Pat Robinson on Young Earth Bullsh*t

[quote]kamui wrote:

[quote]ranengin wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Without a literal first man created by the hand of God before the presence of death, Jesus was a liar and there is no such thing as Christianity.[/quote]

And yet, the earth is billions of years old. What a dilemma you have.

[/quote]

Would you have felt compelled to say this if Tirib had wrote :
“Without a literal first man dreamed into existence by the Rainbow Serpent during the Dreamtime, our Ancestors were liars and the aboriginal culture is wholly worthless.” ?[/quote]

Of course not. It is much like those guys ranting about Black History Month while being completely blind to the fact that many other cultures already had their own month.

Christianity is the easy “you’re a moron who believes in Fairy Tales” target today. It doesn’t help that many Christians themselves also act about as superior and elitist as the people calling them idiots.

No, I do not believe the Earth is only 6,000 years old. I won’t sit an demand others believe the same…but it would be great if they could find legit excuse to ignore scientific findings as useless simply because they cause questions to arise.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say we should fear or run from knowledge…yet it seems that is exactly what many Christians are doing.

We are not in the Garden where knowledge of wrong is not balanced by knowledge of right. In this reality, they both go hand in hand.

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]JEATON wrote:
when I contemplate The Big Bang, the precision, beauty and total lack of chance, I could not imagine anything more Godly. I often wonder how many beautiful, bright, searching souls we turn away at the gates because we demand that they suspend the use of their beautiful God given minds and accept the "six day creation story."And please know that if anyone chooses to believe this story literal and not allegory that I have absolutely no problem with that as well. Until someone can convince me that either version can materially affect my ability to serve God by allowing him to serve others through me I refuse to allow it to be a point of contention. [/quote]

Very well said.[/quote]

Agreed, and I highlighted (in my view) Jeaton’s money quote. The greatest divine gift is reason - to forfeit it is to simply reject a gift from God.

How the “6,000 year old origin” thesis has achieved new prominence after being a dead letter for so long remains a mystery to me.

[quote]JEATON wrote:

This is the very issue that created a huge divide between Tiribulus and I. I lamented the fact that I thought a large number of people, including many intelligent young people, were turned off by the church vigorously forcing the creationist story as fact in spite of all the clear evidence that it was allegory. I still have problems with my church over this very issue. It is just plain silly. [/quote]

It is plain silly, because the Bible was never intended to be a science book, and to reduce to the level of a book on natural history is, frankly, an insult to the purpose of the Bible. As if the genius of a divine universe - with its complex organization and immaeasurable wonderment - was meant to be served up in a reductionist format (all that divine blueprint in a handful of pages in the text of the Bible) therefore eliminating the need for humans to use their divine gifts to engage in a vast inquiry into the laws of the universe.

You said it best. Plain silly.

Hmmm I guess I should have figured that it would be Tirib that held onto this view. Any others besides him? I would doubt it but there would be tons of Christians on this board that certainly have already had the view that ol’ Pat finally figured out.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]JEATON wrote:

This is the very issue that created a huge divide between Tiribulus and I. I lamented the fact that I thought a large number of people, including many intelligent young people, were turned off by the church vigorously forcing the creationist story as fact in spite of all the clear evidence that it was allegory. I still have problems with my church over this very issue. It is just plain silly. [/quote]

It is plain silly, because the Bible was never intended to be a science book, and to reduce to the level of a book on natural history is, frankly, an insult to the purpose of the Bible. As if the genius of a divine universe - with its complex organization and immaeasurable wonderment - was meant to be served up in a reductionist format (all that divine blueprint in a handful of pages in the text of the Bible) therefore eliminating the need for humans to use their divine gifts to engage in a vast inquiry into the laws of the universe.

You said it best. Plain silly.[/quote]Nobody ever said this , but I know you don’t wanna talk about it. Nobody who can claim Christ while denying the sinfulness of homosexuality would be equipped in any way to propose so much as 3 syllable of sound biblical truth. You’re in good company here though.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

Nobody ever said this , but I know you don’t wanna talk about it. Nobody who can claim Christ while denying the sinfulness of homosexuality would be equipped in any way to propose so much as 3 syllable of sound biblical truth. You’re in good company here though. [/quote]

I find your opinion to be about as useful as a one-legged mule, thanks anyway. I was talking to Smh23 and Jeaton.

[quote]storey420 wrote:
Hmmm I guess I should have figured that it would be Tirib that held onto this view. Any others besides him?.[/quote]

Tirib is not the only young earther on this board.

[quote]ranengin wrote:

[quote]storey420 wrote:
Hmmm I guess I should have figured that it would be Tirib that held onto this view. Any others besides him?.[/quote]

Tirib is not the only young earther on this board. [/quote]

Pushharder is another.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

Nobody ever said this , but I know you don’t wanna talk about it. Nobody who can claim Christ while denying the sinfulness of homosexuality would be equipped in any way to propose so much as 3 syllables of sound biblical truth. You’re in good company here though. [/quote]

I find your opinion to be about as useful as a one-legged mule, thanks anyway. I was talking to Smh23 and Jeaton.[/quote]How well I do understand.

[quote]Legionary wrote:

[quote]ranengin wrote:

[quote]storey420 wrote:
Hmmm I guess I should have figured that it would be Tirib that held onto this view. Any others besides him?.[/quote]

Tirib is not the only young earther on this board. [/quote]

Pushharder is another.[/quote]

Really? I find that hard to believe, he seems like a reasonably intelligent kinda guy and certainly isn’t an evangelical fundamentalist christian type

[quote]storey420 wrote:

[quote]Legionary wrote:

[quote]ranengin wrote:

[quote]storey420 wrote:
Hmmm I guess I should have figured that it would be Tirib that held onto this view. Any others besides him?.[/quote]

Tirib is not the only young earther on this board. [/quote]

Pushharder is another.[/quote]

Really? I find that hard to believe, he seems like a reasonably intelligent kinda guy and certainly isn’t an evangelical fundamentalist christian type[/quote]

He’s certainly intelligent. He just holds the Old Testament account of creation to be be literal.

