’s not harmful to anyone, she’s just oblivious to why people are upset about what she’s said. I’d readily accept her being given back her shows and merchandising etc. if she were just shown how to conduct herself amongst a large audience of people and not offend half of them.[/quote]

What standard should she be held to? I’m treating her as any old white woman who grew up in the south. She is not an educated woman or entirely all that worldly. She is not even considered a “Chef”. And it shows in her statements she comes across as a confused old woman. Now if it comes out she is using it at the work “the N’s at table six need more salt” then yes. Shut her down. She does make money off the public so Yes she does need to watch her public image.
But come on. What Did the public think she was before?
[/quote]

Look at the time when she was growing up. She was only a teen when the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed. And after that there were some “whites only” holdouts that went on past that.

So, steeped in that tradition, what does everyone expect out of her? You knew it was a snake when you picked it up.

Unfortunately, timing is everything. Now the world has swung to being overwhelming PC. Pretty bad when shithole stores like Kmart et al won’t hawk your brand. And what was her brand? A pretty face and that sweet southern charm plastered on what was basically a Betty Crocker cookbook gone viral.

Heck, at age 66 maybe The Food Network was getting ready to dump her, that’s my theory. Why not suck up to the youthful sexiness of Giada, even though she sports a plastered-on fake smile?

Rob[/quote]

The problem to me is not that she grew up back then, around that time, with those people and held the views then, it’s that she’s still holding the views over fifty years afterwards. If the entire nation can (albeit very slowly) legalise it’s way out of that sordid mess with the backlash it would have had to face along the way, then it’s not entirely out of the question for one person to pick up a few books or read a couple of news stories and decide that maybe black people aren’t the demon slaves everyone expected them to be.

It doesn’t surprise me that Paula Deen is at least casually racist (or racially offensive if racist is deemed too hateful for her actual personality type), or that she’s stupid enough to remain steadfast in her opinion for such a long time without realising why the things happening around her, are happening. She just needs somebody to pull her out of that 20th century hole when it concerns race and teach her a little on how a lot of people fucked up way back then and now we’re trying to make it somewhat right, so it would be nice if she could join in the festivities too. She’s not a bad person, she’s just a dumb person, and she doesn’t deserve to have been pulled from the shelves like she has, she just needs a very short time out to get her shit together so we can drop that as an issue and everybody can get on with their workday at the Paula Deen offices/sets without having to hear that kind of stuff.

Yes, sometimes the political reasoning is far too protective of everyone to not be detrimental to some party of people that may not deserve the vitriol towards them if their views are but slightly askew of the PC ideal. Sadly the winds picked up and Deen was left laying in the rubble with her face in the dirt before she could realise what had happened, but with some guidance in ladylike manners on a national (if not global) scale of populace and understandings of her morals and the right and the wrong, then I would be pleased to see her readily go back to the nice little old grandma cookery shows and continue to do what she’s always enjoyed doing without having to be hissed at every so often.

23

[quote]Big Kahuna wrote:

[quote]beachguy498 wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]Big Kahuna wrote:
Isn’t the issue more that she’s still unabashedly racist? I’ve not read all too much into this because of prior obligations and admittedly a lack of interest in the situation and Deen herself, and I will give her at least a small bit of leeway on the bank robbery event because I can see her anger taking hold in the heat of the moment; but I’m more concerned that this is not just something she said without thinking about the grander connotations of. If she called that bank robber fellow a nigger and that was that for the accusations against her, then I would be very welcome to giving her the benefit of the doubt that she was attacking the idea of the individual and not of the entire race, of course.

However, even now in a calm and level-headed (as level-headed as Paula Deen can get) state, her comments are still somewhat degrading to blacks as a race with some staggering regularity. Now maybe she’s not going to shave off her hair and start an Aryan war, but this is an idea that she’s been brought up to think with and I’m not sure she’s entirely understanding of the effect her thought processes on race are having with her black employees.

I don’t think she’s a vitriolic and hate-filled warrior for the racist cause, I just think she’s a total fucking moron, and she needs to be led to understand why her words are not the most appropriate to use regularly amongst black-skinned people and be led to understand their plight regarding the pre/mid/post-Civil War from a different perspective so she can gather all her sources and come to terms with that too.

She’s not harmful to anyone, she’s just oblivious to why people are upset about what she’s said. I’d readily accept her being given back her shows and merchandising etc. if she were just shown how to conduct herself amongst a large audience of people and not offend half of them.[/quote]

What standard should she be held to? I’m treating her as any old white woman who grew up in the south. She is not an educated woman or entirely all that worldly. She is not even considered a “Chef”. And it shows in her statements she comes across as a confused old woman. Now if it comes out she is using it at the work “the N’s at table six need more salt” then yes. Shut her down. She does make money off the public so Yes she does need to watch her public image.
But come on. What Did the public think she was before?
[/quote]

Look at the time when she was growing up. She was only a teen when the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed. And after that there were some “whites only” holdouts that went on past that.

So, steeped in that tradition, what does everyone expect out of her? You knew it was a snake when you picked it up.

Unfortunately, timing is everything. Now the world has swung to being overwhelming PC. Pretty bad when shithole stores like Kmart et al won’t hawk your brand. And what was her brand? A pretty face and that sweet southern charm plastered on what was basically a Betty Crocker cookbook gone viral.

