Pacquiao Cotto 24-7

Bigger Stronger Leaner
21

[quote]cutthoat25 wrote:
djaziatic wrote:
Id like to see Pacquiao beat Cotto and then beat Mayweather.

wont beat mayweather…mayweather is stronger, more skilled, and while pac is fast as fuck, money is still faster and WAY more fluid in his movements. also pac has never seen defense like money’s, pac is used to his opponents coming right at him and taking his barage of punches, money dont play that shit. even if they go toe ta toe i think MAY can take PAC (which i hope to see the speed between these 2). im not saying pac sux, i like him alot …i just like floyds ring savy and athleticism more.
[/quote]

Exactly. Pacquiao and Marquez were neck and neck in their two fights, and I had Marquez winning both of them.

While Pac is much improved, he’s not anywhere near Mayweather’s level. The chances of him landing meaningful shots are little. Mayweather fought DLH at 154 and DLH wasn’t even close to hurting him.

Mayweather will demolish Pac, possibly knock him out.

22

With that logic Pac should kick Moneys ass because he demolished Hatton and Oscar.

23

Pac’s not just powerful “for his size”. He’s got power period. He’s brought the power with him every in every weight class. He knocked down Shawn Porter, an undefeated light middleweight, in sparring (headgear on), so it could definitely happen against Cotto.

Also I should have been more clear that I believe Pac can TKO Cotto (doesn’t have to be a straight KO).

24

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
goldengloves wrote:

His trainers threw in the towel, but that fight was pretty even. If he can take shots from a fighter using illegal wraps and not get knocked out, and hasn’t been knocked out his whole career, Manny definitely isn’t going to KO him. Getting knocked down and getting knocked out is completely different.

Exactly. I give him credit for doing it, but he’s not going to beat full size welterweights. Roach knows this, and that’s why he wouldn’t let Cotto come in at 147.

This is another cath 22 for Pac though- if he wins, it could easily be said that the last two pounds killed Cotto , and Roach will be accused of making fighters dry out to skeletons to fight Pac. If he loses, he loses.

There is a chance of a TKO, but a KO is very, very doubtful. [/quote]

There you go Irish, showing your Pac hatred. If Pac should beat Cotto, you’ve got your excuse ready. I’m surprised you didn’t have an excuse when Pac destroyed and retired your boy, Hatton. At least Pac is taking the chance and fighting bigger opponents. And Roach is a smart man giving Pac every opportunity to have the upper hand against other fighters, that’s what you’re supposed to do, look after your money cow. If Cotto didn’t want to drop the weight, he could’ve fought Maywweather, but he probably knew that wouldn’t happen so he took the guaranteed money in Pac.

Pac is definitly not on Mayweathers level, but who is. But lets see Mayweather fight someone who’s a legitamate welterweight, Mosley or Williams. I don’t see it happening because there’s a chance of Floyd losing and he knows that.

25

[quote]drewh wrote:
With that logic Pac should kick Moneys ass because he demolished Hatton and Oscar. [/quote]

Not really. They’re different fighters, and neither (at the time they fought Pac) were the caliber of Marquez.

26

[quote]fnf wrote:

There you go Irish, showing your Pac hatred.
[/quote]

I don’t hate him. I’m just calling a spade a spade. Since moving up, he’s fought one good, still in his prime fighter, and that was Hatton. Diaz was shit, and DLH was a bag of bones. It takes more than that to impress me, I’m sorry.

Not at all. If Cotto comes in drained, then yes, the excuse will be valid, just like it was with DLH. I don’t see how anyone can say that Pacquaio gets full credit for beating up an old, near dead Oscar. That’s like saying that Marciano is the best heavyweight because he beat Joe Louis.

How could I? The styles were a good matchup, and Pac is a better fighter. That’s the only win that I really give him credit for in the last couple years.

Agreed. The guy will fight anyone, and I give him credit for that.

[quote]
And Roach is a smart man giving Pac every opportunity to have the upper hand against other fighters, that’s what you’re supposed to do, look after your money cow.
[/quote]]

Fine. But don’t get mad when I say that DLH was a fight I’m not going to give him credit for then. And if Cotto comes in at 145 and that’s clearly the reason Pac wins, as in the Oscar fight, I’m going to have a hard time saying that Pac is really better than him.

