T Nation

Paul Revere/Savage Nation

Been listening to a guy who tells it like it is and I think articulates the thoughts of some of us patriotic Americans who serve in the military and public service agencies that protect and defend this country and those who believe in life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness!

Here are the 8 points of action needed to save this country!:

  1. End affirmative action now!
  2. Close the Borders NOW!
  3. Deport all illegal immigrants NOW!
  4. Eliminate all bilingual education in all states.
  5. Requrie health tests for all recent foreign born immigrants.
  6. Make tax cuts permanent!
  7. Reduce the number of federal employees.
  8. Tort reform- stop class action lawyers!

Savage…

I’m as patriotic as they come but this John Birch shit isn’t the way to run a country. I agree with getting rid of affirmative action. The rest is pandering to fear of those that don’t look like us. I think we should open the borders. I think we should teach more foreign language in our schools so we can travel abroad and see the rest of the world easier. I think work visas should be really easy to get and easy to renew.

I’ll get into this more as the flames build…

Why don;t you round everyone up who isn;t an american and put them in a prison, tatoo don;t feed them, work them to death, and kill them for no reason in disgusting ways. Hell, why stop there, do this in every country for people who aren;t americans.

You’re a fucking idiot.

1 - agreed

we need STIFFER borders but not closed borders. We also need to deport all illegal aliens. They are ILLEGAL and shouldn’t be here.

Then again, can we deport some people from this board?

there is a vast difference between “legal immigration” and “illegal immigration” tink about dat!

Hiel!

Adolf, Joe Stalin and Saddam would all agree.

We could change the sign on the Statue of Liberty to read: “FUCK OFF” while we’re at it, too.

  1. End affirmative action now! - ACLU anyone??

  2. Close the Borders NOW! - yeah, anyone notice what was about to happen with the steel tariffs Bush instituted?? same thing will happen here

  3. Deport all illegal immigrants NOW! - only if you track down most of the mexicans

  4. Eliminate all bilingual education in all states. - while you’re at it, eliminate eduction in all states too.

  5. Requrie health tests for all recent foreign born immigrants. - fuck you for even saying this, i’m a bloody immigrant and I am healthier than 90% of the americans out there.

  6. Make tax cuts permanent! - no, no, and finally no. we can use that money for better things (a sound domestic plan for one

  7. Reduce the number of federal employees. - eh, dunno wot to say about this one

  8. Tort reform- stop class action lawyers! - no, big corporations will continue ass-pounding the little ppl, just change the system so that teachers, doctors, and those “good” ppl can do their jobs without worry of litigation.

my 2 cents, if you want i’ll explain any point in great detail.

Ren…tme…you guys are good at exagerration. Note…Illegal immigration is not the same as LEGAL immigration! geeze…you are some dumbasses…and that inclues you too grooveless dork…

I’ve been listening to Dr. Savage for over a year now. He does indeed tell it like is.

Some of the flames directed toward Savage's points should actually listen to his show. They'd probably find themselves agreeing with most of what he says.

He's not just some blowhard. He's written 18 books, has 2 masters degrees and a Phd.

tme,

What are you talking about? What complaint do you have with deporting ILLEGAL Aliens. They've committed a felony and should be deported. Our Constitution and our laws exist for a reason: to protect us! Our government can't when we have thousands of people entering our country illegally on a daily basis. It isn't hard to understand.

Perhaps the flames should be reserved until some of you learn more about what Savage stands for.

Dustin

let me guess, your white and grew up in an upper middle class neighborhood?

Sounds like Savage could stand to do some reading on the border situation in AZ, where it is often local communities who are forced to pay for security measures because the federal budget isn’t there.

Homeland Security my ass - the very corporations that contribute big cash to DC are the very ones who depend on illegal immigrant workers.

They want the APPEARANCE of a secure border.

P-Dog,

Was that question directed towards me? If so, why do you ask?