Heck, at age 66 maybe The Food Network was getting ready to dump her, that’s my theory. Why not suck up to the youthful sexiness of Giada, even though she sports a plastered-on fake smile?

Rob[/quote]

The problem to me is not that she grew up back then, around that time, with those people and held the views then, it’s that she’s still holding the views over fifty years afterwards. If the entire nation can (albeit very slowly) legalise it’s way out of that sordid mess with the backlash it would have had to face along the way, then it’s not entirely out of the question for one person to pick up a few books or read a couple of news stories and decide that maybe black people aren’t the demon slaves everyone expected them to be.

It doesn’t surprise me that Paula Deen is at least casually racist (or racially offensive if racist is deemed too hateful for her actual personality type), or that she’s stupid enough to remain steadfast in her opinion for such a long time without realising why the things happening around her, are happening. She just needs somebody to pull her out of that 20th century hole when it concerns race and teach her a little on how a lot of people fucked up way back then and now we’re trying to make it somewhat right, so it would be nice if she could join in the festivities too. She’s not a bad person, she’s just a dumb person, and she doesn’t deserve to have been pulled from the shelves like she has, she just needs a very short time out to get her shit together so we can drop that as an issue and everybody can get on with their workday at the Paula Deen offices/sets without having to hear that kind of stuff.

Yes, sometimes the political reasoning is far too protective of everyone to not be detrimental to some party of people that may not deserve the vitriol towards them if their views are but slightly askew of the PC ideal. Sadly the winds picked up and Deen was left laying in the rubble with her face in the dirt before she could realise what had happened, but with some guidance in ladylike manners on a national (if not global) scale of populace and understandings of her morals and the right and the wrong, then I would be pleased to see her readily go back to the nice little old grandma cookery shows and continue to do what she’s always enjoyed doing without having to be hissed at every so often.[/quote]

How does one gain the insight to make such a character judgement about a person over something they said 20 years ago?

Seth MacFarlane says the same sort of crap and worse in an animated cartoon, and it’s hip and fresh. Some fat, old southern woman says the same thing 20 years ago, and she should be stripped of everything in the name of PC? And needs to be re-programmed?

What if she didn’t have a southern accent and she looked like Giada DeLaurentis? Or had the comedic genius of MacFarlane? Would she still be forced to the the curb then?

There’s definitely some bigotry going on here, with an over-sized side serving of hypocrisy.

And I don’t even like Paula Dean.

24

[quote]drunkpig wrote:

[quote]Big Kahuna wrote:

[quote]beachguy498 wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]Big Kahuna wrote:
Isn’t the issue more that she’s still unabashedly racist? I’ve not read all too much into this because of prior obligations and admittedly a lack of interest in the situation and Deen herself, and I will give her at least a small bit of leeway on the bank robbery event because I can see her anger taking hold in the heat of the moment; but I’m more concerned that this is not just something she said without thinking about the grander connotations of. If she called that bank robber fellow a nigger and that was that for the accusations against her, then I would be very welcome to giving her the benefit of the doubt that she was attacking the idea of the individual and not of the entire race, of course.

However, even now in a calm and level-headed (as level-headed as Paula Deen can get) state, her comments are still somewhat degrading to blacks as a race with some staggering regularity. Now maybe she’s not going to shave off her hair and start an Aryan war, but this is an idea that she’s been brought up to think with and I’m not sure she’s entirely understanding of the effect her thought processes on race are having with her black employees.

I don’t think she’s a vitriolic and hate-filled warrior for the racist cause, I just think she’s a total fucking moron, and she needs to be led to understand why her words are not the most appropriate to use regularly amongst black-skinned people and be led to understand their plight regarding the pre/mid/post-Civil War from a different perspective so she can gather all her sources and come to terms with that too.

She’s not harmful to anyone, she’s just oblivious to why people are upset about what she’s said. I’d readily accept her being given back her shows and merchandising etc. if she were just shown how to conduct herself amongst a large audience of people and not offend half of them.[/quote]

What standard should she be held to? I’m treating her as any old white woman who grew up in the south. She is not an educated woman or entirely all that worldly. She is not even considered a “Chef”. And it shows in her statements she comes across as a confused old woman. Now if it comes out she is using it at the work “the N’s at table six need more salt” then yes. Shut her down. She does make money off the public so Yes she does need to watch her public image.
But come on. What Did the public think she was before?
[/quote]

Look at the time when she was growing up. She was only a teen when the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed. And after that there were some “whites only” holdouts that went on past that.

So, steeped in that tradition, what does everyone expect out of her? You knew it was a snake when you picked it up.

Unfortunately, timing is everything. Now the world has swung to being overwhelming PC. Pretty bad when shithole stores like Kmart et al won’t hawk your brand. And what was her brand? A pretty face and that sweet southern charm plastered on what was basically a Betty Crocker cookbook gone viral.

Heck, at age 66 maybe The Food Network was getting ready to dump her, that’s my theory. Why not suck up to the youthful sexiness of Giada, even though she sports a plastered-on fake smile?

