T Nation

Palmeiro Suspended

Needless to say, this is the highest profile person to be suspended under the new MLB steroid policy (and interesting to see it coming so shortly after getting his 3,000th hit).

What is astonishing is the fact that his statement is: “I have never intentionally used steroids. Never. Ever. Period… Ultimately, although I never intentionally put a banned substance into my body, the independent arbitrator ruled that I had to be suspended under the terms of the program.”

This begs more than a few questions. How can you [i]unintentionally[/i] violate the policy? I am not 100% on every nook and cranny of what falls under the banned list besides steroids and pro-hormones (although it’s basically a poorly kept secret that the abuse of amphetamines is really the biggest drug problem in baseball). What exactly did the test show? Proof positive of a banned substance or just higher than normal testosterone levels?

Curious on everyone’s thoughts.

I still remember his congressional hearing, where he repeatedly said he did not take any steroids and doesnt know of anyone who has.

This is going to be a messy situation.

They’re already talking about the chance that he perjured himself in front of congress…

I don’t fault him for whatever he takes. I fault him for lying in front of Congress.

McGwire is the only one that told the truth and everyone made fun of him.

That’s his statement now. When Canseco accused him in his book, his statement was something to the effect of “I’ve never used them, period.”

I’ve no problem particularly with steroids in pro sports, but he shouldn’t have issued a blanket denial if it wasn’t true.

At this stage of the game, any athlete who tests positive for steroids or other banned performance-enhancing drugs deserves what they get. If you’re too stupid to know what’s going on, hire some handlers that do. Ignorance is no excuse.

I’m really disappointed. He was one of the guys that I honestly believed when he said he never did steroids. I think this has totally ruined his chances of anyone believing him again. Man, people were talking about how he didn’t deserve the hall of fame before! Now what? I thought he deserved it with his milestones, but now that we find out he used steroids…I’m not sure.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
McGwire is the only one that told the truth and everyone made fun of him.[/quote]

Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t remember McGuire admitting to anything.

Now that prohormones are banned, I wonder what he’ll blame for this ‘accidental’ steroid ingestion? Ten bucks says that legal supplements will somehow take a hit here.

I am a little suprised, because if he used steroids I would have thought he’d actually have some noticable muscle mass to show for it.

And I had just gotten used to the idea that he deserved to get into the hall of fame. Now-he’s out in my book.

what compound did he test positive for?

[quote]mertdawg wrote:
I am a little suprised, because if he used steroids I would have thought he’d actually have some noticable muscle mass to show for it.
[/quote]

It’s a myth that an athlete always gets huge when he’s on juice. They can use smaller amounts, use certain kinds of steroids, just eat less, or train more for strength than hypertrophy. Just look at all the weight classed athletes who use steroids. Or maybe he just hadn’t been using for long.

[quote]mertdawg wrote:
I am a little suprised, because if he used steroids I would have thought he’d actually have some noticable muscle mass to show for it.

And I had just gotten used to the idea that he deserved to get into the hall of fame. Now-he’s out in my book.[/quote]

Why shouldn’t he be allowed in? Because of steroid use?

Steroid use shouldn’t necessitate getting in or not. Almost all professional and Olympic athletes are/have been using steroids to gain a competitive edge. I don’t think it matters if he or anyone else is using.

If they work, then by all means, make it fair and let anyone use them if they want to.

Palmeiro also denied that he used steroids on February 9th, 2005.

“I categorically deny any assertion made by Jose Canseco that I used steroids,” Palmeiro said in a statement. “At no point in my career have I ever used steroids, let alone any substance banned by Major League Baseball. As I have never had a personal relationship with Canseco, any suggestion that he taught me anything, about steroid use or otherwise, is ludicrous.”

“We were teammates and that was the extent of our relationship. I am saddened that he felt it necessary to attempt to tarnish my image and that of the game that I love.”

Orioles owner Peter Angelos defended Palmeiro.

“The Orioles are solidly behind Rafael Palmeiro and have absolute confidence in him and in his denial of the Canseco story,” Angelos said in a statement. “The Orioles will do everything we can to be of assistance to Raffy in meeting these allegations that have no foundation.”

Angelos joined others in questioning Canseco’s integrity and motivation in writing the book. “To suggest, as Canseco allegedly does, that President Bush, as the Texas Rangers managing partner in the early 1990s ‘must have known about the steroid use on that team’ is a desperate ploy to sell a book,” Angelos said. “What credibility does such a person deserve?”

Well, steroid use shouldn’t limit hall of fame eligibility, but the fact that he lied about it, and the way he lied about it, makes me respect him much less. I believe he said something along the lines of I have never taken steroids, period. Maybe if he would have admitted to taking them, even if he said on accident, I would have had atleast some respect left for him.

[quote]trailer36 wrote:
what compound did he test positive for?[/quote]

Bear in mind that most test don’t actually test for the “substace” itself, rather elevated levels of hormones in the body or out of balance ratios of the natural hormones in the body. For example- Testosterone. A failed test must be greater than 4x the “normal” T count OR greater than 400% of T to Estrogen ratio.

