T Nation

P.Diddy: Overrated?

Personally, I felt this mother fucker did nothing except dance in the videos and finish the a rapper’s sentence. I used to like his songs like “Mo money, mo problems”, “Victory”, “Been Around The World”, and “Come with me” from the Godzilla soundtrack.

But then I found out that every song I mentioned was a sample and the rat bastard barely even changes the beat. He doesn’t change a thing.

Listen to Public Enemy’s “Public Enemy No.1” and then listen to P.Diddy’s “One”.

I never understood his value as a producer.

This is a hip hop related debate, so hopefully Big Boss, White Flash and the funky bunch show up.

He was in the right spot at the right time after being fired from Uptown.

He has no musical or lyrical talent, but he is good at taking money, and making more money.

[quote]WolBarret wrote:
Personally, I felt this mother fucker did nothing except dance in the videos and finish the a rapper’s sentence. I used to like his songs like “Mo money, mo problems”, “Victory”, “Been Around The World”, and “Come with me” from the Godzilla soundtrack.

But then I found out that every song I mentioned was a sample and the rat bastard barely even changes the beat. He doesn’t change a thing.

Listen to Public Enemy’s “Public Enemy No.1” and then listen to P.Diddy’s “One”.

I never understood his value as a producer.

This is a hip hop related debate, so hopefully Big Boss, White Flash and the funky bunch show up.[/quote]

I don’t even consider P.Diddy relevant to hip-hop anymore…I respect him more as an entrepreneur with his business pursuits.

I never really thought he produced anything outside of the songs he sampled from…but apparently he has,but I question how much he put his hands on things rather than just having the final say-so as an executive producer. He has talented producers and song writers behind him and as friends from way back. At least he used to.

I personally,do not feel he has any musical talent whatsoever…just drive to make things happen…and the ear to appreciate other people with talent. BUT,there’s a reason he couldn’t keep The Lox on deck…enough said.

was he ever rated

I personally don’t give a shit about the guy. He came up riding biggie’s success IMO.
After biggie died, P.Diddy cashed in big time then used the money to go onto over ventures.
His talent? Scouting people he can make money off of :). His musical talent? Non-existent.

[quote]drewh wrote:
was he ever rated
[/quote]

Of course he was…

Before I speak, I must say that I’ve never listened to a full Diddy album, not even No Way Out, but I’ve heard his hits. But it’s hard to say he’s overrated since most everyone I talk to either says “he ruined hip hop” or just “he sucks”.

I don’t really think Diddy was very talented, between his unimaginative use of samples on some songs, and his use of co-producers on the other songs I don’t really see him as being a talented producer. And as for rapping, Diddy sounded like a producer.

That being said I think he was important in so far as who he associated himself with. Biggie may very well be the most talented rapper ever IMHO, and Mase was very good and underrated [based on Harlem World, haven’t heard his other stuff]. Diddy comes from an A&R background anyway, so if you judge him on that he did pretty well with those two. Scouting people with talent, and developing them into well rounded artists is a talent if you do it well. Some very well rounded albums came out of that label [Well, 3 by my count, but I haven’t heard enough] in the mid to late 90s and I’d assume Diddy had something do do with the final version of those records as executive producer.

So basically what I’m saying is, judge him less as an artist and more as an executive producer, A&R guy, and record label head. He looks a lot better that way. It’s kind of like DJ Drama, no real musical talent that we know of, but still an important and overall good thing to hip hop.

As for the issue of what happened to the direction of hip hop after Bad Boy Records broke big and the whole thing about pop rap taking over. Anyone familiar with what I post here about hip hop could probably guess that I think that it’s irrelevant at best and elitist tripe from amateur critics at worst.

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:

I don’t even consider P.Diddy relevant to hip-hop anymore…I respect him more as an entrepreneur with his business pursuits.

[/quote]

Bab Boy South has a couple of artists in Yung Joc and Gorilla Zoe that are sort’ve popular. However, I don’t know how big they are in the south since I’m posting from Toronto :S. I guess it counts for something, though. But I think you know more than me about this shit :D.

EDIT: Wol, why’d you change your avy so soon? Say goodbye to your profile views :frowning: most of them were from me I think.

I can’t say I appreciated Diddy’s music. I never saw him as a musician, just a executive who could keep a tune. He is not overrated for what he is, he is probably underrated. Besides Dr. Dre/Eminem/50 Cent he is one of the best producers in the business.

Now, I am not saying that he personally produces stuff. I say this basically because if I was him I wouldn’t bother with being in the studio like that either. I would sit back and either say yes or no on matters of how I thought the public would deal with it.

In his specialization (his ear and ability to call the shots) I think he is great. So, before you say he is overrated you’ll have to specifically say what you are rating him.

Yes, Diddy’s business prowess and ear has given him fame, and that probably has helped with his music. And as a musician or an artist, his personal stuff isn’t that great, but he made a lot of money off of producing/selling the stuff. So, his stuff isn’t original, but he sells his artists and makes sure their babies stay in pampers.

