Overtraining All the Damn Time

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]jt339 wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]jt339 wrote:
I use straight sets on pretty much everything, try to change the range when I stall which is usually quite quickly.

[/quote]

This might very well be one of your biggest problems, especially if you are doing it with compound exercises you have decent strength levels for.
[/quote]

I had thought of this too. I just don’t understand the pyramiding shit of 20, 15, 12, 10 and then top set. That seems like you would be greatly weakened by the time you hit your working weight. Something I might do would be 10, 8, 5, 3 then my work sets of 3x8.[/quote]

Pyramiding like that is outdated and not what most experience people do. Look at training videos of top bodybuilders, Dorian Yates for example, to get a gist of what working up to a top set or two looks like. What they usually do a is a flat pyramid. That is, after a few light warmup sets, doing all sets of a compound exercise with the same reps but increasing the weight, in the same way Spidey talks about ramping up with a 5 x 5 protocol.

Just for example, say for your main set you use 300 pounds for ten reps.
Perhaps you might work up like this.
95 x 10
135 x 10
185 x 10
225 x 10
245 x 10
275 x 10
300 x 10

The first few set are very light and are true warmup sets. The rest are “working warmups” and only the last two are difficult. The last set is a good, difficult set, but not a grinding death set.

For less strenuous exercise you can do straight sets with weights that allow you to perform all sets in a given rep range. It’s easier to repeat sets with the same weight for the same reps with less taxing exercises, face pulls or triceps pressdowns say.
[/quote]

Gotta say I’ve seen plenty program in a pyramid like you said was outdated. JM and Shelby both love doing them. Works well IMO

OP write out your workouts for a week with weight and youe diet

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]JFG wrote:

“Inconsistency comes from overtraining.”

No, it doesn`t.

[/quote]

I think what he means is that he is going through this cycle in which he trains, drives himself into the ground, and then takes off because he has to recuperate. That’s inconsistency at work. [/quote]

i know what he means. He is, however, over simplifying. He is over training because of bad programming, which in turn, leads to inconsistency.

A few points. Being an intermediate lifter and elite presser still doesn’t answer the question on how long he has been lifting consistently. this is not a question to point a finger at him and laugh; It is to know. Things happen, we get hurt, life gets in the way, etc. We have all been there. But it makes a difference if he has been lifting 2 months or 6 years consistently.

Saying what he “generaly does”, does not answer what his program is. CT’s article on how to design a damn good program is great. I’ve recommended it before. But, yet again, he still has not answered to question. He mentioned that he goes hard for 4-8 weeks. Why. It is not in the program. What type of recovery does he do? What are his exercise selection, order, sets and reps? Is he following strength, size or fat loss?

His diet might not be so bad, but again, no specifics.

Lastly, he mentioned madcow, 5/3/1 and his own based on CT’s article. If he does all three at the same time, we all know where that leads (I doubt he is, just trying to get clarification).

From what he is saying, his program is the culprit. But, who knows? We don’t have enough info?!?!

[quote]JFG wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]JFG wrote:

“Inconsistency comes from overtraining.”

No, it doesn`t.

[/quote]

I think what he means is that he is going through this cycle in which he trains, drives himself into the ground, and then takes off because he has to recuperate. That’s inconsistency at work. [/quote]

i know what he means. He is, however, over simplifying. He is over training because of bad programming, which in turn, leads to inconsistency.

A few points. Being an intermediate lifter and elite presser still doesn’t answer the question on how long he has been lifting consistently. this is not a question to point a finger at him and laugh; It is to know. Things happen, we get hurt, life gets in the way, etc. We have all been there. But it makes a difference if he has been lifting 2 months or 6 years consistently.

Saying what he “generaly does”, does not answer what his program is. CT’s article on how to design a damn good program is great. I’ve recommended it before. But, yet again, he still has not answered to question. He mentioned that he goes hard for 4-8 weeks. Why. It is not in the program. What type of recovery does he do? What are his exercise selection, order, sets and reps? Is he following strength, size or fat loss?

