T Nation



Well, I've never thought I might be interested in joining the 'dark side' :wink: of bodybuilding (cue dark music), but here's the thing:

  • I have ligament damage

  • I'm getting prolotherapy for this (this works, I'd like a little extra help, though; the back story is that some joints respond pretty fast to it, others don't, though, since it's impossible to deload them properly)

  • I'd like to use Oxandrolone since it has been shown that it increases collagene synthesis with wound healing and provides robust cross-linking in the resulting healed tissue (as opposed to other AAS which may also increase collagene synthesis but result in a brittle 'end product')

I've also spent time reading through lots of the Oxandrolone/Anavar threads in here.
So, to cut to the chase:

My goal is NOT to use Oxandrolone for
* building muscle
* aiding muscle retention while cutting

I solely want to make use of its healing properties on connective tissues.
And I'd like to do so shortly after my next prolotherapy injections. Seeing how this type of regenerative injection therapy takes about 6-12 weeks to show effects (on account of the healing cascade that lasts for about 6 weeks), I'd do the cycle for about 10 weeks, 12 weeks tops.

So, my questions:

  1. studies have shown that Oxandrolone helps with rebuilding skin damage by increasing collagene synthesis. I'm no medical expert, so: does that translate into increased collagene synthesis during wound healing in a ligament (method of action in prolotherapy)?

  2. could a relatively moderate dose (say, 10 mg ED) be enough? This might be very hard to answer, but please, give it your best shot, even if it's only a gut feeling.

  3. Oxandrolone seems to be quite 'exotic' (on account of its bad efficacy compared to 'classic' approaches like testosterone injections): how can I make sure I don't get fakes? It'd be very uncool for my purposes to have ingested dbol, for example.
    Are there surefire tests to validate a purported Oxandrolone drug (I've read about a flame-based approach yielding a specific color, but I don't buy into that)?

  4. Would I need to take something to minmize the potential damage to my liver and PCT at the aforementioned low dose?

  5. I'm from Germany and there's no Oxandrolone-based drug registered here, so even if I could convince a doc to give me a prescription, I'd have to get it from another country (if that's possible at all). So, to anyone in here having tried to get his hands on Oxandrolone: how many times have you been scammed with fakes?

This topic is close to my heart, so I'd appreciate any input on this.
I don't know if my stats are relevant for this, since I'm not planning to use it for performance enhancement.

Let's just say I've lifted for more than a decade, am closing in on 30 and strong and big enough for roids. And somewhat responsible.


Ive been considering something similar.
Deca, Equi, or anavar to help strengthen my joints and tendons
Along with some test tho
Ive got the Ankylosing Spondylitis and anything I can do to aid my joints and tendons will help immensely.
Sorry I can't answer your questions
I'll definitely use some Arimidex Cuz I prefer Test Prop and PCT with Nolva or Clomid
Why did you choose Anavar over Deca and Equi?



I've seen a lot of people refering to 'joints and tendons' to be repaired.
Not trying to smart-ass my way around, here, but: before trying to repair a joint by pharmaceutic means, a proper diagnosis is needed to help choosing the right measures.

  • a joint consists of ligaments (connect bones to bones) and articular cartilage
  • tendons connect muscles to bones

So, if your joint problems are solely caused by cartilage damage, Adequan/iCHon might be more suitable than, say, Anavar.
As far as I know/have read, the other drugs you've mentioned do jack for your joints.
You won't benefit from thicker tendons/ligaments, if they're brittle. Just food for thought.
And some AAS pull more water into your joints, thereby potentially masking your symptoms. Once you go off-cycle, ouchie...


ghrp-6 100mcg with cjc 1295 without DAC 100mcg 2-3x per day, i believe, would help


I've also considered this.
I'm a bit timid, though, since elevated GH levels might also affect existing cancer cells.
So, in my understanding, I'd rather live with a temporary strain on my liver.

Don't hesitate to correct me if my take on this is flawed: I'm strictly speaking from a theoretic background and have no practical experience with all of this, yet.


ehh, i dont feel knowledgeable enough to comment... i think BBB could definitely help you out some



I'm surprised that only two people have chimed in on this, yet.


This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


Any luck with the Oxandrolone? I figure by now you would have found the answers you're looking for and/or gone ahead and tried it for yourself.

  1. Prolotherapy works by causing inflammation and thus more blood flow to the injured area; But what if the damage is being caused by chronic inflammation in the first place?

2.Thank You Very Much for pointing me towards Adequan/Ichon. I just briefly looked into it and it seems very promising. I'm more intersted in the Ichon since it's supposedly easier to acquire. Since info on human use is limited do you have any advice or info you could share on these products?

3.I'm tending to avoid HGH simply because of price, must be kept cold, and I'm not too wild about the idea of maybe having to inject directly into the affected joints (especially in the spine and pelvis department). This is something I will definitely look into as I get older and have more stability in my life.


GHRP-6, IGF-1, Deca, EQ, NPP, Anavar, GH all can help injuries.

I would go with some GHRP-6 like BBB suggested and use it along side the anavar or NPP if you choose to go that route. If you go with NPP though, run some testosterone with it, even if it is just a replacement dose. Maybe IGF-1 if you have that in the budget.
I plan to use Deca, replacement dose of test, GHRP-6 and possibly some IGF-1 after my next meet in hopes of healing up some lingering issues.

@Tony... HGH isn't site injected... IGF-1 on the other hand can be.


This is generally the best method for testing any and all androgens (not including testosterone for obvious reasons). Flame chromatography is well documented and recommend by countless forum regulars.


Fatty and BS, if you're still around, you may want to look into the research peptide TB500. Guys on other boards are reporting a TON of success with it - I exaggerate you not.


"thou doth protest too much..."


I had forgotten about this thread.

Not yet.

I don't know.
I've read about people having success with treating tendinitis with prolotherapy.

ICHon can be acquired from online veterinary pharmacies.
I'd also go with it.
Someone whose judgement I trust a lot had crepitus in a joint and managed to get rid of it by using ICHon intra-articularly.

Have you tried it, yet?
Which joint is giving you problems?

I believe HGH could be beneficial, but I'm a bit reluctant to give it a try, yet.

Thanks a lot, man, this looks promising!
Any more infos you could give me apart from the obvious google search results (PM's broken, e-mail posted in my hub).

I see what you did there, kiddo.
You might have gotten the wrong impression.


I just finished four weeks / 2 vials of ichhon
Was not too impressed
Some relief in the shoulders a d knees
But my wrist and back Are still in bad shape
Ill give it another go at a higher dose maybe while on an AAS cycle

But overall is not worth the money
I didn't have the courage to try an IA in my wrist
Tho I am still considering it
I'm thinking ill have to have a Dr. Check it out first