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P6 Black Cellucor, Beast or Overpriced

The new prohormones have added esters in hopes of getting around the ban. Thus the increased hepatoxicity (sp?)

[quote]GetSwole wrote:
The new prohormones have added esters in hopes of getting around the ban. Thus the increased hepatoxicity (sp?)[/quote]

I continue to feel smarter about my choice to run the prohormone cycle. Just kidding, thanks for the info, hopefully others will listen.

[quote]Make sure to have a post cycle therapy set up for this or you will experience sides.

Gerdy

[/quote]

Things have been going good with my PCT. I have held on to most of my gains, and all of the problems I had while on the cycle are either gone or starting to go away completely (Prostate issues, excessive pumps and headaches, etc). I have not had gyno, or other sides while off the cycle, but my PCT has been solid. I ran a 4 week cycle of the prohormone. How long should I keep up the PCT? It has been 1 week so far.

I have 2 bottles of P6 black on the way. What do you guys recommend I take while on cycle and while off cycle? Im not worried about cost…just want good products.

[quote]Greek Tarzan wrote:
Make sure to have a post cycle therapy set up for this or you will experience sides.

Gerdy

Things have been going good with my PCT. I have held on to most of my gains, and all of the problems I had while on the cycle are either gone or starting to go away completely (Prostate issues, excessive pumps and headaches, etc). I have not had gyno, or other sides while off the cycle, but my PCT has been solid. I ran a 4 week cycle of the prohormone. How long should I keep up the PCT? It has been 1 week so far. [/quote]

What are you using for pct?

4 weeks is what I’d recommend…if you don’t have nolva/clomid I probably don’t want to hear what you are using actually. Tbh you might end up being perfectly fine and wouldn’t require the need of a real serm and some otc b.s. might get the job done. If you chose the otc part then just take whatever it says because that’s not what I’d recommend and I won’t be of assistance there.

Gerdy

[quote]Dirty Gerdy wrote:
Greek Tarzan wrote:
Make sure to have a post cycle therapy set up for this or you will experience sides.

Gerdy

Things have been going good with my PCT. I have held on to most of my gains, and all of the problems I had while on the cycle are either gone or starting to go away completely (Prostate issues, excessive pumps and headaches, etc). I have not had gyno, or other sides while off the cycle, but my PCT has been solid. I ran a 4 week cycle of the prohormone. How long should I keep up the PCT? It has been 1 week so far.

What are you using for pct?

4 weeks is what I’d recommend…if you don’t have nolva/clomid I probably don’t want to hear what you are using actually. Tbh you might end up being perfectly fine and wouldn’t require the need of a real serm and some otc b.s. might get the job done. If you chose the otc part then just take whatever it says because that’s not what I’d recommend and I won’t be of assistance there.

Gerdy

[/quote]

Thanks for the info.

I have been using OTC PCT for almost 3 weeks now with no problems. I have held on to most of my new gains, but I have been eating 1 to 1/2 grams of protein per body pound per day. I am going to do the PCT for 1 more week. However, I agree with Gerdy, if this were juice, the OTC PCT would probably not cut it, and I would be in big trouble, as in triple c cup.
This whole experience really sucked, but I learned a lot the hard way.

I know I am going to sound like a smacked-assed on here, but I was reading your thread and had a few questions.

I am currently taking P6 Black. I have never used steroids nor have I ever taken anything like P6 Black before. I am in my 2nd week of taking it. I am still not sure if it is working yet. I do seem to be able to lift a little more, but I have not noticed any major gains yet.

I was concerned about the person who mentioned that their prostate was enlarged. How many P6 pills were you taking per week? What did you do to resolve this? Should I be stacking something along with P6?

What does PCT mean?

What are pumps?

Your annoying friend,
Big

[quote]nymrbig wrote:
I know I am going to sound like a smacked-assed on here, but I was reading your thread and had a few questions.

I am currently taking P6 Black. I have never used steroids nor have I ever taken anything like P6 Black before. I am in my 2nd week of taking it. I am still not sure if it is working yet. I do seem to be able to lift a little more, but I have not noticed any major gains yet.

I was concerned about the person who mentioned that their prostate was enlarged. How many P6 pills were you taking per week? What did you do to resolve this? Should I be stacking something along with P6?

What does PCT mean?

What are pumps?

Your annoying friend,
Big
[/quote]
Your questions are great, sorry did not get back to you sooner. I am going to answer your questions point by point.