Rob[/quote]

The problem to me is not that she grew up back then, around that time, with those people and held the views then, it’s that she’s still holding the views over fifty years afterwards. If the entire nation can (albeit very slowly) legalise it’s way out of that sordid mess with the backlash it would have had to face along the way, then it’s not entirely out of the question for one person to pick up a few books or read a couple of news stories and decide that maybe black people aren’t the demon slaves everyone expected them to be.

It doesn’t surprise me that Paula Deen is at least casually racist (or racially offensive if racist is deemed too hateful for her actual personality type), or that she’s stupid enough to remain steadfast in her opinion for such a long time without realising why the things happening around her, are happening. She just needs somebody to pull her out of that 20th century hole when it concerns race and teach her a little on how a lot of people fucked up way back then and now we’re trying to make it somewhat right, so it would be nice if she could join in the festivities too. She’s not a bad person, she’s just a dumb person, and she doesn’t deserve to have been pulled from the shelves like she has, she just needs a very short time out to get her shit together so we can drop that as an issue and everybody can get on with their workday at the Paula Deen offices/sets without having to hear that kind of stuff.

Yes, sometimes the political reasoning is far too protective of everyone to not be detrimental to some party of people that may not deserve the vitriol towards them if their views are but slightly askew of the PC ideal. Sadly the winds picked up and Deen was left laying in the rubble with her face in the dirt before she could realise what had happened, but with some guidance in ladylike manners on a national (if not global) scale of populace and understandings of her morals and the right and the wrong, then I would be pleased to see her readily go back to the nice little old grandma cookery shows and continue to do what she’s always enjoyed doing without having to be hissed at every so often.[/quote]

How does one gain the insight to make such a character judgement about a person over something they said 20 years ago?

Seth MacFarlane says the same sort of crap and worse in an animated cartoon, and it’s hip and fresh. Some fat, old southern woman says the same thing 20 years ago, and she should be stripped of everything in the name of PC? And needs to be re-programmed?

What if she didn’t have a southern accent and she looked like Giada DeLaurentis? Or had the comedic genius of MacFarlane? Would she still be forced to the the curb then?

There’s definitely some bigotry going on here, with an over-sized side serving of hypocrisy.

And I don’t even like Paula Dean. [/quote]

It’s not about what she said, it’s about how she thinks. What she said during the robbery was just something that somebody picked up on and accused her of racism for, I don’t condemn her for what she said during the robbery if that were the only thing, in certain circumstances I see it to be excusable. In light of the accusation thrust upon her, it’s her statements since that have allowed me to reason an idea of her mentality on black race and why it’s not as pleasant as it should be regarding her as a national figure, or more importantly a human being. I don’t think she should be stripped of everything, I think she should be stripped of nothing, but she should be led through the wrongs of her thought patterns before she’s expected to stand in front of a TV audience and make them all feel good about their day. She does however, indeed, need to be re-programmed. She’s not a terrible person, and she’s not spiteful or purposefully demeaning, but her attitude concerning this grand section of the population is damaging to her work and image and she would be the better for fixing it, I’m not sure how anyone can argue that she shouldn’t be less racist (mildly casually racist, but still).

There are plenty of hot hollywood models and actresses that are disturbingly racist and I give them no pass solely on the basis of their looks. That’s insane to let someone continue to have an intolerant behaviour and sense of entitlement on such superficial reasons of defence.

McFarlane does so in the name of comedy, and while I believe that very often the border is crossed between what is tolerable and intolerable, I will let pass some edgier jokes if the result is genuinely funny and is more so presented in the name of comedy than a disrespectful representation of the comedian’s personal mentality. I don’t like McFarlane too much, and I do believe sometimes he does go too far with very little reward, but if the result of his comedic endeavours are funny, then I will let it pass because comedy is not something that should be reigned in too often. I would defend a Patrice O’Neil/Doug Stanhope race joke if it were funny and not completely empty and hateful, I would not defend Michael Richard’s nigger rant at The Laugh Factory.

Paula Deen’s purpose on her show is not to be edgy, she is not working the darker linings of public speaking like comedians are, she is supposed to be seen as respectable and accepting of her audience and if she continues to behave this way towards blacks, especially now that it’s not so behind the curtain, then she’ll alienate a large portion of her audience.

“Bigotry is the state of mind of a bigot: someone who, as a result of their prejudices, treats other people with hatred, contempt, and intolerance on the basis of a person’s ethnicity, religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, disability, socioeconomic status, or other characteristics.”

Does that above definition of bigotry not somewhat encompass Paula Deen’s mentality, even if it’s very mild relative to the usual grand cases of bigotry? If we can both agree that bigotry is a malicious trait, then why are we split between the extent of her becoming more accepting and staying grounded in her awry beliefs? Maybe I too am a bigot, but if I am, I am a bigot with good intentions. I am a bigot towards Paula Deen’s bigotry, even if it is small and easily changeable.

If you could explain to me the extent of my hypocrisy then that would be very much welcomed, because maybe I am also a hypocrite and I can’t quite see it under my own perspective. But if I were, I would be reluctant to believe that my wish for Paula Deen to promote a more loving and welcoming mentality like she displays outside of the race issues wouldn’t be supporting of her career and moral integrity. If I happen to have some grand, shiny stint of hypocrisy tucked away in these posts, then I don’t see how it could be used against me to squash the greater reasoning of my argument. Maybe it would make me a shitty person, but my main views themselves would remain in good intent.