[quote]LarryDavid wrote:
Before I speak, I must say that I’ve never listened to a full Diddy album, not even No Way Out, but I’ve heard his hits. But it’s hard to say he’s overrated since most everyone I talk to either says “he ruined hip hop” or just “he sucks”.

I don’t really think Diddy was very talented, between his unimaginative use of samples on some songs, and his use of co-producers on the other songs I don’t really see him as being a talented producer. And as for rapping, Diddy sounded like a producer.

That being said I think he was important in so far as who he associated himself with. Biggie may very well be the most talented rapper ever IMHO, and Mase was very good and underrated [based on Harlem World, haven’t heard his other stuff]. Diddy comes from an A&R background anyway, so if you judge him on that he did pretty well with those two. Scouting people with talent, and developing them into well rounded artists is a talent if you do it well. Some very well rounded albums came out of that label [Well, 3 by my count, but I haven’t heard enough] in the mid to late 90s and I’d assume Diddy had something do do with the final version of those records as executive producer.

So basically what I’m saying is, judge him less as an artist and more as an executive producer, A&R guy, and record label head. He looks a lot better that way. It’s kind of like DJ Drama, no real musical talent that we know of, but still an important and overall good thing to hip hop.

As for the issue of what happened to the direction of hip hop after Bad Boy Records broke big and the whole thing about pop rap taking over. Anyone familiar with what I post here about hip hop could probably guess that I think that it’s irrelevant at best and elitist tripe from amateur critics at worst.

Big_Boss wrote:

I don’t even consider P.Diddy relevant to hip-hop anymore…I respect him more as an entrepreneur with his business pursuits.

Bab Boy South has a couple of artists in Yung Joc and Gorilla Zoe that are sort’ve popular. However, I don’t know how big they are in the south since I’m posting from Toronto :S. I guess it counts for something, though. But I think you know more than me about this shit :D.

EDIT: Wol, why’d you change your avy so soon? Say goodbye to your profile views :frowning: most of them were from me I think. [/quote]

Oh yeah…they are popular. Gorilla Zoe also came from Boyz N Da Hood…which gave us Young Jeezy…and Jodi Breeze(who’s more of a local hit of ATL…hasn’t hit big yet,but talented).

I referenced The LOX earlier about not staying with Bad Boy…yet I just read that they are going back to Bad Boy…wow.

Anyways,good post…pretty much had my line of thought,just with more detail.

I have nothing much to add other than that this song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6ZnzHCUH28

Was the shit and he produced it. So I can’t totally hate on him for that. Plus, without him, this would have never happened:

http://www.buzzhumor.com/videos/4887/Chappelle

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
WolBarret wrote:
Personally, I felt this mother fucker did nothing except dance in the videos and finish the a rapper’s sentence. I used to like his songs like “Mo money, mo problems”, “Victory”, “Been Around The World”, and “Come with me” from the Godzilla soundtrack.

But then I found out that every song I mentioned was a sample and the rat bastard barely even changes the beat. He doesn’t change a thing.

Listen to Public Enemy’s “Public Enemy No.1” and then listen to P.Diddy’s “One”.

I never understood his value as a producer.

This is a hip hop related debate, so hopefully Big Boss, White Flash and the funky bunch show up.

I don’t even consider P.Diddy relevant to hip-hop anymore…I respect him more as an entrepreneur with his business pursuits.

I never really thought he produced anything outside of the songs he sampled from…but apparently he has,but I question how much he put his hands on things rather than just having the final say-so as an executive producer. He has talented producers and song writers behind him and as friends from way back. At least he used to.

I personally,do not feel he has any musical talent whatsoever…just drive to make things happen…and the ear to appreciate other people with talent. BUT,there’s a reason he couldn’t keep The Lox on deck…enough said.

[/quote]

Agreed,

He did produce some talent, but fell from where he was years back. He helped put Biggie on the map, who blew up and is certainly one of the best rappers of all time. But I don’t find him to be musically talented.

Funny side story (not trying to hijack) - Last week not far from me, an argument started at 5:30 am in the middle of the street, as to who sold more records, Dr. Dre or the Beatles. LOL. It became so heated and crowded that police came, and gave the official verdict. The Beatles sold more albums. Some people are just too awake at 5:30am I tell you.

[quote]WolBarret wrote:
But then I found out that every song I mentioned was a sample and the rat bastard barely even changes the beat. He doesn’t change a thing.
[/quote]

Seriously, and by no means am I trying to put you down but you didn’t know that his sampling was basically the same as the orginal.Even as an 7th grader, back then I knew that his shit was never “his.”

Another one that stands out in my mind is the Will Smith song “Men in Black” granted the genre was different and “Forget Me Nots” was completely lryically different. I just feel as if most of the main stream rap at that time was a rip from something else.