You say you have not noticed any major gains yet. Are you eating between 1 to 1/2 grams of protein per body pound per day? This is critical, as is consuming protein within 30 minutes of working out.

I was taking 2 pills in the morning on non-work out days, and two pills in the morning and 3 before work outs on work out days(5 total on work out days). This is what the directions on the bottle say, which will make the bottle last about a month. If you dilute this you dilute the results of course.

I would stack The P6 Black with a DHT blocker that contains Beta Sitosterol to avoid potential prostate problems. Here are some of the ingredients I found in a formula that I used to help resolve my symptoms.

Beta Sitosterol 120 Mg N/A*
Campesterol 60 Mg N/A*
Stigmasterol 40 Mg N/A*
Citrus Pectin (Citrus Limon)(Fruit & Peel) 30 Mg N/A*
Calcium (As Dicalcium Phosphate) 140 Mg 14%

PCT means Post Cycle Therapy. After taking a steroid or Prohormone like P6 Black people use PCT. You were raising your testosterone levels by putting a foreign substance into your body, so your body shuts off its’ own production of testosterone because it has plenty from an outside source. So when you stop taking these substances that dramatically raise your testosterone, your testosterone levels naturally drop way down, and your body is not producing any naturally, and this leads to a host of problems, such as losing all of your gains. So what people normally do is start taking a product that naturally starts the body to produce its’ own testosterone about 1 week before stopping to take the prohormone or steroid. This gives the body a chance to catch up. Also, when you dramatically raise your testosterone levels your body also naturally raises your estrogen level to properly balance things out. You need the proper amount of estrogen to work hand in hand with the testosterone. The problem is when you stop taking the foreign substance, your testosterone drops way, way down immediately, but estrogen stays high for a while, so you need to dramatically lower it right away, so people take an estrogen blocker a few days before stopping a cycle(prohormone or steroid). If you don’t you could get “bitch tits” or gynecomastia.

Pumps are that swelling of your arms chest and any other body parts during and shortly after a work out.

Got to the steroid forum and read more about PCT. Remember that the P6 Black is no where near as strong as steroids so the PCT can probably be done with OTC(over the counter products, like Alpha Male and Rez-V).

Thanks Tarzan for your feedback. I do appreciate it very much.

I consume 1 protein shake on workout days. I believe it is only 50 grams of protein. I try to work out 3 days on, 1 off cycle. I weigh about 214lbs. I guess I am not taking enough protein, right?

I called Cellucor about stacking and PCT. They mentioned to me basically the same thing you did in terms of taking an estrogen blocker for PCT immediately after a cycle of P6. They suggested P6 Red which has an estrogen blocker in it as well as stuff to boost back your normal testosterone levels.

Cellucor mentioned that I shouldn’t worry about the prostate inflamation unless I will be taking more than 1 cycle, which I am not sure if I will. I really do not want to get bitch tits. That scares the hell out of me. What do you take for PCT?

I noticed that P6 black seems to make me very angry at times. I am not sure why this is. I will tell you that I am now in my 4th week of taking it and my friends and family have told me that they thought I was on steroids. They said I was getting huge, but I don’t think I am.

I am not sure if its just the pyschology of how I see myself. I don’t feel that much bigger, and given the chance to take P6 for another cycle, I am doubting that.

What are your general thoughts on P6? Other than the legality, what is the benefit (or non-benefit) of taking P6 versus just taking steroids?

I will probably just buy P6 Red for my PCT and then I doubt I will go another cycle. I would love to hear your thoughts.

Thanks,
Mr. Big

This is my somewhat uneducated opinion on this. I hope someone more experienced can chime in. And I also think this should be in the Steroids forum. And proper AAS will always be better than Pro-Hormones.

Post Cycle Therapy (aka PCT)

You’ll want a Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator (SERM) for PCT. The commonly used one is Tamoxifen (more commonly known as Nolvadex. DO NOT confuse this with cheap knock-offs like “Novedex”). Tamoxifen is a prescription only medication commonly used for the treatment of breast cancer in females and (to a limited degree) gynecomastia (“bitch tits”) in males.

There is great debate about the use of an Aromatase Inhibitor (AI) during PCT, mostly due tho the rebound effect I believe. The most commonly used AI would be Anastrozole (known as Arimidex). I believe most people would say use one but taper off to avoid the rebound effect (someone please chime in on this).