25

[quote]Big Kahuna wrote:

[quote]drunkpig wrote:

[quote]Big Kahuna wrote:

[quote]beachguy498 wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]Big Kahuna wrote:
Isn’t the issue more that she’s still unabashedly racist? I’ve not read all too much into this because of prior obligations and admittedly a lack of interest in the situation and Deen herself, and I will give her at least a small bit of leeway on the bank robbery event because I can see her anger taking hold in the heat of the moment; but I’m more concerned that this is not just something she said without thinking about the grander connotations of. If she called that bank robber fellow a nigger and that was that for the accusations against her, then I would be very welcome to giving her the benefit of the doubt that she was attacking the idea of the individual and not of the entire race, of course.

However, even now in a calm and level-headed (as level-headed as Paula Deen can get) state, her comments are still somewhat degrading to blacks as a race with some staggering regularity. Now maybe she’s not going to shave off her hair and start an Aryan war, but this is an idea that she’s been brought up to think with and I’m not sure she’s entirely understanding of the effect her thought processes on race are having with her black employees.

I don’t think she’s a vitriolic and hate-filled warrior for the racist cause, I just think she’s a total fucking moron, and she needs to be led to understand why her words are not the most appropriate to use regularly amongst black-skinned people and be led to understand their plight regarding the pre/mid/post-Civil War from a different perspective so she can gather all her sources and come to terms with that too.

She’s not harmful to anyone, she’s just oblivious to why people are upset about what she’s said. I’d readily accept her being given back her shows and merchandising etc. if she were just shown how to conduct herself amongst a large audience of people and not offend half of them.[/quote]

What standard should she be held to? I’m treating her as any old white woman who grew up in the south. She is not an educated woman or entirely all that worldly. She is not even considered a “Chef”. And it shows in her statements she comes across as a confused old woman. Now if it comes out she is using it at the work “the N’s at table six need more salt” then yes. Shut her down. She does make money off the public so Yes she does need to watch her public image.
But come on. What Did the public think she was before?
[/quote]

Look at the time when she was growing up. She was only a teen when the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed. And after that there were some “whites only” holdouts that went on past that.

So, steeped in that tradition, what does everyone expect out of her? You knew it was a snake when you picked it up.

Unfortunately, timing is everything. Now the world has swung to being overwhelming PC. Pretty bad when shithole stores like Kmart et al won’t hawk your brand. And what was her brand? A pretty face and that sweet southern charm plastered on what was basically a Betty Crocker cookbook gone viral.

Heck, at age 66 maybe The Food Network was getting ready to dump her, that’s my theory. Why not suck up to the youthful sexiness of Giada, even though she sports a plastered-on fake smile?

Rob[/quote]

The problem to me is not that she grew up back then, around that time, with those people and held the views then, it’s that she’s still holding the views over fifty years afterwards. If the entire nation can (albeit very slowly) legalise it’s way out of that sordid mess with the backlash it would have had to face along the way, then it’s not entirely out of the question for one person to pick up a few books or read a couple of news stories and decide that maybe black people aren’t the demon slaves everyone expected them to be.

It doesn’t surprise me that Paula Deen is at least casually racist (or racially offensive if racist is deemed too hateful for her actual personality type), or that she’s stupid enough to remain steadfast in her opinion for such a long time without realising why the things happening around her, are happening. She just needs somebody to pull her out of that 20th century hole when it concerns race and teach her a little on how a lot of people fucked up way back then and now we’re trying to make it somewhat right, so it would be nice if she could join in the festivities too. She’s not a bad person, she’s just a dumb person, and she doesn’t deserve to have been pulled from the shelves like she has, she just needs a very short time out to get her shit together so we can drop that as an issue and everybody can get on with their workday at the Paula Deen offices/sets without having to hear that kind of stuff.

Yes, sometimes the political reasoning is far too protective of everyone to not be detrimental to some party of people that may not deserve the vitriol towards them if their views are but slightly askew of the PC ideal. Sadly the winds picked up and Deen was left laying in the rubble with her face in the dirt before she could realise what had happened, but with some guidance in ladylike manners on a national (if not global) scale of populace and understandings of her morals and the right and the wrong, then I would be pleased to see her readily go back to the nice little old grandma cookery shows and continue to do what she’s always enjoyed doing without having to be hissed at every so often.[/quote]

How does one gain the insight to make such a character judgement about a person over something they said 20 years ago?

Seth MacFarlane says the same sort of crap and worse in an animated cartoon, and it’s hip and fresh. Some fat, old southern woman says the same thing 20 years ago, and she should be stripped of everything in the name of PC? And needs to be re-programmed?

What if she didn’t have a southern accent and she looked like Giada DeLaurentis? Or had the comedic genius of MacFarlane? Would she still be forced to the the curb then?

There’s definitely some bigotry going on here, with an over-sized side serving of hypocrisy.