Pac is also the ass that wanted the welterweight belt on the line, even though dicksmack roach won’t go to the welterweight limit. Con men, plain and simple.

You got it.

[quote]
Pac is definitly not on Mayweathers level, but who is. But lets see Mayweather fight someone who’s a legitamate welterweight, Mosley or Williams. I don’t see it happening because there’s a chance of Floyd losing and he knows that.[/quote]

I completely agree with you. Those that actually know me on this board know that although I fiercely admire Mayweather, he stopped fighting guys his size a long time ago.

27

This will go down as the best fight of the year.

Should be a controversial decision to whoever wins.

I’m leaning slightly towards Cotto, got that look in his eyes.

28

If Cotto didn’t want to drop the weight, he could’ve fought Maywweather, but he probably knew that wouldn’t happen so he took the guaranteed money in Pac.

You got it.

As I recall Mayweather was retired at the time.

29

You never know what a beating like he took against Margarito will do to a guy, look at Margarito-Mosley. A KO is not out of the question but a standing TKO or stoppage from cuts is more likely. If both guys come in ready it’s tough to call. Cotto is slower and not real elusive plus he will stand in front of Pacquiao, but he has beaten faster more busy fighters before.

30

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
fnf wrote:

There you go Irish, showing your Pac hatred.

I don’t hate him. I’m just calling a spade a spade. Since moving up, he’s fought one good, still in his prime fighter, and that was Hatton. Diaz was shit, and DLH was a bag of bones. It takes more than that to impress me, I’m sorry.

If Pac should beat Cotto, you’ve got your excuse ready.

Not at all. If Cotto comes in drained, then yes, the excuse will be valid, just like it was with DLH. I don’t see how anyone can say that Pacquaio gets full credit for beating up an old, near dead Oscar. That’s like saying that Marciano is the best heavyweight because he beat Joe Louis.

I’m surprised you didn’t have an excuse when Pac destroyed and retired your boy, Hatton.

How could I? The styles were a good matchup, and Pac is a better fighter. That’s the only win that I really give him credit for in the last couple years.

At least Pac is taking the chance and fighting bigger opponents.

Agreed. The guy will fight anyone, and I give him credit for that.

And Roach is a smart man giving Pac every opportunity to have the upper hand against other fighters, that’s what you’re supposed to do, look after your money cow.
]

Fine. But don’t get mad when I say that DLH was a fight I’m not going to give him credit for then. And if Cotto comes in at 145 and that’s clearly the reason Pac wins, as in the Oscar fight, I’m going to have a hard time saying that Pac is really better than him.

Pac is also the ass that wanted the welterweight belt on the line, even though dicksmack roach won’t go to the welterweight limit. Con men, plain and simple.

If Cotto didn’t want to drop the weight, he could’ve fought Maywweather, but he probably knew that wouldn’t happen so he took the guaranteed money in Pac.

You got it.

Pac is definitly not on Mayweathers level, but who is. But lets see Mayweather fight someone who’s a legitamate welterweight, Mosley or Williams. I don’t see it happening because there’s a chance of Floyd losing and he knows that.

I completely agree with you. Those that actually know me on this board know that although I fiercely admire Mayweather, he stopped fighting guys his size a long time ago.
[/quote]

As I recall, the only reason why Roach took the fight with DLH was because he knew DLH couldn’t pull the trigger anymore. Obviously DLH in his prime would beat Pac.

But if he does beat Cotto, I’ll give Pac credit for the win, because Cotto easily could have said no to the catch weight as Mosley did.

31

[quote]B-Mac13 wrote:

I’m leaning slightly towards Cotto, got that look in his eyes.[/quote]

i get that same feeling from watching the 24/7 episodes…so far

32

[quote]Pretzel Logic wrote:
You never know what a beating like he took against Margarito will do to a guy, look at Margarito-Mosley. A KO is not out of the question but a standing TKO or stoppage from cuts is more likely. If both guys come in ready it’s tough to call. Cotto is slower and not real elusive plus he will stand in front of Pacquiao, but he has beaten faster more busy fighters before. [/quote]

I agree. Pac is not faster than Zab Judah or Mosely, and he doesn’t hit harder than Margarito or Mosley.