Cycle Support

I don’t know much about the product you’re using, but my guess is that it will be fairly hepatoxic (meaning your liver hates it). Also note that steroids result in the increase of LDL (low-density lipoprotein) and decrease HDL (high-density lipoprotein).

I personally recommend the following supplements while using PH’s and for PCT.

  • Milk Thistle
  • Saw Palmetto
  • Fish Oil
  • Red Yeast Rice
  • Celery Seed
  • Hawthorn Extract
  • Taurine

EDIT: Just adding this, PH’s are for all intents and purposes legal steroids. Depending on shutdown OTC PCT products will NOT cut it. Get a proper SERM and AI.

And also remember - steroids increase protein synthesis, so chug that shake and eat that steak!

[quote]nymrbig wrote:
Thanks Tarzan for your feedback. I do appreciate it very much.

I consume 1 protein shake on workout days. I believe it is only 50 grams of protein. I try to work out 3 days on, 1 off cycle. I weigh about 214lbs. I guess I am not taking enough protein, right?

I called Cellucor about stacking and PCT. They mentioned to me basically the same thing you did in terms of taking an estrogen blocker for PCT immediately after a cycle of P6. They suggested P6 Red which has an estrogen blocker in it as well as stuff to boost back your normal testosterone levels.

Cellucor mentioned that I shouldn’t worry about the prostate inflamation unless I will be taking more than 1 cycle, which I am not sure if I will. I really do not want to get bitch tits. That scares the hell out of me. What do you take for PCT?

I noticed that P6 black seems to make me very angry at times. I am not sure why this is. I will tell you that I am now in my 4th week of taking it and my friends and family have told me that they thought I was on steroids. They said I was getting huge, but I don’t think I am.

I am not sure if its just the pyschology of how I see myself. I don’t feel that much bigger, and given the chance to take P6 for another cycle, I am doubting that.

What are your general thoughts on P6? Other than the legality, what is the benefit (or non-benefit) of taking P6 versus just taking steroids?

I will probably just buy P6 Red for my PCT and then I doubt I will go another cycle. I would love to hear your thoughts.

Thanks,
Mr. Big

[/quote]

First of all don’t freak out, this stuff and similar things is very commonly used, with no problems by the masses with just a little planning. My buddies who also work at GNC tke the P6 red when they come off of this with no problems what so ever. Even better, I personally used a product like Alpha Male a few days to a week before coming off the cycle. I also use a product like Rez-V a few days before coming off the cycle. You want to run these products for the same lenght as your cycyle (how long you were on the pro-hormone or steroid). I did take a liver support product commonly available at any sports supplement store. I would recommend a Beta Sitosterol to avoid any prostate problems just in case. You might be fine, I am 40 years old so I have to do this. It can’t hurt to take it and it can hurt if you don’t. With this and most other pro-hormones you can use OTC (over the counter PCT(post cycle therapy products)). With Steroids you need to use prescription PCT OTC products.

Again, you have to count your protein intake. You need 1 to 1/2 grams of protein per body pound per day. Also, you should be taking some protein within 30 minutes or less of working out (critical). You can find web sites that break down the calories and the GRAMS OF PROTEIN of anything you can think of, so keeping track is a breeze. If I eat chili at Wendy’s I go to their web site instead for a breakdown. For your weight you should be eating around 300 to 321 grams of protein per day, every day whether you work out or not. Also, eat every 3 hours so your body does not eat your muscles for food. When I buy lunch at 12pm at work I only eat half of it and I eat the other half at 3 pm. I don’t get fat like this and I don’t starve my muscles, I bench about 405 lbs.

I use a body tape measure and scale every day. When I was on P6 Black I saw that I gained 5 pounds, but my waist went down 1 inch at the same time, and I went up on the weights. This is how I chart progress.

As far as my thoughts on P6 Black, it is a beast very powerful. But if you are going to use it, you are better off taking real steroids. Less side effects, as most don’t pass through your liver as Pro-hormones do. However, if you don’t know what you are doing and do steroids you could end up with some bad side effects, whereas you might get away with more on the pro-hormones. If you are going to use gear (steroids) go on the steroids forum and learn a bunch first before you do anything. Read for a solid week before you ask questions as you will learn a bunch.

As for me, I am done with the Prohormones, and since God has given me another chance I am not going to mess it up with Pro-hormones or Steroids. I will use creatine, beta alanine, natural testosterone boosters, and natural estrogen blockers, Branch Chain Amino Acids, protein, etc. You can get very big with this natural stuff.

