T Nation

Overtraining Shoulders on 3x/Wk TBT?

Hi guys

I currently train in 3 different combat sports, racking up 5 sessions per week. On top of this I’m hitting the weights 3 days per week to increase my strength and mass.

I’m finding that I’m feeling very stiff in my shoulders recently when in the gym, although it’s yet to affect my lifting performance. I feel as the weights increase however, it might soon be a different story…

I’ve only been doing 3 different disciplines for around 2 months, when I added ground fighting to the mix. The boxing and Taekwondo have been a mainstay for a good few years now.

My current schedule looks as follows

Mon:
WTF Taekwondo training (mainly legs - little shoulder involvement) - 1 hour

Tues: AM
Weights - Strength (6x3)
A) Back Squat
B1) Bench Press
B2) Single Arm Dumbbell Row

Tues: PM
Boxing Gym - 2 hour session

Wed:
Off

Thurs: AM
Weights - Volume (6x6-10)
A) Deadlift
B1) Pull Ups
B2) Standing Overhead Barbell Press

Thurs: PM
WTF Taekwondo training - 1 hour

Fri:
Ground Fighting Training - 1 hour

Sat:
Off

Sun: AM
Weights - Conditioning (3-5 rounds of circuit)
A1) Single Arm DB Snatch
A2) Dumbbell Swings
A3) Dumbbell Push Press
B) Bulgarian Split Squats - 2 sets
C) External Rotations on Cable Machine

Sun: PM
Ground Fighting Training - 1 hour

As you can see, a pretty busy schedule! (I work in a gym hence my ablilty to weight train in the days)

You’ll notice that I’m hitting the shoulder joint on all three weight days, plus using it during the bixing and the two ground fighting sessions.

Any comments on this?? Does anyone think this constitutes over training for the shoulders?

If so, any ideas on how you other guys schedule your training?

Any input is greatly appreciated, thanks

Some people can handle it, some people can’t. I couldn’t handle something like that because I have preexisting injuries, and my rotator cuff would be dying.

Boxing takes a heavy toll on your shoulders, and I felt that even TMA wore them down. Doing 6x6 in the middle of all that for shoulder presses might be busting you down.

Back off on the volume, specifically the shoulder presses, and maybe incorporate some rotator cuff work as well as rear delt work. You’ll be surprised at how much this can help.

Good advice above. I would get rid of any heavy overhead or shoulder work. Maybe substitue some mobility or light rotator cuff work like suggested above.

You can always start adding thing back in as you get used to your schedule.

That’s a lot of work but it’s not impossible to do. It’s better if you work up to that kind of volume but since you’re already there, you can do a few things. imo you’re just building up tension.

Warm up your shoulders better. Really take more time to do that. Does wonders.

Stretch. It gets a bad rap but stretching does fucking wonders for you. Dynamic stretches should be incorporated into your warmup and to a lesser extent your cool down.

If you really want to get some great benefit, after your workout though preferably directly after your shoulder work, do some “extreme stretching” it’s a doggcrapp workout thing google it. REALLY improves the composition of the muscle fascia

self-myofascial release. Yes foam rolling, but the shoulder is hard as fuck to do. I recommened a tennis ball and eventually a baseball.

if you don’t know about it by now:

ART Massage. myofascial release again, but this time by a professional. the difference is pretty surprising.

btw it’s not really the shoulder presses in your program… it’s this day:

FOUR shoulder movements? even if its a prehab one.

[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
That’s a lot of work but it’s not impossible to do. It’s better if you work up to that kind of volume but since you’re already there, you can do a few things. imo you’re just building up tension.

Warm up your shoulders better. Really take more time to do that. Does wonders.

Stretch. It gets a bad rap but stretching does fucking wonders for you. Dynamic stretches should be incorporated into your warmup and to a lesser extent your cool down.

If you really want to get some great benefit, after your workout though preferably directly after your shoulder work, do some “extreme stretching” it’s a doggcrapp workout thing google it. REALLY improves the composition of the muscle fascia
[/quote]
Somewhere on IM he recommends disloctions, although i don’t think he calls them this. Really good for the shoulders. I would be smart about the other stretching he recommends. He recommends them at precise points in the workout for a reason. I would never do the chest stretch or tricep stretch he recommends with fatigued shoulders. recipe for disaster.

[quote]

self-myofascial release. Yes foam rolling, but the shoulder is hard as fuck to do. I recommened a tennis ball and eventually a baseball.

if you don’t know about it by now:

ART Massage. myofascial release again, but this time by a professional. the difference is pretty surprising. [/quote]
Tennis ball and and art are good suggestions. they will get to places in the shoulders that regular message wont touch.

[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
btw it’s not really the shoulder presses in your program… it’s this day:

Sun: AM
Weights - Conditioning (3-5 rounds of circuit)
A1) Single Arm DB Snatch
A2) Dumbbell Swings
A3) Dumbbell Push Press
B) Bulgarian Split Squats - 2 sets
C) External Rotations on Cable Machine

FOUR shoulder movements? even if its a prehab one. [/quote]

I was thinking that too.

Thanks alot guys, points taken on board.

I’ll look at restructuring my conditioning day - I never looked at the exercises as hitting the shoulders so directly before Xen pointed out - cheers dude.

I’ll post my new modified routine on here for comments.

Also, regarding the rear delt work etc as suggested by fighting irish - Assuming I alter the conditioning day and keep the shoulder presses, is it best to add the rear delt work etc on that day when I’m already hitting the shoulder directly? That would make sense to me, what you guys think?

[quote]dhickey wrote:

Somewhere on IM he recommends disloctions, although i don’t think he calls them this. Really good for the shoulders. I would be smart about the other stretching he recommends. He recommends them at precise points in the workout for a reason. I would never do the chest stretch or tricep stretch he recommends with fatigued shoulders. recipe for disaster.

[/quote]

I agree, though some guys do all their stretching post workout, which isn’t nearly as efficient (imo). I was thinking just the shoulder stretch for this guy anyway.

and yes he doesn’t call them dislocations but same thing, i used to do them in gymnastics a lot.

^^Just go WAAAAAAAAAAAY slower than that guy

[quote]Xen Nova wrote:

I agree, though some guys do all their stretching post workout, which isn’t nearly as efficient (imo). I was thinking just the shoulder stretch for this guy anyway.

and yes he doesn’t call them dislocations but same thing, i used to do them in gymnastics a lot.

^^Just go WAAAAAAAAAAAY slower than that guy [/quote]

I like doing them with bands. I start out with mini bands and work my way up to light bands. Or if I’m on the road, I just choke up on a mini band as i get warmed up.

[quote]Alastair461982 wrote:
Thanks alot guys, points taken on board.

I’ll look at restructuring my conditioning day - I never looked at the exercises as hitting the shoulders so directly before Xen pointed out - cheers dude.

I’ll post my new modified routine on here for comments.

Also, regarding the rear delt work etc as suggested by fighting irish - Assuming I alter the conditioning day and keep the shoulder presses, is it best to add the rear delt work etc on that day when I’m already hitting the shoulder directly? That would make sense to me, what you guys think?[/quote]

I would say just do it one of the days you lift, I don’t think it really matters which. Just not one the one where you do your external rotations… it may be too much on the rotator cuff. Remember, mine is shot, so I’m very wary of doing too much volume. If you can handle it though go for it.