33

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

I agree. Pac is not faster than Zab Judah or Mosely, and he doesn’t hit harder than Margarito or Mosley.

[/quote]
i also agree, BUT i think pac’s HAND SPEED is faster than zab, maybe (= or <) mosley, mosley is probably closest to mayweathers speed in terms of hands and footwork

34

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Pretzel Logic wrote:
You never know what a beating like he took against Margarito will do to a guy, look at Margarito-Mosley. A KO is not out of the question but a standing TKO or stoppage from cuts is more likely. If both guys come in ready it’s tough to call. Cotto is slower and not real elusive plus he will stand in front of Pacquiao, but he has beaten faster more busy fighters before.

I agree. Pac is not faster than Zab Judah or Mosely, and he doesn’t hit harder than Margarito or Mosley.

[/quote]\

Hopkins a few months ago on ESPN said Pac is faster than Zab and possibly faster than Mayweather. I tend to agree with him more than you, Irish. But May is much more accurate than Pac.
When Pac fights a natural welterweight, he’ll possibly come in at 147-149. The natural welterweights will come in at 155+. Add that to their reach and strength, Pac will always be at a hitting disadvantage, but Pac will always have a speed advantage.

35

[quote]fnf wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Pretzel Logic wrote:
You never know what a beating like he took against Margarito will do to a guy, look at Margarito-Mosley. A KO is not out of the question but a standing TKO or stoppage from cuts is more likely. If both guys come in ready it’s tough to call. Cotto is slower and not real elusive plus he will stand in front of Pacquiao, but he has beaten faster more busy fighters before.

I agree. Pac is not faster than Zab Judah or Mosely, and he doesn’t hit harder than Margarito or Mosley.

\

Hopkins a few months ago on ESPN said Pac is faster than Zab and possibly faster than Mayweather. I tend to agree with him more than you, Irish. But May is much more accurate than Pac.
When Pac fights a natural welterweight, he’ll possibly come in at 147-149. The natural welterweights will come in at 155+. Add that to their reach and strength, Pac will always be at a hitting disadvantage, but Pac will always have a speed advantage.

[/quote]ok not trying to start shit with u, but since when is hopkins the authority on boxing talent? he himself was a good fighter, but that doesnt make him a good judge of talent. i dont think manny is anywhere near as fast as floyd, but who the hell am I to judge talent? lol…if pac gets past cotto we will get see both may and pac in the ring, then we can judge there hand speed, movement and footwork

36

[quote]fnf wrote:

Hopkins a few months ago on ESPN said Pac is faster than Zab and possibly faster than Mayweather. I tend to agree with him more than you, Irish. But May is much more accurate than Pac.
When Pac fights a natural welterweight, he’ll possibly come in at 147-149. The natural welterweights will come in at 155+. Add that to their reach and strength, Pac will always be at a hitting disadvantage, but Pac will always have a speed advantage.

[/quote]

Hopkins is only watching these guys, just as you or I are. If he told me that CAlzaghe was faster than Pavlik, I would say that he, of all people, could say that, but judging the hand speed of light welterweights is as subjective for him as anyone else.

Speed is also useless without timing. Mayweather is masterful at both of those.

37

[quote]cutthoat25 wrote:
fnf wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Pretzel Logic wrote:
You never know what a beating like he took against Margarito will do to a guy, look at Margarito-Mosley. A KO is not out of the question but a standing TKO or stoppage from cuts is more likely. If both guys come in ready it’s tough to call. Cotto is slower and not real elusive plus he will stand in front of Pacquiao, but he has beaten faster more busy fighters before.

I agree. Pac is not faster than Zab Judah or Mosely, and he doesn’t hit harder than Margarito or Mosley.