Dustin

Savage mostly has the right idea about immigration, but not a lot else. He talks about his education, but does not come off as that intelligent. Some of the stuff he says is plain stupid. As for immigration, people should understand the issues before they say, “Fuck you, racist, we should open the borders, you’re ignorant.” A politically correct knee jerk reaction to an open discussion of anything remotely having to do with race and ethnicity that does not paint so-called minorities in the best possible light and, or, make whites out to be the evil cause of all problems is ignorant and conditioned. This country is taking in too many uneducated, unskilled people whom it cannot support. All immigration is not bad, but there have to be limits. Right now we are seeing immigration levels that we have never seen before. Look at the crisis that California is going through. Take a look at Southern California and the problems they are having. A lot of this is due to unchecked immigration. Do you want the whole country to be like So Cal, budget crisis, healthcare crisis, hospitals shut down, education down the tank. Having half the residents speaking a different language than the rest, because that is the trend. In the next 50-100 years this WILL drastically change America as you and I know it, and not for the better. We might not be around to see it, but our children will. As for the diseases, modern nations mostly had TB wiped out, but people coming from poorer nations where health care and living conditions are not to our standards have brought it back to the US and it is spreading. Scientists are always discovering new threats to our blood supply and at least one major one on the rise is brought in from South and Central America. I do not remember the disease, but the recipient gets it from a beetle that drops down from the thatched roof they are sleeping under and defecates on their mouth (I know, gross) and it lies dormant. It is transferred in the blood and can become active decades later in them or someone who has received their blood. It is incurable and sometimes results in death. This is just one of many risks to the blood supply. Many are not spread directly by immigrants. This is just a tiny example of the kinds of problems immigration can cause. It’s not all just fulfilling dreams of a better life and cheap meat packing plant labor bliss. As for the Statue of Liberty, the sign on it is just a sign. It’s not a law. It’s not our Country’s motto. I don’t care if you are for or against immigration, but I hope you will seek out information on important topics like this yourself and form educated opinions. Sorry for the diatribe.

Another fine example of polarizing a debate to extremes to

A) get publicity
B) get people reacting

These politic tactics are getting quite predictible AND boring.

(Unless you`re a friend of the system, of course…)

I’ve heard his program on the radio, and actually caught it on TV a couple times Sorry, but when I listen to him, I laugh my ass off. People hear him once, and call in to attack him, not realizing they are putting their heads on a chopping block. If you listen to his show, and try not to think about the politics you will be entertained, but if you just focus on the opinions, too often people get upset. These people just turn into his “meat”.

Now as far as his politics:

  1. I remember a little quote; “I have a dream that my four children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.” Affirmative action judges you based upon the color of you skin, so I disagree with this policy. This does not promote a color blind society, and in fact gets in the way of such a society.

  2. Closing the borders? No, this is not a great idea. I am not sure how far Savage really wants something like this to go though, because he keeps saying he is the son of an immigrant. If it is closing the borders to illegal immigrants, that is different. But blocking legal immigration is a very bad idea. Especially since this country actually makes a lot of money on foreign tourism. Not to mention how many countries pay to send their kids to American schools. Another big part of the economy. We also need to keep the different ides entering our country. It is one of the things that make America great.

  3. Illegal immigration is bad not only for America, but for the immigrants. Many work for illegal wages, are afraid to go to doctors because they are afraid they will be deported, and afraid to go to police for the same reason. Too often these people become nothing more then slaves. Others might be able to get fake social security cards, and get real jobs, but even then they work scared. They are not able to achieve as easily as a legal immigrants. (If anyone cares, legal immigrants tend to be more successful then natural born Americans.)

On the other side, at this time America cannot support unlimited immigration. It would be great if we could, but it just is not possible. Some people try to say that the American economy is sitting on the backs of illegals, but actually they are a drag on the economy. The only people benefiting are the people taking advantage of them.

Here are some facts I found online:

Newly released statistics from the Department of Homeland Security show:

  • In 2002, the federal government located 1,062,279 deportable aliens, of whom:
    97 percent had entered the country illegally;
    93 percent were from Mexico;
    90 percent were apprehended by the Border Patrol;
    88 percent were apprehended along the southern border.
  • In 2002, 1,082,174 aliens were expelled from the U.S.;
    86 percent submitted to removal without a legal battle;
    14 percent were removed after a formal procedure.
  • Of those who were removed by a formal procedure:
    37 percent had entered illegally;
    28 percent had attempted fraudulent entry into the United States;
    25 percent were criminals;
    8 percent had previously been removed and were ineligible for re-entry.
    New data from the federal Bureau of Prisons show that 29 percent of the federal prisoner population (or 47,570) are immigrants. This is a slight increase from 1995, when the figure was 25 percent.
    (The figure would be much higher if state prisoners were counted, but current data are not available on the nativity status of those additional inmates. Less than eight percent of the country?s prison population are in federal prisons.) - End Quote.
  1. I believe the bilingual education does not refer to teaching of more then one language, but actually the lack of teaching English to some students because they are from another country. Many Immigrants are actually upset by this policy because not knowing English is a major block to success in this country. People are so “worried” about some students having trouble with the language they just want to make things easier. Interestingly children have the easiest time leaning any language. What should happen is to have an extra class, and/or assistance with the language and still go to the regular classes, even if it means at a slower pace, or even later date.

  2. A health test. Not a bad idea. Just because we would want to keep certain diseases from coming to this country. Then again I don’t see a problem with having Americans do the same thing when returning from a visit to other countries. I know what kind of inconvenience (i.e. pain in the ass,) this might be, but having blocks to a potential pandemic is a good idea.

  3. Tax cuts. Too many people don’t understand economics, and taxes effect on an economy. Too often people just look at tax increases as a way to punish the rich for being rich, not realizing that the biggest reason most people are rich is because they saved their way into it, not because they make a lot of money. Most millionaires live modestly. Many of the affluent you see are actually living paycheck to paycheck. Too often people think of the rich, and think of BMW’s and big houses. But most often this is more a sign of a lot of credit then a high income. (Hilton family exempt from this statement.)
    Another thing to consider is that taxes are paid by the middle class and the poor. The guy who owns 10 of the restaurants in town looks at an increase in taxes, and sees an expense. No worry because all expenses are covered by the profit column. Now your hamburger is up by a nickel, and so are the fries and the shakes.

Can’t raise prices? “Hey bob, I have to cut you down to part time.”, “Wow, this machine lets one person do the work of three, couldn’t afford it before, but now I can’t afford not to get it.” And now job hours are cut. Raises might suffer. Who is paying this tax?

  1. What? You are only transferred 12 times instead of thirteen? The government needs to be more efficient, and more effective. This might just be a way to say smaller government, but it’s not the only way. This should not be the focus actually, but it will be part of the effects of a smaller government. I do think that the government should try to make sure these employees have a chance at other government jobs that come available. Maybe searching through displaced government workers first. (I don’t know if they do this or not.) The biggest problem with our ever-growing government is the piss pore use of funds. If the government was not wasting money, there would be more money available for everything that really matters.

Can anyone disagree with the idea that it is bad to live on credit cards? Why should the government do it? And yes I believe Bush is doing a terrible job with the budget. I will say that if he is trying to spend his way out of a deficit, that is not such a bad thing, if done temporarily. (And technically the deficit ended a couple of years ago, but the recovery has taken forever.)

  1. Torts, too much sugar. Ok seriously this is an issue that needs to be addressed, but very carefully. While I agree with a reform, I don’t think that there is anyone in the government smart enough to do it right. Politics would have to be left out completely. And with how government is currently positioned, that is not possible.

Now Savage’s shtick involves talking in a way that annoys liberals. He is obviously over the top, and that has more to do with his success then anything. He is a polarizing figure, which is great for ratings, but bad for politics.

Now the single worst thing I have ever heard him say is that too much protein is bad for the kidneys.

I usually listen to something else, but often there is nothing else on. (Sorry, but I find sports that don’t involve girls in wet shirts, or tight clothing, boring.)

i’m patriotic and i serve this country in more ways than others here yet i don’t agree with most of what you posted.

race-based affirmative action is flawed, i agree. it’d be a good idea to put more emphasis on socio-economic status (which correlates with ethnicity strongly) and allow it to exist only up to the university level. you want to have social mobility in the united states. if you’re poor (any ethnicity) it’s pretty hard to be upwardly mobile esp. with today’s global economy laden with production over-capacitance.

yes, illegal immigrants are here illegally but deporting them is the wrong solution to the problem. unlike what some political leaders say, mexican government is not the problem. the main problem has more to do with china since they have extremely low wage levels and are artificially deflating their currency. this means that most of the global production is coming out of china, and the other developing countries that have signed free trade agreements with developing nations are getting screwed over with the competition. the (mexican) problem is already becoming an industrialized nation problem as people all over the world are getting laid off and end up competing for the most dismal of jobs. i believe the solution involves some sort of pressure on the chinese policymakers, but that’s a whole other thread that i wont even get into.