And I don’t even like Paula Dean. [/quote]

It’s not about what she said, it’s about how she thinks. What she said during the robbery was just something that somebody picked up on and accused her of racism for, I don’t condemn her for what she said during the robbery if that were the only thing, in certain circumstances I see it to be excusable. In light of the accusation thrust upon her, it’s her statements since that have allowed me to reason an idea of her mentality on black race and why it’s not as pleasant as it should be regarding her as a national figure, or more importantly a human being. I don’t think she should be stripped of everything, I think she should be stripped of nothing, but she should be led through the wrongs of her thought patterns before she’s expected to stand in front of a TV audience and make them all feel good about their day. She does however, indeed, need to be re-programmed. She’s not a terrible person, and she’s not spiteful or purposefully demeaning, but her attitude concerning this grand section of the population is damaging to her work and image and she would be the better for fixing it, I’m not sure how anyone can argue that she shouldn’t be less racist (mildly casually racist, but still).

There are plenty of hot hollywood models and actresses that are disturbingly racist and I give them no pass solely on the basis of their looks. That’s insane to let someone continue to have an intolerant behaviour and sense of entitlement on such superficial reasons of defence.

McFarlane does so in the name of comedy, and while I believe that very often the border is crossed between what is tolerable and intolerable, I will let pass some edgier jokes if the result is genuinely funny and is more so presented in the name of comedy than a disrespectful representation of the comedian’s personal mentality. I don’t like McFarlane too much, and I do believe sometimes he does go too far with very little reward, but if the result of his comedic endeavours are funny, then I will let it pass because comedy is not something that should be reigned in too often. I would defend a Patrice O’Neil/Doug Stanhope race joke if it were funny and not completely empty and hateful, I would not defend Michael Richard’s nigger rant at The Laugh Factory.

Paula Deen’s purpose on her show is not to be edgy, she is not working the darker linings of public speaking like comedians are, she is supposed to be seen as respectable and accepting of her audience and if she continues to behave this way towards blacks, especially now that it’s not so behind the curtain, then she’ll alienate a large portion of her audience.

“Bigotry is the state of mind of a bigot: someone who, as a result of their prejudices, treats other people with hatred, contempt, and intolerance on the basis of a person’s ethnicity, religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, disability, socioeconomic status, or other characteristics.”

Does that above definition of bigotry not somewhat encompass Paula Deen’s mentality, even if it’s very mild relative to the usual grand cases of bigotry? If we can both agree that bigotry is a malicious trait, then why are we split between the extent of her becoming more accepting and staying grounded in her awry beliefs? Maybe I too am a bigot, but if I am, I am a bigot with good intentions. I am a bigot towards Paula Deen’s bigotry, even if it is small and easily changeable.

If you could explain to me the extent of my hypocrisy then that would be very much welcomed, because maybe I am also a hypocrite and I can’t quite see it under my own perspective. But if I were, I would be reluctant to believe that my wish for Paula Deen to promote a more loving and welcoming mentality like she displays outside of the race issues wouldn’t be supporting of her career and moral integrity. If I happen to have some grand, shiny stint of hypocrisy tucked away in these posts, then I don’t see how it could be used against me to squash the greater reasoning of my argument. Maybe it would make me a shitty person, but my main views themselves would remain in good intent.
[/quote]

I wasn’t so much singling you out as I was noticing the trend in this thread. Maybe bigotry was the wrong term. A little too harsh. Perhaps prejudice is more appropriate.

You don’t know Paula Deen. I don’t know Paula Deen. All you have to go on is a few quotes made in the wake of what seems to be a malicious attack on Ms. Deen. I don’t think that is enough to be able to hold her existence in any level of contempt. There is a double standard being displayed here.

Obviously, what is coming out now doesn’t jive with her folksy, aw shucks schtick. But just because real life doesn’t match the created and cultivated TV persona doesn’t mean she needs to be kinder and gentler in real life.

The PC paranoia is being perpetrated somewhere near the top of the entertainment food chain given the snowballing of companies that are trying to distance themselves from something that should not even warrant a blip on the radar.

26

[quote]drunkpig wrote:

[quote]Big Kahuna wrote:

[quote]drunkpig wrote:

[quote]Big Kahuna wrote:

[quote]beachguy498 wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:

[quote]Big Kahuna wrote:
Isn’t the issue more that she’s still unabashedly racist? I’ve not read all too much into this because of prior obligations and admittedly a lack of interest in the situation and Deen herself, and I will give her at least a small bit of leeway on the bank robbery event because I can see her anger taking hold in the heat of the moment; but I’m more concerned that this is not just something she said without thinking about the grander connotations of. If she called that bank robber fellow a nigger and that was that for the accusations against her, then I would be very welcome to giving her the benefit of the doubt that she was attacking the idea of the individual and not of the entire race, of course.

However, even now in a calm and level-headed (as level-headed as Paula Deen can get) state, her comments are still somewhat degrading to blacks as a race with some staggering regularity. Now maybe she’s not going to shave off her hair and start an Aryan war, but this is an idea that she’s been brought up to think with and I’m not sure she’s entirely understanding of the effect her thought processes on race are having with her black employees.

I don’t think she’s a vitriolic and hate-filled warrior for the racist cause, I just think she’s a total fucking moron, and she needs to be led to understand why her words are not the most appropriate to use regularly amongst black-skinned people and be led to understand their plight regarding the pre/mid/post-Civil War from a different perspective so she can gather all her sources and come to terms with that too.