Now as for him being overrated I think he was one of the first one to bring the flash and money to the absolute forefront of rap, most of his songs were about that. And it was like that for awhile and it still seems as if ever rapper out there now puts out a song about how he has the best cars and most money. But now the songs are more diverse.

In the grand scheme of things he is just a small fish in a sea of big fish full of talented rappers. And LD brings up the point that he was more valuable as a producer than rapper, So maybe he is a decent sized fish in a sea full of big fish rappers.

overrated? is he rated at all?

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Agreed,

He did produce some talent, but fell from where he was years back. He helped put Biggie on the map, who blew up and is certainly one of the best rappers of all time. But I don’t find him to be musically talented.

Funny side story (not trying to hijack) - Last week not far from me, an argument started at 5:30 am in the middle of the street, as to who sold more records, Dr. Dre or the Beatles. LOL. It became so heated and crowded that police came, and gave the official verdict. The Beatles sold more albums. Some people are just too awake at 5:30am I tell you. [/quote]

Dude, you’re in LA. I’m not surprised. Similar shit happens here in SF.

[quote]belligerent wrote:
overrated? is he rated at all?

[/quote]

sigh

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
drewh wrote:
was he ever rated

Of course he was…[/quote]

First off I’ma say that Ready to die is one of the greatest albums of all time in any genre, and if Combs hadn’t found Biggie we wouldn’t have it.

Other than that the guy seems to have no redeeming qualities. I have absolutely no problem with sampling [shit, Pete Rock’s my favorite DJ] but as Wol pointed out he doesn’t sample beats, he steals 'em. He comes across as unbearablly cocky, takes way too much credit for shit he didn’t do and seems like a straight up dick. He plucked Mase from children of the corn but didn’t take Big L and used Biggies death as an oppertunity to further promote himself, and capitalized on the wave that followed and now seems to kind of be out of the public eye.

As far as business minds go he’s got to be at the top of the food chain 'cause the guy has no discernable talent but we’re here talking about what he has [or hasn’t] done and he’s a fucking millionaire a couple of hundred times over. My guess is he’ll hold a press conference soon to announce something no one really cares about to get his name back out there and hit another mini wave before retiring to ovversee his clothing empire.

That was a long winded way of saying hell yeah he’s overrated.

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
First off I’ma say that Ready to die is one of the greatest albums of all time in any genre, and if Combs hadn’t found Biggie we wouldn’t have it.

Other than that the guy seems to have no redeeming qualities. I have absolutely no problem with sampling [shit, Pete Rock’s my favorite DJ] but as Wol pointed out he doesn’t sample beats, he steals 'em. He comes across as unbearablly cocky, takes way too much credit for shit he didn’t do and seems like a straight up dick. He plucked Mase from children of the corn but didn’t take Big L and used Biggies death as an oppertunity to further promote himself, and capitalized on the wave that followed and now seems to kind of be out of the public eye.

As far as business minds go he’s got to be at the top of the food chain 'cause the guy has no discernable talent but we’re here talking about what he has [or hasn’t] done and he’s a fucking millionaire a couple of hundred times over. My guess is he’ll hold a press conference soon to announce something no one really cares about to get his name back out there and hit another mini wave before retiring to oversee his clothing empire.

That was a long winded way of saying hell yeah he’s overrated.[/quote]

That honestly was a very entertaining post…

And I pretty much agree with everything you said.

I’m just waiting for someone to make a “Who’s better, Diddy or Kanye” thread so you can flip your shit again. That was awesome.

I met Pdiddy once. Total DOUCH BAG. Having said that I will admit that he has great business instincts. That has nothing to do with musical talent (although he has produced some good shit). He sure figured out how to leverage the relationships that he had to make some serious fucking cash. I forget where I heard this, but several years ago, I heard (it may have been on Leno or Letterman or something) that he was making more than six thousand dollars a day at that time. That’s some serious loot! So I guess that makes him a total RICH douche bag. LOL

bad boy has released a slew of great albums - he isn’t a rapper, he gets other rappers to write his raps.

I think a lot of people forget Black Rob’s album - the guy that released that track - like whoah…his album was an absolute banger - incredibly slept on.

He is probably a better hip hop ceo than Jay-z, I cant wait for the meth, ghost and rae cd that’ll be dropping on bad boy, the lox on bad boy? probably a bad idea.

[quote]WolBarret wrote:
Personally, I felt this mother fucker did nothing except dance in the videos and finish the a rapper’s sentence. I used to like his songs like “Mo money, mo problems”, “Victory”, “Been Around The World”, and “Come with me” from the Godzilla soundtrack.

But then I found out that every song I mentioned was a sample and the rat bastard barely even changes the beat. He doesn’t change a thing.

Listen to Public Enemy’s “Public Enemy No.1” and then listen to P.Diddy’s “One”.

I never understood his value as a producer.

This is a hip hop related debate, so hopefully Big Boss, White Flash and the funky bunch show up.[/quote]

I thought this was since maybe 1997 or so.