So I ask “What is normal?”. I know that the “normal” spectrum of Testosterone count is pretty broad. So, to me, it would stand to reason that one could be at the high end of the normal spectrum on T AND at the low end on E and fail the test due to ratios, correct?

Most people on this forum (that aren’t “juicing”) would probably fail these tests, as we tend to try to raise endogenous T production and suppress E through diet and supplementation (M and Alpha Male, perhaps?).

I would think, however, that high profile athletes like Palmeiro would be on top of this and take measures to insure that they remain in the safe “window” of hormone balance.

Either that, or he was juicing…

doesn’t bother me personally, even his denial. and i do think it’s very possible for a pro athlete at his level not to know everything he’s on, but that’s his business. if he lied it doesn’t bothter me. he’s not my brother or my friend and he’s not lying about anything that matters to me. it’s a game. the whole idea is to gain advantage and not let the other guy know it “GOSHHHH!” -n.dynamite

that being said even if he’s totally guilty he should still make the hall of fame cause he was still one of the best of his time and as we know his time was full of juice so what’s not fair about that ? put him in the hall and bring on tomorrow.

ps- manny frickn rules !

[quote]Nate Dogg wrote:
mertdawg wrote:
I am a little suprised, because if he used steroids I would have thought he’d actually have some noticable muscle mass to show for it.

And I had just gotten used to the idea that he deserved to get into the hall of fame. Now-he’s out in my book.

Why shouldn’t he be allowed in? Because of steroid use?

Steroid use shouldn’t necessitate getting in or not. Almost all professional and Olympic athletes are/have been using steroids to gain a competitive edge. I don’t think it matters if he or anyone else is using.

If they work, then by all means, make it fair and let anyone use them if they want to.
[/quote]

Because it’s against the rules of baseball. We now have a rule designed to protect players from having to use steroids to be competitive-A rule that they wanted so they could play the game without having to use. And in his case, what caught my attention as far as getting him in to the hall was 9 straight years with 38+ homeruns. Hank Aaron had 8 total 40 homerun seasons in his career (tied for second behid Ruth with 11).

Over a 9 year period, Palmero was a grand total of 7 homeruns shy of 9 consecutive 40 hr years with 39, 39, 38, 43, 47, 39, 47, 43, 38. (in fact, I think its a record for consecutive 35+ homerun seasons.) Now I get the feeling he would have been retired a good 4-5 years ago. No 3000/500, maybe 2400/400.

[quote]Nate Dogg wrote:
mertdawg wrote:
I am a little suprised, because if he used steroids I would have thought he’d actually have some noticable muscle mass to show for it.

And I had just gotten used to the idea that he deserved to get into the hall of fame. Now-he’s out in my book.

Why shouldn’t he be allowed in? Because of steroid use?

Steroid use shouldn’t necessitate getting in or not. Almost all professional and Olympic athletes are/have been using steroids to gain a competitive edge. I don’t think it matters if he or anyone else is using.

If they work, then by all means, make it fair and let anyone use them if they want to.

[/quote]

Based on your rationale, it could be argued that the playing field is level because of the widespread prevalence of steroid use. But what about top level athletes who haven’t used? There are surely a few. What about their accomplishments? How to measure them? And professional sports seem to be cleaning up their act, at least to a degree.

The prevalence of steroids poses a problem for evaluating future records and performance if we can succesfully clean up sports. How are we supposed to know the measure of future greats when they are being compared to tainted standards? It’s a problem. Whichever way you look at it, there will be a lot of problems.

[quote]swivel wrote:
doesn’t bother me personally, even his denial. and i do think it’s very possible for a pro athlete at his level not to know everything he’s on, but that’s his business. if he lied it doesn’t bothter me. he’s not my brother or my friend and he’s not lying about anything that matters to me. it’s a game. the whole idea is to gain advantage and not let the other guy know it “GOSHHHH!” -n.dynamite

that being said even if he’s totally guilty he should still make the hall of fame cause he was still one of the best of his time and as we know his time was full of juice so what’s not fair about that ? put him in the hall and bring on tomorrow.

ps- manny frickn rules ![/quote]

That’s my point. After Balco and everything that’s happened, you have to be borderline retarded not to ask your trainers and handlers what each and every ‘supplement’ they have you on actually is. You deserve what you get if not. I have mixed feelings about the past records and performances. On the one hand, I’m tempted to say they are invalid because of steroid use because who knows what kind of players they would’ve been naturally.

On the other hand, there are surely both mediocre players and other top level players who also used steroids and were not discovered. I think there should be a cutoff in every sport. An announcement that the records and performances of athletes who test positive for steroid use will be deemed invalid from this point forward. And a second offense = being banned from that sport. We either really clean it up, which I support. Or we don’t and shut up about it and stop whining and bitching.