[quote]storey420 wrote:

[quote]Legionary wrote:

[quote]ranengin wrote:

[quote]storey420 wrote:
Hmmm I guess I should have figured that it would be Tirib that held onto this view. Any others besides him?.[/quote]

Tirib is not the only young earther on this board. [/quote]

Pushharder is another.[/quote]

Really? I find that hard to believe, he seems like a reasonably intelligent kinda guy and certainly isn’t an evangelical fundamentalist christian type[/quote]

Check out this thread. It is old but good. I don’t recall if he ever actually comes out and says he is a YEC, but he seems to be. But I agree he is intelligent and actually worth talking to on here.

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/music_movies_girls_life/298_m_year_old_forest_found?id=5098845&pageNo=0

When I was doing graduate research in Geology and Geophysics, I was in the presence of mentors and colleagues who I knew were atheists, Southern Baptist, Catholic, Muslim, Jewish, Mormon, Lutheran and probably a bunch of other stuff I never knew or cared about.

All brilliant scientists.

None had a problem with the Earth being ‘billions’ of years old. In fact, some made their careers out of that exact science of dating some of the world’s oldest rocks and one in particular is one of the pioneers of Plate Tectonic Theory.

In the discussions over many beers, we typically all agreed that the ‘religion’ or belief in God, Allah, Jesus Christ, or Ralph the Cabbage (9999999 Internet points if someone knows that reference) had absolutely ZERO relationship to the science of studying the Earth and other planets.

The more people who agree on stuff like this, the less likely it is to be true. For Christians, by which I do not mean people who say “Jesus”, but those who have been actually born from death to life in the risen Christ, the Word of God is the final authority on anything it addresses. There are crystal clear evidences of that resurrection life in somebody’s walk, speech and practice when present. They are declared in scripture in impossible to misunderstand language. That life and that standard governs EVERYTHING they think, say or do. I can count on less than one hand the regulars around here for which that is even remotely true.

That said? I disagree, but I believe that old earth creationism is non fatal. You can be a Christian and believe the earth is old. You cannot be a Christian and believe in macro evolution. It is utterly destructive to the whole of the history of sin and redemption as revealed in the bible. “Christian” has a specific historic definition that is not subject to revision as modernist pagans see fit.

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]storey420 wrote:

[quote]Legionary wrote:

[quote]ranengin wrote:

[quote]storey420 wrote:
Hmmm I guess I should have figured that it would be Tirib that held onto this view. Any others besides him?.[/quote]

Tirib is not the only young earther on this board. [/quote]

Pushharder is another.[/quote]

Really? I find that hard to believe, he seems like a reasonably intelligent kinda guy and certainly isn’t an evangelical fundamentalist christian type[/quote]

Check out this thread. It is old but good. I don’t recall if he ever actually comes out and says he is a YEC, but he seems to be. But I agree he is intelligent and actually worth talking to on here.

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/music_movies_girls_life/298_m_year_old_forest_found?id=5098845&pageNo=0[/quote]

Pushharder if definitely a young earth creationist. Not a doubt about it.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
The more people who agree on stuff like this, the less likely it is to be true.[/quote]

Why do you say this Tir? After all, even the Church eventually moved from a geocentric concept of the universe to a heliocentric one after the evidence came to the point where their was no denying.

How does the amount of people who agree with ANYTHING change the value of its likelihood as truth? Unless you’re making some meta argument I’m not aware of.

[quote]smh23 wrote:
I think he’s a cretin, but good for him on this one.[/quote] but (SOME TIMES ) this guy is spot on

:slight_smile:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
The more people who agree on stuff like this, the less likely it is to be true.[/quote]

Why do you say this Tir? After all, even the Church eventually moved from a geocentric concept of the universe to a heliocentric one after the evidence came to the point where their was no denying.

How does the amount of people who agree with ANYTHING change the value of its likelihood as truth? Unless you’re making some meta argument I’m not aware of. [/quote]A heliocentric or geocentric view of the universe carries no moral content nor does either have any bearing on any essential bible doctrine. Men hate God. The ones who deny that hate Him most of all. They will come to absolutely ANY conclusion that they think allows themselves escape from moral accountability to Him. “Brilliant scientists” are the very last people on earth I would go to for truth on any subject that attempts to address questions that the bible has already answered. They are by far the most eminently qualified for the most spectacular error. I see it constantly.
I don’t enjoy it, but I fully expect to be ridiculed and laughed off as a kooky simpleton by 99.9% of the people I meet. Especially in a place like T-Nation. I expect it because Jesus and His scripture writers told me to expect. Popularity on a website like this is a guarantee of one’s wrongness with the Lord at very best. Christians, that would be people who actually live their lives like they take their bible seriously, have historically always known this and still do.

My only criteria for anything I say here is whether it is in obedience to my God or not as evinced by it’s conformity to His Word. How anybody responds is not my problem. It’s God’s problem. Like any Christian, I’m just a messenger. I’m quite prepared for the inevitable response to this, but it will probably have to wait until morning.

Bottom line? If I am to take my bible seriously, the overwhelmingly vast majority of the people in a society like ours will believe literally anything before the truth, with the intelligent and educated being among the least likely, but religious people being least likely of all. IF you take your bible seriously which almost nobody does. Especially people calling themselves Christians today.