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P+C/P+F Support Thread


Considering that Berardi's P+C/P+F meal plan seems to be the most popular diet here on T-Mag, it is only natural that there would be some questions that people have regarding this method of shoving food down your gullet. I'll start it off:

I'm currently bulking and therefore am trying to get in as many carbs as possible each day. I've also pretty much determined that I'm insulin sensitive considering that whenever I have a big carb meal I get real tired and oftentimes get real veiney after the meal. So considering that I'm insulin sensitive would it be beneficial to increase my P+C meals from 3 a day to 4 a day, thus giving me 4 P+C meals and 2 P+F meals? I'm following the carbs in the morning, fats in the evening method as opposed to staggering the meals, so basically by 4 o'clock or so (roughly) I have to have ingested like 97% of my carbs for that day. I think that if I had an extra P+C meal, I'd be able to take fuller advantage of the muscle-building effects of carbs.

Thats my question, lets hear yours'...


So considering that I'm insulin sensitive would it be beneficial to increase my P+C meals from 3 a day to 4 a day, thus giving me 4 P+C meals and 2 P+F meals?

I'm no expert, but if your insulin sensitive, shouldn't you be reducing your carb + protein meals.

My question is who here follows P+F/P+C combos with a paleo diet? and can it be done?



I guess my questions/concerns stem from your own, Chris.

Firstly, your self-diagnosis of insulin sensitivity may not be the most accurate assessment. Since insulin acts as a vasodilator, it's only natural that you'll get "veiny" after eating carbohydrates. And, actually, getting sleepy after a carbohydrate-containing meal may not only be a poor indicator of one's sensitivity to insulin but actually may be the opposite of what you perceive it to be (i.e. not sensitive to insulin).

I am also somewhat concerned with your carbs in the morning and fat in the evening. This should not be generalized to everyone, as this definitely should not apply to those that train in the evening. The myth that carbs should be cut out at such and such a time is extremely displeasing to me.

So, now that you've addressed your questions, I'd love to be of assistance! Having four of your six meals--although that's just another implied rule that six meals, and not more, should be eaten daily--in P/C fashion would be a good option for gaining muscle mass.

My prescription of the timing would depend largely on when you train.



Sounds like a job for Maximum Muscularity, eh?



I read in a Berardi article (The Anabolic Power of Insulin) that lethargy and bulging veins after a high-carb meal is a good indicator of insulin sensitivity.



Speaking from personal experience here, I have noticed that the more I have gotten my diet and training in order, the more tired I feel after a P+C meal. So for me, being tired after a P+C meal is a good indicator of insulin sensitivity. I also say this because I have been getting leaner while adding mass recently, which most would agree, is a direct effect of increased insulin sensitivity.


I'm feeling you, EC:-)

Alright, these arbitrary bases can be tossed to and fro. The veiny thing is relatively irrelevant, though. That's more a function of leanness and insulin's action as a vasodilator.

The best way to determine your insulin sensitivity is the fasting insulin test that JB discussed in the second part of Massive Eating.

That being said, if you train regularly with weights, are relatively lean, and perform some energy system work on a regular basis, you more than likely have good insulin sensitivity.

For the poster that wasn't clear as to whether insulin sensitivity was a good or bad thing, being more sensitive to insulin is definitely a good thing. The more sensitive you are, the less insulin that your pancreas will secrete in response to a given load of blood glucose. The less insulin circulating in the system, the more stable your energy levels and fat oxidative capabilities.


I train in the evening, and it is hard for me to follow the 3 p+c meals in the early part, then 3 p+f meals after that. Timbo was right about this. If I don't have carbs in me, I feel lethargic and don't care to lift. I have to have carbs a few hours before I lift and then immediately after.

I, too, have 4 p+c meals throughout TRAINING days, then only 2 or 3 on non-training days. I'm cutting right now, so it's beneficial and I feel good.


what is with the fixation of 6 meals ?
While Bulking i could have up to 11 meals (inculding shakes and especially while on Mag10) per day. Shit if I only had 6 meals they would Friggin hyyooge!