She’s not harmful to anyone, she’s just oblivious to why people are upset about what she’s said. I’d readily accept her being given back her shows and merchandising etc. if she were just shown how to conduct herself amongst a large audience of people and not offend half of them.[/quote]

What standard should she be held to? I’m treating her as any old white woman who grew up in the south. She is not an educated woman or entirely all that worldly. She is not even considered a “Chef”. And it shows in her statements she comes across as a confused old woman. Now if it comes out she is using it at the work “the N’s at table six need more salt” then yes. Shut her down. She does make money off the public so Yes she does need to watch her public image.
But come on. What Did the public think she was before?
[/quote]

Look at the time when she was growing up. She was only a teen when the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed. And after that there were some “whites only” holdouts that went on past that.

So, steeped in that tradition, what does everyone expect out of her? You knew it was a snake when you picked it up.

Unfortunately, timing is everything. Now the world has swung to being overwhelming PC. Pretty bad when shithole stores like Kmart et al won’t hawk your brand. And what was her brand? A pretty face and that sweet southern charm plastered on what was basically a Betty Crocker cookbook gone viral.

Heck, at age 66 maybe The Food Network was getting ready to dump her, that’s my theory. Why not suck up to the youthful sexiness of Giada, even though she sports a plastered-on fake smile?

Rob[/quote]

The problem to me is not that she grew up back then, around that time, with those people and held the views then, it’s that she’s still holding the views over fifty years afterwards. If the entire nation can (albeit very slowly) legalise it’s way out of that sordid mess with the backlash it would have had to face along the way, then it’s not entirely out of the question for one person to pick up a few books or read a couple of news stories and decide that maybe black people aren’t the demon slaves everyone expected them to be.

It doesn’t surprise me that Paula Deen is at least casually racist (or racially offensive if racist is deemed too hateful for her actual personality type), or that she’s stupid enough to remain steadfast in her opinion for such a long time without realising why the things happening around her, are happening. She just needs somebody to pull her out of that 20th century hole when it concerns race and teach her a little on how a lot of people fucked up way back then and now we’re trying to make it somewhat right, so it would be nice if she could join in the festivities too. She’s not a bad person, she’s just a dumb person, and she doesn’t deserve to have been pulled from the shelves like she has, she just needs a very short time out to get her shit together so we can drop that as an issue and everybody can get on with their workday at the Paula Deen offices/sets without having to hear that kind of stuff.

Yes, sometimes the political reasoning is far too protective of everyone to not be detrimental to some party of people that may not deserve the vitriol towards them if their views are but slightly askew of the PC ideal. Sadly the winds picked up and Deen was left laying in the rubble with her face in the dirt before she could realise what had happened, but with some guidance in ladylike manners on a national (if not global) scale of populace and understandings of her morals and the right and the wrong, then I would be pleased to see her readily go back to the nice little old grandma cookery shows and continue to do what she’s always enjoyed doing without having to be hissed at every so often.[/quote]

How does one gain the insight to make such a character judgement about a person over something they said 20 years ago?

Seth MacFarlane says the same sort of crap and worse in an animated cartoon, and it’s hip and fresh. Some fat, old southern woman says the same thing 20 years ago, and she should be stripped of everything in the name of PC? And needs to be re-programmed?

What if she didn’t have a southern accent and she looked like Giada DeLaurentis? Or had the comedic genius of MacFarlane? Would she still be forced to the the curb then?

There’s definitely some bigotry going on here, with an over-sized side serving of hypocrisy.

And I don’t even like Paula Dean. [/quote]

It’s not about what she said, it’s about how she thinks. What she said during the robbery was just something that somebody picked up on and accused her of racism for, I don’t condemn her for what she said during the robbery if that were the only thing, in certain circumstances I see it to be excusable. In light of the accusation thrust upon her, it’s her statements since that have allowed me to reason an idea of her mentality on black race and why it’s not as pleasant as it should be regarding her as a national figure, or more importantly a human being. I don’t think she should be stripped of everything, I think she should be stripped of nothing, but she should be led through the wrongs of her thought patterns before she’s expected to stand in front of a TV audience and make them all feel good about their day. She does however, indeed, need to be re-programmed. She’s not a terrible person, and she’s not spiteful or purposefully demeaning, but her attitude concerning this grand section of the population is damaging to her work and image and she would be the better for fixing it, I’m not sure how anyone can argue that she shouldn’t be less racist (mildly casually racist, but still).

There are plenty of hot hollywood models and actresses that are disturbingly racist and I give them no pass solely on the basis of their looks. That’s insane to let someone continue to have an intolerant behaviour and sense of entitlement on such superficial reasons of defence.

McFarlane does so in the name of comedy, and while I believe that very often the border is crossed between what is tolerable and intolerable, I will let pass some edgier jokes if the result is genuinely funny and is more so presented in the name of comedy than a disrespectful representation of the comedian’s personal mentality. I don’t like McFarlane too much, and I do believe sometimes he does go too far with very little reward, but if the result of his comedic endeavours are funny, then I will let it pass because comedy is not something that should be reigned in too often. I would defend a Patrice O’Neil/Doug Stanhope race joke if it were funny and not completely empty and hateful, I would not defend Michael Richard’s nigger rant at The Laugh Factory.

Paula Deen’s purpose on her show is not to be edgy, she is not working the darker linings of public speaking like comedians are, she is supposed to be seen as respectable and accepting of her audience and if she continues to behave this way towards blacks, especially now that it’s not so behind the curtain, then she’ll alienate a large portion of her audience.