there arent any diseases that immigrants bring in that any other traveller doesn’t. does someone have you thinking that immigrants are forced carriers of certain diseases? i think you’ve been watching “24” too much.

closed borders are not a good thing. as an example, think of whatever small town and imagine it to be an independent nation. the economy will not grow very much for many reasons, but mainly because economic resources are immobile. with open borders you have a much larger labor market, much larger supply, and much larger demand. in theory this leads to increases in productivity and overall economic growth (i.e. you get to buy plasma TVs and super-fast computers at a reasonable price).

if the benefits outweigh the costs, then why not. if for the price of bilingual education, immigrants end up being more productive citizens because they were able to assimilate the country at a better pace, then why wouldnt you want to do it? i would rather have fellow countrymen who are knowledgeable and able people than permanently disadvantaged because they were hit-or-miss at grade school.

I agree with everything except deporting all of the illegal aliens. I like to eat, and I know that every farm in the South would come to a screeching halt if all illegal aliens were deported. I’m not picking cabbage in 100 degree wheather.

1. End affirmative action now!

great! that would be awesome. especially now that it’s legal ‘so long as it isn’t apparent.’ meaning that we don’t even know when we’re being fucked. get rid of it for sure! how is it not insulting to blacks anyway? ‘you’re not good enough to do it on your own, so we’ll help out.’

2. Close the Borders NOW!

what do you mean “close”? completely cut off all immigrants? that’s not a good idea. make things more strict, sure, but totally shut off, i don’t think so.

3. Deport all illegal immigrants NOW!

damn straight! and those bastards think they have rights! there was some thing where a group of aliens were suing someone. wtf?!? get the hell out of our country you pricks! and illegals can get driver’s licenses?? that’s fucked up.

4. Eliminate all bilingual education in all states.

definitely! this is america! we speak english, NOT spanish or anything like that. learn the language of the country or shut up. schools should only teach in english.

5. Requrie health tests for all recent foreign born immigrants.

sure, sounds like a good idea.

6. Make tax cuts permanent!

yesss! take the power away from the dumass liberals and give it to the people! government programs and taxes only hinder growth and waste money. let the people have their money, be free, and make more money! how about a flat tax rate of 13% like russia? that would be even better.

7. Reduce the number of federal employees.

there should be more private businesses and competition in order to keep things efficient, save money, and make the end products cheaper. competition is the key.

8. Tort reform- stop class action lawyers!

good idea.

4. Eliminate all bilingual education in all states. - while you’re at it, eliminate eduction in all states too.

wow, congrats on the most useless comment of the month.

Thanks Mage, you saved me from having to type a lot of that stuff. I guess the problem I have is more with the messenger than the message itself. Savage lives in a world that is only black and white, no gray. The one (and maybe only?) thing that 46 years have taught me is that there is no such thing as absolute black and white, only infinite shades of gray.

  1. Affirmative action was a great thing and has served its purpose, but its time has passed. I don’t agree that it needs to be eliminated entirely, but it’s past time for an update.

  2. Close the borders to who? How? The East Germans tried that once, it mostly had the opposite of its intended effect. Blanket black and white statements are generally pretty stupid to begin with.

  3. Again, a blanket statement. I know an “illegal immigrant” who has been here for many years, works hard, pays taxes, owns a house and has raised a family. Should he be deported now because of how he arrived here twenty years ago? Does how he has lived his life over those twenty years factor in to the equation? At the same time, someone who is here either legally or illegally who is a drain on society should be sent packing.

  4. Bilingual education should focus on teaching English, not providing an education in another language. Eliminating it entirely doesn’t make any sense and would benefit no one.

  5. Sure, but include citizens who visit or work in foreign countries as well.

  6. Make tax cuts fair!

  7. Great idea! Start with Homeland Security. And not invading foreign countries to settle a personal vendetta would save billions, too.

  8. No. Stop the abuses instead. More of the “if its broke don’t fix it, shitcan it entirely” mentality at work.