His diet might not be so bad, but again, no specifics.

Lastly, he mentioned madcow, 5/3/1 and his own based on CT’s article. If he does all three at the same time, we all know where that leads (I doubt he is, just trying to get clarification).

From what he is saying, his program is the culprit. But, who knows? We don’t have enough info?!?![/quote]

You’re right. It’s poor programming and/or inappropriate diet.

OP, care to share more info?

[quote]JFG wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]JFG wrote:

“Inconsistency comes from overtraining.”

No, it doesn`t.

[/quote]

I think what he means is that he is going through this cycle in which he trains, drives himself into the ground, and then takes off because he has to recuperate. That’s inconsistency at work. [/quote]

i know what he means. He is, however, over simplifying. He is over training because of bad programming, which in turn, leads to inconsistency.

A few points. Being an intermediate lifter and elite presser still doesn’t answer the question on how long he has been lifting consistently. this is not a question to point a finger at him and laugh; It is to know. Things happen, we get hurt, life gets in the way, etc. We have all been there. But it makes a difference if he has been lifting 2 months or 6 years consistently.

Saying what he “generaly does”, does not answer what his program is. CT’s article on how to design a damn good program is great. I’ve recommended it before. But, yet again, he still has not answered to question. He mentioned that he goes hard for 4-8 weeks. Why. It is not in the program. What type of recovery does he do? What are his exercise selection, order, sets and reps? Is he following strength, size or fat loss?

His diet might not be so bad, but again, no specifics.

Lastly, he mentioned madcow, 5/3/1 and his own based on CT’s article. If he does all three at the same time, we all know where that leads (I doubt he is, just trying to get clarification).

From what he is saying, his program is the culprit. But, who knows? We don’t have enough info?!?![/quote]

Well from reading what you guys are saying, it seems that I am doing way too many heavy sets and that I need to get the volume from the ramp up sets which I really haven’t ever done. For chest for example, I do 9 sets on Monday, but all of those sets are hard sets and doesn’t include the warm up.

Monday
bench 5x8 2 minute rests
incline bench 4x10 2 minute rests
some laterals,
skull crushers 3x10 1 minute rests

Thursday
Military 3x8-10
db incline 4x12 (1 minute rests, stretch at the bottom, light weight)
flat db 4x12 (same as db incline)
laterals
jm press 4x10 1 minute rests.

I don’t do flies because they aggravate an old injury. Also work out at home so I just have a barbell, dumbbells up to 100lbs and an ez curl bar. At the end of the incline bench sets on monday, I’m fucking spent. Thursday doesn’t seem to bother me too much because the weights are so light for the incline db and flat db.

Tuesday
squat 5x8 (never actually got to do it because of tendinitis.
SLDL 4x12 60 seconds
rows 5x8 90 seconds
db curls 4x10 90 seconds
single leg calf raises 3x rest enough to do other leg

Friday
deads one max set
shrugs 2x12 60 seconds
front squat 4x10 (never got to actually do)
rack chins 5x8 90 seconds rest
db curls 4x10 90 seconds rest
single leg calf raises

EDIT: Up until a few weeks ago I was squatting 3x a week, 3x5 and that shit is damn exhausting. Got it in usually Sunday, Wednesday and Friday.

PLenty of people have already commented on possible programing issues. I won’t, because to be honest I think any basic program will build muscle if everything else is in place.

Diet wise,… 198 lbs, and you’re only eating 200g of protein? Egg Beaters and Light ice cream,… where are your healthy fats?

I’ll sound like a broken record to the guys who have been reading my crap for years now, but I found that I was able to handle and progress from a stupidly large amount of training volume as I focused more on my diet and recovery than trying to find some magic training program.

S

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
I’ll sound like a broken record to the guys who have been reading my crap for years now, but I found that I was able to handle and progress from a stupidly large amount of training volume as I focused more on my diet and recovery than trying to find some magic training program.