“Bigotry is the state of mind of a bigot: someone who, as a result of their prejudices, treats other people with hatred, contempt, and intolerance on the basis of a person’s ethnicity, religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, disability, socioeconomic status, or other characteristics.”

Does that above definition of bigotry not somewhat encompass Paula Deen’s mentality, even if it’s very mild relative to the usual grand cases of bigotry? If we can both agree that bigotry is a malicious trait, then why are we split between the extent of her becoming more accepting and staying grounded in her awry beliefs? Maybe I too am a bigot, but if I am, I am a bigot with good intentions. I am a bigot towards Paula Deen’s bigotry, even if it is small and easily changeable.

If you could explain to me the extent of my hypocrisy then that would be very much welcomed, because maybe I am also a hypocrite and I can’t quite see it under my own perspective. But if I were, I would be reluctant to believe that my wish for Paula Deen to promote a more loving and welcoming mentality like she displays outside of the race issues wouldn’t be supporting of her career and moral integrity. If I happen to have some grand, shiny stint of hypocrisy tucked away in these posts, then I don’t see how it could be used against me to squash the greater reasoning of my argument. Maybe it would make me a shitty person, but my main views themselves would remain in good intent.
[/quote]

I wasn’t so much singling you out as I was noticing the trend in this thread. Maybe bigotry was the wrong term. A little too harsh. Perhaps prejudice is more appropriate.

You don’t know Paula Deen. I don’t know Paula Deen. All you have to go on is a few quotes made in the wake of what seems to be a malicious attack on Ms. Deen. I don’t think that is enough to be able to hold her existence in any level of contempt. There is a double standard being displayed here.

Obviously, what is coming out now doesn’t jive with her folksy, aw shucks schtick. But just because real life doesn’t match the created and cultivated TV persona doesn’t mean she needs to be kinder and gentler in real life.

The PC paranoia is being perpetrated somewhere near the top of the entertainment food chain given the snowballing of companies that are trying to distance themselves from something that should not even warrant a blip on the radar.

[/quote]

Ah, my apologies, I get a little antsy sometimes.

You are indeed right, the extent of my views are regarded entirely on speculation, there’s no way it could not be. But I guess it’s a necessary evil to regard Paula Deen solely on what we’ve seen of her lately, as I expect nobody in this thread or perhaps even those who frequent this forum section may know Deen personally and be able to comment on the justifications of any of our expectancies. Through that, speculation is all that any of us can commit to the thread, and so if we were to hold off from that, there would be no debate here and the thread would be rendered totally meaningless. While not a perfect system, I have a lot of spare time and I’d rather the thread be of some substance than absolutely none at all, besides, when I’m drunk I enjoy putting on my muddy wellingtons and going to forum war, at least with some sense of logic and purposeful debate. All I can really go on for right now is what I’ve seen of her succeeding the accusations, and so I can debate about her solely on that, if she would like to show us all something a little more genuinely redeeming in the near future, then we would have that to go on too.

Real life does indeed not match the TV persona, as is resonant with nearly all celebrities aside from those who really don’t care any more (Charlie Sheen?). But I expect that her individual on-screen visage is at least somewhat reminiscent of her real personality, and if she were to become better adjusted to racial equality on a base level then that would translate not only to her genuine nature on her shows, but also improve her social standing immeasurably around those of black ethnicity in the grander arena of her life. Her nice demeanour on her shows helps her a lot, and displaying her humility after this on the screen would be great for her sustainability, but if she were to improve her ethnic relations in real life then she’d be left off better on more than just the tip of the iceberg.

Indeed, the Paula Deen fiasco we’re all raging on about is pitifully insignificant in the bigger picture of news instances, and it is being made a larger deal out of than it likely should be. Paula Deen is not malicious and I don’t expect her attitude towards blacks to be particularly poisonous, and I think so long as she doesn’t continue to snag at people in her workplace or in social gatherings unknowingly then people should regard her as they did before this, and she should be re-allowed the extent of what she is owed.

If she can be genuinely accepting of blacks, then I suspect we all (including blacks) could readily forgive her and be on our merry way. A couple history lessons and some moral distinction and hopefully we’d be closer to everything as it was, but with the added satisfaction of knowing Deen can handle herself better around different races. Of course that’s too ideal and I’m sure she’ll still be unfairly judged by many, even if she were to make such a transformation, we’ll have to hold on and see how this plays out of course to determine whether that is an accurate prediction, but it would sadden me if she were still hunted for it past an objectively positive direction change on the subject.

27

^ Im not aware of any black people that are that surprised or pissed at her. This is mostly a media and corporate battle. The media loves any scandal and if none is around blow one up. Her corporate battle is about not wanting to look bad.

28

[quote]four60 wrote:
^ Im not aware of any black people that are that surprised or pissed at her. This is mostly a media and corporate battle. The media loves any scandal and if none is around blow one up. Her corporate battle is about not wanting to look bad.[/quote]

Not many have anything against her. The media and legal community have turned her into a paper monster. We have degraded to being a rat-your-mother-out-for-a-dime-society. What used to be on the front page of the Enquirer is now on the front page of the NY Times.