\

Hopkins a few months ago on ESPN said Pac is faster than Zab and possibly faster than Mayweather. I tend to agree with him more than you, Irish. But May is much more accurate than Pac.
When Pac fights a natural welterweight, he’ll possibly come in at 147-149. The natural welterweights will come in at 155+. Add that to their reach and strength, Pac will always be at a hitting disadvantage, but Pac will always have a speed advantage.

ok not trying to start shit with u, but since when is hopkins the authority on boxing talent? he himself was a good fighter, but that doesnt make him a good judge of talent. i dont think manny is anywhere near as fast as floyd, but who the hell am I to judge talent? lol…if pac gets past cotto we will get see both may and pac in the ring, then we can judge there hand speed, movement and footwork

[/quote]

I know Hopkins isn’t the gospel, I’m just throwing out names on what people said of other fighters. I do believe Pac is faster than Zab but not Mayweather because of Mays accuracy and timing.

Now I’ve been following May since the beginning of his career and before Pacquiao. And to me, RJJ and May are the most gifted fighters I’ve ever seen. They do things that can’t be taught, and there’s no need to mention any of it if you’ve followed their careers.

Do I want to see May fight Pac? Yes and no. It would be an exciting fight but I don’t want to see Pac lose, and it does nothing for Mays legacy. The last 3 fights of Mays have been smaller opponents. It’s time for May to fight opponents his size and not blown up lightweights. But the almighty $$ will have him fight Pac, if Pac can get past Cotto.

38

[quote]fnf wrote:
cutthoat25 wrote:
fnf wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Pretzel Logic wrote:
You never know what a beating like he took against Margarito will do to a guy, look at Margarito-Mosley. A KO is not out of the question but a standing TKO or stoppage from cuts is more likely. If both guys come in ready it’s tough to call. Cotto is slower and not real elusive plus he will stand in front of Pacquiao, but he has beaten faster more busy fighters before.

I agree. Pac is not faster than Zab Judah or Mosely, and he doesn’t hit harder than Margarito or Mosley.

\

Hopkins a few months ago on ESPN said Pac is faster than Zab and possibly faster than Mayweather. I tend to agree with him more than you, Irish. But May is much more accurate than Pac.
When Pac fights a natural welterweight, he’ll possibly come in at 147-149. The natural welterweights will come in at 155+. Add that to their reach and strength, Pac will always be at a hitting disadvantage, but Pac will always have a speed advantage.

ok not trying to start shit with u, but since when is hopkins the authority on boxing talent? he himself was a good fighter, but that doesnt make him a good judge of talent. i dont think manny is anywhere near as fast as floyd, but who the hell am I to judge talent? lol…if pac gets past cotto we will get see both may and pac in the ring, then we can judge there hand speed, movement and footwork

I know Hopkins isn’t the gospel, I’m just throwing out names on what people said of other fighters. I do believe Pac is faster than Zab but not Mayweather because of Mays accuracy and timing.

Now I’ve been following May since the beginning of his career and before Pacquiao. And to me, RJJ and May are the most gifted fighters I’ve ever seen. They do things that can’t be taught, and there’s no need to mention any of it if you’ve followed their careers.

Do I want to see May fight Pac? Yes and no. It would be an exciting fight but I don’t want to see Pac lose, and it does nothing for Mays legacy. The last 3 fights of Mays have been smaller opponents. It’s time for May to fight opponents his size and not blown up lightweights. But the almighty $$ will have him fight Pac, if Pac can get past Cotto.[/quote]

agreed…u just layed it all out right here…but how ginormous would that fight between pac and money be? pac wont let money play D and pic him apart…pac will press him and has enough speed to make mayweather stay on his toes…floyd will be forced to trade with pac…but again i think mays ability and natural ring generalship will take over the fight

39

however if this fight does take place, i wouldnt be surprised if manny pac wins…shit pac has enough ability to beat Mayweather DECISIVELY…but floyd would have to have an off night. A narrow victory, draw or knockout is possible for Manny under any condition though. imo

40

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

Hopkins is only watching these guys, just as you or I are. If he told me that CAlzaghe was faster than Pavlik, I would say that he, of all people, could say that, but judging the hand speed of light welterweights is as subjective for him as anyone else.

Speed is also useless without timing. Mayweather is masterful at both of those. [/quote]

Castillo (who fought and almost beat Mayweather and who’s one of Pac’s sparring partners) says Pac is faster and hits harder than Floyd. I definitely agree with the power, but not sure about speed. I’ll take his word for it though.