T Nation

Patriots or UnAmerican?

Opinions on these Drivers?
Patriots, or A-Holes not participating in our national security?
I’m conflicted because I see both sides of it.
We need the DHS IMO, we DON’T want to be attacked again, But are their tactics Constitutional?
The ‘dirty car’ line is comical BTW

Even if we assume the DHS is minimally effective at stopping anything. What have you won if you’ve become your enemy?

DHS should be disbanded. Patriot Act should go away.

Probably a hidden tape somewhere of the DHS greatest hits where they tune up some rubes smuggling rutabagas into Arizona.

Can’t believe we have let this happen in our country. Something about giving up freedom for security, and deserving neither…

Good video-I especially liked the part where possession of a refrigerator was declared probable cause to detain someone. The people could be described as patriots(definition: 1.A person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors.) if you believe, as I do, that The Constitution is more a part of this country than the whims of the government of the time. They could be descibed as un-American if you believe that America is just the mass of land that has been designated the United States, and the government controlling it at any given time.

[quote]groo wrote:
Even if we assume the DHS is minimally effective at stopping anything. What have you won if you’ve become your enemy?

DHS should be disbanded. Patriot Act should go away.

Probably a hidden tape somewhere of the DHS greatest hits where they tune up some rubes smuggling rutabagas into Arizona.[/quote]

What do you mean if you have become your own enemy?

I take that as someone who doesn’t respect or value their own rights…

I think you seem to take it as people who are messing with the law?

Question, what sort of justice is it when authorities count on you not knowing your own rights so they can take advantage of you? Is that the sort of country you like to live in? I don’t.

[quote]Severiano wrote:

[quote]groo wrote:
Even if we assume the DHS is minimally effective at stopping anything. What have you won if you’ve become your enemy?

DHS should be disbanded. Patriot Act should go away.

Probably a hidden tape somewhere of the DHS greatest hits where they tune up some rubes smuggling rutabagas into Arizona.[/quote]

What do you mean if you have become your own enemy?

I take that as someone who doesn’t respect or value their own rights…

I think you seem to take it as people who are messing with the law?

Question, what sort of justice is it when authorities count on you not knowing your own rights so they can take advantage of you? Is that the sort of country you like to live in? I don’t.[/quote]

I don’t think groo is saying what you think…I believe he is saying that even if you are safer, which we aren’t, what good is it when you are considered the threat and treated as such…Not going to speak for him, but I think he feels the same as you.

[quote]dk44 wrote:

[quote]Severiano wrote:

[quote]groo wrote:
Even if we assume the DHS is minimally effective at stopping anything. What have you won if you’ve become your enemy?

DHS should be disbanded. Patriot Act should go away.

Probably a hidden tape somewhere of the DHS greatest hits where they tune up some rubes smuggling rutabagas into Arizona.[/quote]

What do you mean if you have become your own enemy?

I take that as someone who doesn’t respect or value their own rights…

I think you seem to take it as people who are messing with the law?

Question, what sort of justice is it when authorities count on you not knowing your own rights so they can take advantage of you? Is that the sort of country you like to live in? I don’t.[/quote]

I don’t think groo is saying what you think…I believe he is saying that even if you are safer, which we aren’t, what good is it when you are considered the threat and treated as such…Not going to speak for him, but I think he feels the same as you. [/quote]

Agree, I think you miss-read groo’s post.

[quote]groo wrote:

DHS should be disbanded. Patriot Act should go away.

[/quote]

This.

Particularly given they do and did all the shit in the Patriot before they signed it anyway. Go back to lying about it.

I didn’t think I was being deceptive with the patriot act should be ended part.

just some good ole fashioned American BALL BUSTING

[quote]Karado wrote:
Opinions on these Drivers?
Patriots, or A-Holes not participating in our national security?
I’m conflicted because I see both sides of it.
We need the DHS IMO, we DON’T want to be attacked again, But are their tactics Constitutional?
The ‘dirty car’ line is comical BTW[/quote]

National Security is a myth. DHS is the physical embodiment of the phrase ‘Hard cases make bad law’.

It would be a more admirable display of the actions of free men if our bureaucracy weren’t so brainwashed/mentally handicapped and pusillanimous. It’s funny to watch the border automatons reach the ‘does not compute’ section of their programming, some even make the right choice.

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
just some good ole fashioned American BALL BUSTING [/quote]

I agree with you Pittbull.

Never thought of doing this. I wonder if having a camera keeps them from really going ape shit on these guys. Constitutionally they can not stop or detain me, unless there is suspicion. We need to have the house, senate, and the president get stopped like this. One either representative or senator was actually patted down in an airport by TSA. That person tried to get legislation to stop that shit.

[quote]groo wrote:
I didn’t think I was being deceptive with the patriot act should be ended part. [/quote]

I believe he is saying the Government should go back to lying about it.

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

[quote]groo wrote:
I didn’t think I was being deceptive with the patriot act should be ended part. [/quote]

I believe he is saying the Government should go back to lying about it.[/quote]

Correct. Sorry I was unclear.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]groo wrote:

DHS should be disbanded. Patriot Act should go away.

[/quote]

This.

Particularly given they do and did all the shit in the Patriot before they signed it anyway. Go back to lying about it. [/quote]

Agreed!
I realize that some ‘less than honorable’ activities may be required from time to time in the real world. I want the people conducting these actions looking over their shoulder the whole time. When a good guy is caught/charged/convicted behaving in an unconstitional manner for what can be argued as the ‘right reasons’ the President has the power to pardon them. The last thing we need is more immunity written into the law. Accountability begins with the people in authority and ‘trickles’ down from there.

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
Constitutionally they can not stop or detain me, unless there is suspicion.[/quote]

Over time they will redefine what qualifies as suspicion.

take a look at how ‘public use’ has been redifined for ‘imminent domain’ purposes over the last fifty years

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
Constitutionally they can not stop or detain me, unless there is suspicion.[/quote]

Over time they will redefine what qualifies as suspicion.

take a look at how ‘public use’ has been redifined for ‘imminent domain’ purposes over the last fifty years
[/quote]
That has already happened

It became “reasonable suspicion” instead of “probable cause”

As a Canadian can someone explain to me what these “checkpoints” are ? Are they at state borders ? Just randomly placed on the hwy ? what ?

[quote]tmay11 wrote:
As a Canadian can someone explain to me what these “checkpoints” are ? Are they at state borders ? Just randomly placed on the hwy ? what ?

[/quote]

They are 50 miles inside the boarder along major highways down by the Mexican boarder. I have family in McAllen, TX and have to drive through it coming home on hwy 59.

How do people leaving near these feel about them? ( Just in general)

How long have these been in place ?

Some of the videos are hilarious. Especially the first one and the very last one.