Corporate-wise, she is now a pariah. She will bounce back in time.

Rob

29

who the fuck cares about paula deen?

30

[quote]Aggv wrote:
who the fuck cares about paula deen? [/quote]

Her family, the people that will lose a job because of all of this both black and white and that is a lot of people. But not Oprah she isn’t touching this one with a ten foot deep fried drumstick

31

[quote]four60 wrote:
But not Oprah she isn’t touching this one with a ten foot deep fried drumstick [/quote]

I find it hard to believe that she could resist such a stick, no matter what the circumstances.

32

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:
But not Oprah she isn’t touching this one with a ten foot deep fried drumstick [/quote]

I find it hard to believe that she could resist such a stick, no matter what the circumstances. [/quote]

I so vehemently despise that voraciously appetited woman.

34

Didn’t that big Lib Alec Baldwin call a reporter a “Coon”?

And he still has his job…

35

[quote]Brett620 wrote:
Didn’t that big Lib Alec Baldwin call a reporter a “Coon”?

And he still has his job…[/quote]

Yeah, Baldwin made some outlandish homophobic comments recently in the wake of a criticism on his pregnant wife during Gandolfini’s funeral I believe. A very bad move on his part of course, the reporter in question on the recent “scandal” was part of a British Publication, though I doubt I can remember which in my current state, but I’m sure he was either admittedly gay or under the assumption that he was gay, and Baldwin went on a lengthy tirade to berate him for it. It was silly and he could have articulated himself in a much more respectable and meaningful manner, but he decided to go and bash the man on his sexual preferences as opposed to his lack of substance in reporting quality and bashing of Baldwin’s wife.

I’m not entirely sure of Baldwin’s political standing, but I am sure he is indeed progressive and the ridiculous extent of his shaming of the reporter on things not at all related to the stupid article is kind of disconcerting. If he were to criticise the article (which was pretty silly), then he should not have let himself be caught up in such blind hatred for the “journalist” himself and instead attacked the presentation of the article as a poor display of reporting.

36

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]four60 wrote:
But not Oprah she isn’t touching this one with a ten foot deep fried drumstick [/quote]

I find it hard to believe that she could resist such a stick, no matter what the circumstances. [/quote]

I hear Oprah has been resisting sticks for the majority of her life.

#HypocriticalComedy.

37

[quote]Big Kahuna wrote:

[quote]Brett620 wrote:
Didn’t that big Lib Alec Baldwin call a reporter a “Coon”?

And he still has his job…[/quote]

Yeah, Baldwin made some outlandish homophobic comments recently in the wake of a criticism on his pregnant wife during Gandolfini’s funeral I believe. A very bad move on his part of course, the reporter in question on the recent “scandal” was part of a British Publication, though I doubt I can remember which in my current state, but I’m sure he was either admittedly gay or under the assumption that he was gay, and Baldwin went on a lengthy tirade to berate him for it. It was silly and he could have articulated himself in a much more respectable and meaningful manner, but he decided to go and bash the man on his sexual preferences as opposed to his lack of substance in reporting quality and bashing of Baldwin’s wife.

I’m not entirely sure of Baldwin’s political standing, but I am sure he is indeed progressive and the ridiculous extent of his shaming of the reporter on things not at all related to the stupid article is kind of disconcerting. If he were to criticise the article (which was pretty silly), then he should not have let himself be caught up in such blind hatred for the “journalist” himself and instead attacked the presentation of the article as a poor display of reporting.[/quote]

Oh, Baldwin is a HUGE liberal and that’s my point. The media plays selective enforcement.

38

[quote]Brett620 wrote:

Oh, Baldwin is a HUGE liberal and that’s my point. The media plays selective enforcement. [/quote]

I think Deen is a big Barry fan. I know she was pretty tight with Oprah. Point being - I don’t think she is what one would consider a real conservative.

Just my opinion, but the whole Deen thing is based on prejudices held by glass towered white elites that Southern white folks are really a society of backwater racist pigs.

If Paula Deen had a midwest accent, or any other accent to her speech - this thing gets zero traction. But because she sounds like she just fell off the mint julep wagon - here we are.

39

[quote]drunkpig wrote:

[quote]Brett620 wrote:

Oh, Baldwin is a HUGE liberal and that’s my point. The media plays selective enforcement. [/quote]

I think Deen is a big Barry fan. I know she was pretty tight with Oprah. Point being - I don’t think she is what one would consider a real conservative.

Just my opinion, but the whole Deen thing is based on prejudices held by glass towered white elites that Southern white folks are really a society of backwater racist pigs.

If Paula Deen had a midwest accent, or any other accent to her speech - this thing gets zero traction. But because she sounds like she just fell off the mint julep wagon - here we are.
[/quote]

That.
Her PR people/Handlers also deserve some blame. They made her 1st go into hiding and then come out looking guilty of something. To be honest her reaction in court was the best one. “Ms Dean have you ever said…” PAULA “of course, once to my husband 20 years ago after being held up”

Instead she comes out crying looking confused and blaming her working staff for confusing her? Well damn woman if you only said it 20 yrs ago what does your workers conversation have to do with anything. Her handlers should be fired.

But it’s still all so very silly.

40

Though I love Jack Donaghy I think I’d hate Alec Baldwin so much in real life.