S[/quote]

I agree 100%. I find it odd to be looking for problems in the gym when the issue is under recovery.

[quote]jt339 wrote:

EDIT: Up until a few weeks ago I was squatting 3x a week, 3x5 and that shit is damn exhausting. Got it in usually Sunday, Wednesday and Friday.[/quote]

I’d say that was your problem right there.

Does not look like much volume at all…cardio? And biggest question diet with amounts of your ED eating.

As far as fats go, I eat eggs a few times a week, had 9 each morning Yesterday and the day before. During the week I make my cheap steak in olive oil. I take a couple grams of fish oil a day, but I don’t know if that’s enough. I’m not doing any cardio right now.

Stu, not trying to find something magic, just something that works without kicking my ass after a few weeks. I couldn’t keep up with the guys in the gym that have all grown larger than me now. I use to walk into the gym feeling awesome, but like a quarter of the way through the workout I was spent and using REALLY light weights, didn’t feel like I was doing much, just getting a pump. Then I’d burn out after a few weeks and they would just keep on going. They all pyramid, I always did straight sets if that means much of anything.

To me it looks like it has come down to this: Too many hard sets with not enough time to recover. So it looks like the answer would be to cut down from 4 days a week to three and hit the same lift every 10 days or keep the split I’ve got and reduce the hard sets per heavy lift down to 1-2 instead of 4-5 and use the warm up sets for more volume. Seem reasonable?

This is not amounts of food

Break down your meals for each day with amounts of food eaten.

Not being able to do this is showing the problem. Diet not training

I stand by my original statement. Your program is part of the problem. Diet is the other one, but I’ll let Ryan help you with that one.

I would suggest you find a pre written program from the search function (full body, push pull, upper lower, etc). Start light, to deal with tendonitis issues and stop going balls out every work out. There are patterns to go programs for a reason.

Good luck

First off you need to stop worrying about what everyone else is doing in the gym. Admit that you are slacking on the diet. The more effort you put into this, the more you will get out of it.

Secondly, who gives a fuck if you beat yourself to death in the gym? The idea is to progress, not to be tired and sore.

Finally, this isn’t going to happen overnight. Work smart and be consistent if you want to earn your goals.

I’m not so sure it’s the diet. I don’t have a strict one but it’s basically like this

Egg beaters
Couple pieces of bacon
Big bowl of oatmeal with some granola and raisins
Bagel from local bakery (300 calories, 5g fat, looked it up)
I would guess this to be around 1200 calories

Whatever meat is served at the hospital. Usually baked cod, tilapia, or chicken. I load up on it.
Handful of whatever veggies and some kind of rice ( we get some rice or pasta every day)
Guessing around 1000 calories, 50-100g protein a day depending on what’s served. I actually brought in my scale one day to weigh the tilapia and chicken lol. Now I just eyeball it.

Dinner is usually cheap steak in olive oil and some pasta and milk. Around 1000 calories

Greek yogurt plain, 40g protein. If this is post workout then I have some light ice cream or pasta.

All around it’s 3k-3.5k and I’m 205 today when I started at 198, 10 weeks into the bulk.

How old are you? I would get some bloodwork done because it doesn’t seem like you are doing anything extremely wrong besides maybe pushing yourself too hard.

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
PLenty of people have already commented on possible programing issues. I won’t, because to be honest I think any basic program will build muscle if everything else is in place.

Diet wise,… 198 lbs, and you’re only eating 200g of protein? Egg Beaters and Light ice cream,… where are your healthy fats?

I’ll sound like a broken record to the guys who have been reading my crap for years now, but I found that I was able to handle and progress from a stupidly large amount of training volume as I focused more on my diet and recovery than trying to find some magic training program.

