T Nation

Overtraining?

[quote]Ramo wrote:
You train as long as it takes you to get all your work done. Simple as that. Sometimes for me that’s 45 minutes, sometimes it’s 3 hours.

Metal Militia benchers train at least 3 hours a pop on a weekly basis and it works for them. When you get strong, it can take you 45 minutes or more just to work up to a max. Then depending on how much supplemental and accessory work you have to do, it can take awhile.

I’ve found that BCAA and a training drink help a lot with longer sessions.

Just get done what needs to get done. Real overtraining is not going to happen to you unless you are training on the nerve for hours a day every day with inadequate recovery for a long period of time. Being overtrained is a serious condition and can take a long time to recover from. It’s not the same as simply doing too much work to make optimal progress. The latter can be capitalized on with a planned deloading week; at the end of the week, you’ll have realized tremendous gains that were stimulated by the large amount of work you did before. [/quote]

lemme begin by saying that I consider you to be one the people here who knows what they are talking about from reading you in the past so don’t take this as being antagonistic.

However this kid is 5’10 and 180 with under 2 years experience. he’s not training (I assume) toward a specialty goal where all the things you quite rightly mention would apply.

You don’t believe that 4 hours is counterproductive for a guy like this? I’m seriously asking the question.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Ramo wrote:
You train as long as it takes you to get all your work done. Simple as that. Sometimes for me that’s 45 minutes, sometimes it’s 3 hours.

Metal Militia benchers train at least 3 hours a pop on a weekly basis and it works for them. When you get strong, it can take you 45 minutes or more just to work up to a max. Then depending on how much supplemental and accessory work you have to do, it can take awhile.

I’ve found that BCAA and a training drink help a lot with longer sessions.

Just get done what needs to get done. Real overtraining is not going to happen to you unless you are training on the nerve for hours a day every day with inadequate recovery for a long period of time. Being overtrained is a serious condition and can take a long time to recover from. It’s not the same as simply doing too much work to make optimal progress. The latter can be capitalized on with a planned deloading week; at the end of the week, you’ll have realized tremendous gains that were stimulated by the large amount of work you did before.

lemme begin by saying that I consider you to be one the people here who knows what they are talking about from reading you in the past so don’t take this as being antagonistic.

However this kid is 5’10 and 180 with under 2 years experience. he’s not training (I assume) toward a specialty goal where all the things you quite rightly mention would apply.

You don’t believe that 4 hours is counterproductive for a guy like this? I’m seriously asking the question.[/quote]

Ok. I’ll admit I didn’t look at the kid’s profile or physique photos before posting my comment.

So OP, I’d be very curious to see what exactly you were doing that took four hours. At your level, I don’t see how a single session could take that long.

I do believe that as a beginner, you need to find a template that fits your goals and work with it as written for awhile, before playing with it to make it fit you better. That’s the best way but not the only way.

But I do believe everything I wrote above and think that strength training should be treated like practice for any other sport. There are tasks you need to accomplish, and that’s your focus. It takes as long as it takes.

I spoke with my friend who worked out with me today and he told me we only worked out for 2 and a half to 3 hours. I didn’t focus on just one or two muscles but my whole upper body. I had trouble sleeping the next morning. I may not know much about the whole body building thing but I just wanted to ask about overtraining. Are there any good books out there you guys could recommend? not about overtraining but about bodybuilding…

Check out Christian Thibaudeau’s Black Book of Training Secrets in the store section of this site.

what about the “get buffed” book, you guys ever check it out.

I don’t know too much about books out now, but let me throw this out there. To have the constitution to train even for 2.5-3 hours is admirable. It just isn’t necessary or productive on an ongoing basis for most non competitive lifters.

I’m asking this as a serious non sarcastic question. Do you like training that long or have you been doing it because that’s what you thought you should do?

[quote]Ramo wrote:

<<< Ok. I’ll admit I didn’t look at the kid’s profile or physique photos before posting my comment. >>>

[/quote]

Actually I didn’t look at his photos until just now either and I gotta say I think he’s got a pretty decent foundation going. Especially traps and delts which leads me to believe they’ve maybe been getting some extra work though probably not on purpose.

This guy may wind up doing pretty well.

i think a big problem in discussing workouts is different peoples’ understanding of the word “intensity”.

i think it is important to understand that intensity, as it pertains to weight training, refers to %'s of 1RM and that such, not just what one person may think is “intense”.

granted, you may do a set of 21’s or something along those lines, and create quite a burn, and comment “that was intense!”…but that is not the “intensity” that one talks about in relation to weight training.

simply put, you cannot have high intensity and high volume in the same workout. youre either doing more sets/reps with a lower intensity, or youre doing less sets/reps with a higher intensity. its that simple. volume gives way to intensity and vice versa.

now, ive never taken steroids, so i cant argue for what they will/wont let you accomplish, but anyone that argues the above in reference to a natural trainee needs to do some more reading.

[quote]testostronefreak wrote:
I’m not mouthing off like a “punk” I was just asking some questions and every time I post, everyone always has something negative to say. Tell me why 4 hours is long?[/quote]

after 45 minutes test starts to drop and cortisol rises

there is no way you can lift heavy for 4 houres I find it hard to give it my all for 45 minutes by the time Im done I feel like I halfassed the last 10 minutes

if your sleep sucks balls even when your tired your over training as a general rule… for me any ways

[quote]dez6485 wrote:
simply put, you cannot have high intensity and high volume in the same workout. youre either doing more sets/reps with a lower intensity, or youre doing less sets/reps with a higher intensity. its that simple. volume gives way to intensity and vice versa.[/quote]

some powerlifters do sets of 20-100 pushdowns after a tricep workout with good results and they are useing close to thier 1rm for working sets

I dont think there is anything wrong with working out for 4 hours once every 3-6 months as long as your eating alot that day it might give you a nice growth shock or strength shock with a couple days rest afterwards

[quote]dez6485 wrote:
<<< i think it is important to understand that intensity, as it pertains to weight training, refers to %'s of 1RM and that such, not just what one person may think is “intense”. >>>[/quote]

I’ve read this a whole bunch of places and while every coach on Earth may agree on that definition there is no etymological designation for the English word “intensity” in relation to weight training at all. It’s just a definition that a bunch of people agree on near as I can determine.

I’m not faulting that definition, but it’s not set in stone and not one that I personally find very useful. When I’m training alone in my basement “intensity” refers to a scaled percentage of available effort.

I’m betting more guys than consciously realize it share that definition from a practical standpoint.

As relates to this thread nobody could do steady 1 rep max lifts or 20 rep max sets for 4 hours as both are intense enough under my definition to make that impossible for a mortal human.

If you’ve ready the ‘get buffed’ book you’ll know that King suggests that a natural trainee can only recover from a max of 12 work sets per workout.

I think if you can work out for as long as you say then you’re not using your time well. Most people seem to average 45mins. They know they’re done because after this point their performance will diminish due to fatigue. If you can go for 3hrs+ then you’re not working at a high enough intensity.

It’s a good way to lose weight though. But for the purpose of getting bigger and stronger, I don’t think it’s the right way to go.