T Nation

Painless Enanthate

For those that brew, I’m curious about your test enanthate (or other test esters) recipies. I’ve tried pretty much anything and can’t seem to get truly painless test. I’ve made a batch or two that was pretty smooth in the past, but didn’t save the formula.

The last batch I made of enanthate was 250mg/ml dissolved in just 1% BA and sesame oil, which is pretty smooth, but not completely painless. I also have a batch of 20% BB and 1% BB, which hurts a bit more than the previous formula. The only thing I’ve made completely painless is tren at 100mg/ml, to the same specifications as the above two formulas.

People have said pain is due to the steroid crystals reforming in the muslce, some say it’s the BA, some say too much BB can cause pain. At the same time, I’ve heard that BB acts as a cosolvent to keep the crytstals in solution longer in the oil after injected, resulting in less pain.

I’ve only been brewing casually (for my own use) for about two years. I’ve used some “exotic” solvents such as guaiacol, but didn’t like the way it caused knots in the muscle. Apparently it’s used in prolotherapy to cause increased structural protein synthesis at the site of injection, used to strengthen weakened tendons, etc. I’ve heard ethyl oleate is great for making painless gear. If anyone wishes to share their recipies for painless gear I’d appreciate it much.

I have had the same problem over the last year or so, although I have decidedly more pain with test prop and tren than I do with enanthate, masteron, or deca.

I have always used 2% BA and 20% BB, and am going to go back to only 1% BA next time around.

I will also be using Ethyl Oleate at about 50/50 with grapeseed oil.

[quote]Schwarzenegger wrote:
For those that brew, I’m curious about your test enanthate (or other test esters) recipies. I’ve tried pretty much anything and can’t seem to get truly painless test. I’ve made a batch or two that was pretty smooth in the past, but didn’t save the formula.

The last batch I made of enanthate was 250mg/ml dissolved in just 1% BA and sesame oil, which is pretty smooth, but not completely painless. I also have a batch of 20% BB and 1% BB, which hurts a bit more than the previous formula. The only thing I’ve made completely painless is tren at 100mg/ml, to the same specifications as the above two formulas.

People have said pain is due to the steroid crystals reforming in the muslce, some say it’s the BA, some say too much BB can cause pain. At the same time, I’ve heard that BB acts as a cosolvent to keep the crytstals in solution longer in the oil after injected, resulting in less pain.

I’ve only been brewing casually (for my own use) for about two years. I’ve used some “exotic” solvents such as guaiacol, but didn’t like the way it caused knots in the muscle. Apparently it’s used in prolotherapy to cause increased structural protein synthesis at the site of injection, used to strengthen weakened tendons, etc. I’ve heard ethyl oleate is great for making painless gear. If anyone wishes to share their recipies for painless gear I’d appreciate it much.[/quote]

How does one differentiate between the compound been irritating and the pain of larger injection volumes causing physical damage? If you use an #18 needle perhaps you will not notice the pain of the dose :wink:

I use 25g needles, and the pain is directly related to the amount injected. I put 1ml in my glute two days ago and it doesn’t hurt so much as it feels like a bruise. If I go 2-2.5ml the pain is much more pronounced. I know it’s not the volume itself of injection causing the pain as I have injected other solutions up to 3ml and have not experienced pain with them.

[quote]KSman wrote:
How does one differentiate between the compound been irritating and the pain of larger injection volumes causing physical damage? If you use an #18 needle perhaps you will not notice the pain of the dose ;)[/quote]

You can tell the difference. I never inject more than 2.5cc into my glutes - so there is really no danger of too much volume.

The pain doesn’t really start until the next day, or the day after, but it can get intense and last for several days.

With test enan…2% BA and 15% BB for anything up to 350 mg/ml will do the trick.

Enan barely needs BB. Concentrations 250 mg/ml and below will hold with 2/10. Obviously, the higher you go, the more BB you need.

Sup Shwartz? How you been?

I think, the problem actually is low BA/BB amounts. I know people who do it on a regular basis. They claim that crystalization is the major cause of a delayed pain. They use 5%/15% BA/BB for Test E(300 mg/ml) and 4%/20% for Tren E(200 mg/ml). A recent batch of Tren E (250 mg/ml) prepared with 5/15 ratio made my friend limp for few days after each shot. He also said that injection site had swellings the size of a baseball.