Thanks Tarzan and Makavali. I do appreciate all of the information you have provided me.

Cellucor mentioned to me that P6 Black has an estrogen blocker in it. Therefore, there is no need to even use an OTC estrogen blocker after a P6 Black cycle. They recommended that I start taking P6 Red for my PCT, which will boost back my natural testosterone levels. P6 Red also has an estrogen blocker in it as well. My plan is to take P6 Red with possibly an AI.

I have only tried P6 for 1 cycle. While on the cycle, I could lift a little more weight. I also noticed an increase in my “pumps” as you say. Other than that, I don’t notice any big changes.

The “beast” part of P6 sounds like the damage it does to your liver and your wallet. Given the fact that it is not as effective as pure steroids, I don’t believe it is worth the risk to your liver.

Tarzan, you are doing 405lb bench naturally? That is incredible. I can barely do over 300lbs max. I should definitely think about going back to BCAA tabs and natural T boosters for sure.

As for my protein intake, I think I am not eating enough protein. I will definitely look into increasing my protein intake as you have suggested Makavali.

My final thoughts on P6 is that it isn’t worth risking damage to your liver. It may be a beast over multiple cycles, but in my short experience with the product, it really didn’t make a tremendous difference. It makes you wonder why you would take P6 over just taking steroids (other than the legality of it.)

Thanks again and I will be seeing you in the other forums!

Cheers,
Big

[quote]Greek Tarzan wrote:
With this and most other pro-hormones you can use OTC (over the counter PCT(post cycle therapy products).[/quote]

What? I hope to God you’re not talking about bullshit products like Novedex XT and other shit like that.

[quote]nymrbig wrote:
Thanks Tarzan and Makavali. I do appreciate all of the information you have provided me.

Cellucor mentioned to me that P6 Black has an estrogen blocker in it. Therefore, there is no need to even use an OTC estrogen blocker after a P6 Black cycle. They recommended that I start taking P6 Red for my PCT, which will boost back my natural testosterone levels. P6 Red also has an estrogen blocker in it as well. My plan is to take P6 Red with possibly an AI.

I have only tried P6 for 1 cycle. While on the cycle, I could lift a little more weight. I also noticed an increase in my “pumps” as you say. Other than that, I don’t notice any big changes.

The “beast” part of P6 sounds like the damage it does to your liver and your wallet. Given the fact that it is not as effective as pure steroids, I don’t believe it is worth the risk to your liver.

Tarzan, you are doing 405lb bench naturally? That is incredible. I can barely do over 300lbs max. I should definitely think about going back to BCAA tabs and natural T boosters for sure.

As for my protein intake, I think I am not eating enough protein. I will definitely look into increasing my protein intake as you have suggested Makavali.

My final thoughts on P6 is that it isn’t worth risking damage to your liver. It may be a beast over multiple cycles, but in my short experience with the product, it really didn’t make a tremendous difference. It makes you wonder why you would take P6 over just taking steroids (other than the legality of it.)

Thanks again and I will be seeing you in the other forums!

Cheers,
Big
[/quote]

I agree with part of what you are saying as far as this causing more damage than steroids with nowhere near the results. However, I got great results from this, and so did many other people I know. This leads me to believe as you said your protein intake was way off, and perhaps your workout routine needs a change, and other supplementation may be off as well, etc. I could only bench 300lbs. and I was doing a lot of cardio at the time. It turned out I was doing way too much cardio (1 hour day, 5 days a week), and I was doing cardio at too high of a heart rate, thus eating my muscles up. I lowered my heart rate and cut back to 3 days a week for 30 minutes each, and my bench flew up again. I got another surge on the bench when I cut back to exercising each muscle group only once a week(I was overtraining). I have also experienced gains when I changed my workout routine. I experienced gains when I increased my protein intake, and when I changed to eating some protein every three hours(I was starving my muscles by only eating every 5 or 6 hours.

What I am trying to say, is you need to look carefully at your diet(protein), and mix up your workout routine properly and a host of other things, before taking anything, otherwise you are spinning your wheels. And even if you do get gains you will quickly lose them. Once you get all these things in place and maximize your natural ability then you can look at other things if you chose.