S[/quote]

Stu, are you saying he should be getting more than 1 g/lb of bw?

at this stage, you may very well be able to start an advanced program
try 5/3/1 or John Meadow’s Mountain Dog Diet training

[quote]stefan128 wrote:
Stu, are you saying he should be getting more than 1 g/lb of bw?[/quote]

While I’m not an advocate of something ridiculous like 4-500g/day, I think that if our OP is indeed having problems, being at the very bottom end (if he’s even accurate with his gauge of 200) of what he “should” be getting probably is somethin he could adjust. Considering the TEF of protein, if he is indeed eating 200g, he’s certainly not getting all of it.

S

[quote]jt339 wrote:
I’m not so sure it’s the diet. I don’t have a strict one but it’s basically like this

Egg beaters
Couple pieces of bacon
Big bowl of oatmeal with some granola and raisins
Bagel from local bakery (300 calories, 5g fat, looked it up)
I would guess this to be around 1200 calories

Whatever meat is served at the hospital. Usually baked cod, tilapia, or chicken. I load up on it.
Handful of whatever veggies and some kind of rice ( we get some rice or pasta every day)
Guessing around 1000 calories, 50-100g protein a day depending on what’s served. I actually brought in my scale one day to weigh the tilapia and chicken lol. Now I just eyeball it.

Dinner is usually cheap steak in olive oil and some pasta and milk. Around 1000 calories

Greek yogurt plain, 40g protein. If this is post workout then I have some light ice cream or pasta.

All around it’s 3k-3.5k and I’m 205 today when I started at 198, 10 weeks into the bulk.[/quote]

If you are actually having problems with such a small volume routuine I suggest actually figuring out what you are eating you will be surprised. ALmost everyone who has never striclty counted is quite surprised at what it takes to get to “high calories”

Example i am eating 3450 cals. And a rough macro breakdown ( i am not gonna go look at my macro counter now) is 450c 270p and 55f or somewhere near. The food i eat. 1kg of cooked rice. Yes KG. 1.5lbs of chicken. 1/2 container of Cottage cheese. 1tbl spoon pb. 1/3 cup coconut milk. And 30g of carb intra workout. 60g of carb added to my Cottage cheese. 3 cups of cereal with 2 scoops protein powder pwo. I missed a couple minor things but that is the volume needed to hit 3450 for me.

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:

[quote]jt339 wrote:
I’m not so sure it’s the diet. I don’t have a strict one but it’s basically like this

Egg beaters
Couple pieces of bacon
Big bowl of oatmeal with some granola and raisins
Bagel from local bakery (300 calories, 5g fat, looked it up)
I would guess this to be around 1200 calories

Whatever meat is served at the hospital. Usually baked cod, tilapia, or chicken. I load up on it.
Handful of whatever veggies and some kind of rice ( we get some rice or pasta every day)
Guessing around 1000 calories, 50-100g protein a day depending on what’s served. I actually brought in my scale one day to weigh the tilapia and chicken lol. Now I just eyeball it.

Dinner is usually cheap steak in olive oil and some pasta and milk. Around 1000 calories

Greek yogurt plain, 40g protein. If this is post workout then I have some light ice cream or pasta.

All around it’s 3k-3.5k and I’m 205 today when I started at 198, 10 weeks into the bulk.[/quote]

If you are actually having problems with such a small volume routuine I suggest actually figuring out what you are eating you will be surprised. ALmost everyone who has never striclty counted is quite surprised at what it takes to get to “high calories”

Example i am eating 3450 cals. And a rough macro breakdown ( i am not gonna go look at my macro counter now) is 450c 270p and 55f or somewhere near. The food i eat. 1kg of cooked rice. Yes KG. 1.5lbs of chicken. 1/2 container of Cottage cheese. 1tbl spoon pb. 1/3 cup coconut milk. And 30g of carb intra workout. 60g of carb added to my Cottage cheese. 3 cups of cereal with 2 scoops protein powder pwo. I missed a couple minor things but that is the volume needed to hit 3450 for me.[/quote]

Well I’m gaining a little over half a pound a week so I thought I was doing alright.