[quote]nreviya wrote:
I think, the problem actually is low BA/BB amounts. I know people who do it on a regular basis. They claim that crystalization is the major cause of a delayed pain. They use 5%/15% BA/BB for Test E(300 mg/ml) and 4%/20% for Tren E(200 mg/ml). A recent batch of Tren E (250 mg/ml) prepared with 5/15 ratio made my friend limp for few days after each shot. He also said that injection site had swellings the size of a baseball.[/quote]

with 5% BA…no wonder the shot has an after bite…2% is standard.

[quote]juice20jd wrote:
nreviya wrote:
I think, the problem actually is low BA/BB amounts. I know people who do it on a regular basis. They claim that crystalization is the major cause of a delayed pain. They use 5%/15% BA/BB for Test E(300 mg/ml) and 4%/20% for Tren E(200 mg/ml). A recent batch of Tren E (250 mg/ml) prepared with 5/15 ratio made my friend limp for few days after each shot. He also said that injection site had swellings the size of a baseball.

with 5% BA…no wonder the shot has an after bite…2% is standard.

[/quote]

But he claims that 5%/15% Test E (300mg/ml) is absolutely painless. It makes me wonder why. Maybe Tren E should not be made in high concentartions (no more lets say 100mg/ml)?

[quote]nreviya wrote:
juice20jd wrote:
nreviya wrote:
I think, the problem actually is low BA/BB amounts. I know people who do it on a regular basis. They claim that crystalization is the major cause of a delayed pain. They use 5%/15% BA/BB for Test E(300 mg/ml) and 4%/20% for Tren E(200 mg/ml). A recent batch of Tren E (250 mg/ml) prepared with 5/15 ratio made my friend limp for few days after each shot. He also said that injection site had swellings the size of a baseball.

with 5% BA…no wonder the shot has an after bite…2% is standard.

But he claims that 5%/15% Test E (300mg/ml) is absolutely painless. It makes me wonder why. Maybe Tren E should not be made in high concentartions (no more lets say 100mg/ml)?[/quote]

I have never heard of anyone using 5% BA.

If you were to make enanthate at 100mg/ml - you would have to shoot huge volumes of oil. That’s not a good thing either.

There’s a balance somewhere between conventrations of gear per ml, BA levels, and injection pain.

I have no idea where that balance is - but it’s in there somewhere.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
There’s a balance somewhere between conventrations of gear per ml, BA levels, and injection pain.

I have no idea where that balance is - but it’s in there somewhere. [/quote]

for test enanthate it is around 200mg/mL usually, 250 will hurt for those it bothers a lot more than 200.

I’m making another batch of enanthate this weekend. I’ll try 200mg/ml and make a couple different concentrations of BA/BB. I’ll let you know if I find anything interesting.

i find at 200mg/mL you only need BA to keep it sterile, not to keep it in solution. it should stay with the BB alone. just use at least 15% BB, you should be good.

[quote]ubl0 wrote:
i find at 200mg/mL you only need BA to keep it sterile, not to keep it in solution. it should stay with the BB alone. just use at least 15% BB, you should be good.[/quote]

I can actually get the enanthate powder to dissolve in sesame oil alone at 250mg/ml. The last batch I made I did just this, and I added about 1.5% BA to keep it sterile. It still caused a fair amount of pain. I’m thinking it has more to do with the concentration, so I’m going to try 200mg/ml, and if that fails then mess around with various BB concentrations.

[quote]ubl0 wrote:
i find at 200mg/mL you only need BA to keep it sterile, not to keep it in solution. it should stay with the BB alone. just use at least 15% BB, you should be good.[/quote]

This makes no sense to me. You have to add BA as bacteriostatic agent. BB is a solvent, not a bacteriostat.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
ubl0 wrote:
i find at 200mg/mL you only need BA to keep it sterile, not to keep it in solution. it should stay with the BB alone. just use at least 15% BB, you should be good.

This makes no sense to me. You have to add BA as bacteriostatic agent. BB is a solvent, not a bacteriostat. [/quote]

i see how that could be ambiguous. allow me to try again:

at concentrations of 200mg/mL there is no need to use more than the minimum BA required as a bacteriostatic agent. often brewers add BA to keep high concentrations in solution or because they are too cheap to buy BB. in this case it is not required as the enanthate will usually stay on its own, but i would still use 15% BB in addition to 1.5% BA.

PS: i realize that RJ knows all this, just trying to make my statements clearer.

PPS: i just put my third shot of 200mg/mL test enanthate in my ass, can’t feel a thing from any of them, just as smooth as eq.

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Now - how does the home brewed concentrations change if you mix your oil with EO at say a 50/50 blend?

That is what I will be doing the next time I fire up the home brew factory.

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