For me I will only use proven OTC stuff, although I acknowledge that Makavali is right, OTC products are nowhere as strong as juice or pro-hormones, but that is the road I choose. If you are going to use juice, do your research first on a host of topics. To start with know about liver protection, cycling, estrogen blocking, PCT, protein intake and supplementation etc, first.

God Bless,

[quote]Greek Tarzan wrote:
For me I will only use proven OTC stuff, although I acknowledge that Makavali is right, OTC products are nowhere as strong as juice or pro-hormones, but that is the road I choose. If you are going to use juice, do your research first on a host of topics. To start with know about liver protection, cycling, estrogen blocking, PCT, protein intake and supplementation etc, first.[/quote]

We can agree that OTC Prohormones work, but for PCT, I really suggest getting a proper SERM as opposed to the OTC “PCT” stuff they sell these days.

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Greek Tarzan wrote:
For me I will only use proven OTC stuff, although I acknowledge that Makavali is right, OTC products are nowhere as strong as juice or pro-hormones, but that is the road I choose. If you are going to use juice, do your research first on a host of topics. To start with know about liver protection, cycling, estrogen blocking, PCT, protein intake and supplementation etc, first.

We can agree that OTC Prohormones work, but for PCT, I really suggest getting a proper SERM as opposed to the OTC “PCT” stuff they sell these days.[/quote]

I am staying away from Pro-hormones and just using OTC Testosterone Boosters, and Estrogen Blockers, creatine BCAA’s Protein, Beta Alanine, etc. I do get my T levels tested to make sure that the products I use actually do something. I try to keep my t-levels around 1,000. No big results here just trying to stay as natural as possible.

As for PCT getting a proper Serm is much better than an OTC PCT formula. However, for Pro-hormones used at recommended doses there are a few OTC PCT formulas that do work, as I know plenty of people who have done this, myself included. But, if someone got a hold of Juice or a really strong Pro-Hormone and tried an OTC product for PCT they could be in serious trouble. So I side with you to be on the safe side, and many of the OTC PCT products really stink, so you are right in your thoughts. Most people don’t test products with a blood test, etc, like I do. And you should not gamble with your health.

[quote]Greek Tarzan wrote:
I am staying away from Pro-hormones and just using OTC Testosterone Boosters, and Estrogen Blockers, creatine BCAA’s Protein, Beta Alanine, etc. I do get my T levels tested to make sure that the products I use actually do something. I try to keep my t-levels around 1,000. No big results here just trying to stay as natural as possible.

As for PCT getting a proper Serm is much better than an OTC PCT formula. However, for Pro-hormones used at recommended doses there are a few OTC PCT formulas that do work, as I know plenty of people who have done this, myself included. But, if someone got a hold of Juice or a really strong Pro-Hormone and tried an OTC product for PCT they could be in serious trouble. So I side with you to be on the safe side, and many of the OTC PCT products really stink, so you are right in your thoughts. Most people don’t test products with a blood test, etc, like I do. And you should not gamble with your health.[/quote]

Fair enough, but but there are some out there who use these new designer steroids. Don’t recommend OTC PTC to them, very bad idea.

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Greek Tarzan wrote:
I am staying away from Pro-hormones and just using OTC Testosterone Boosters, and Estrogen Blockers, creatine BCAA’s Protein, Beta Alanine, etc. I do get my T levels tested to make sure that the products I use actually do something. I try to keep my t-levels around 1,000. No big results here just trying to stay as natural as possible.

As for PCT getting a proper Serm is much better than an OTC PCT formula. However, for Pro-hormones used at recommended doses there are a few OTC PCT formulas that do work, as I know plenty of people who have done this, myself included. But, if someone got a hold of Juice or a really strong Pro-Hormone and tried an OTC product for PCT they could be in serious trouble. So I side with you to be on the safe side, and many of the OTC PCT products really stink, so you are right in your thoughts. Most people don’t test products with a blood test, etc, like I do. And you should not gamble with your health.

Fair enough, but but there are some out there who use these new designer steroids. Don’t recommend OTC PTC to them, very bad idea.[/quote]

Right on!

NEW INFORMATION!!!
I hate to admit it but I was wrong! After doing research on the compounds I took, the problems I experienced were not because of my prostate, but rather from not drinking very large amounts of water. If you drink large amounts of water the side effects I experienced would not of happened.

This explains why my symptoms soon disappeared after I finished the cycle! I am going to runP6 black one more time, because nothin has worked so well, and it is swim suit season baby!