T Nation

Overloading the Stretch Position

One of the trainers (a bodybuilder) at my gym did nothing but some kind of twitch reps… His sets basically lasted like 10 seconds with 10-15 short fast reps in them. He did twitch reps everything: dumbbell pullovers, curls, triceps pushdowns. He even did twitch reps with tendon-tearing heavy dumbbells on wrist curls! He was big.

“So what you need to do is, when you complete the eccentric phase you must attempt to lift the weight. There is a very good chance that you can’t do that because you are either using a supramax weight or are doing 3-5 reps with 90-100% which means that by the 2nd rep you will not be able to lift the load. But simply attempting to lift the weight (then having your partner help you) will give you a forceful turnaround which will overload the stretch position.”

So, ironically, it turns out that the “two man bench press” you see performed in college gyms worldwide actually are a sound technique. Whodathunkit?

Thibs, I apologise if this has been posted already elsewhere. What are your current thoughts on overloading the stretch position for abs exercises? What are your favourite abs exercises to optimise this type of training?

Thanks, appreciate your excellent work

Coach,
Great info with all the I,BB posts.

Still unclear to me what was the major factor to your rapid muscle gain when you were experimenting to come up with I, BB / HTH?

seems like the autoregulation wasn’t it - since you have done that for a long time

is the perfect rep / overload in the stretch position a new discovery for you or is that too something you have been doing for a long time?

was the magic the perfect rep and the new periworkout protocol combined?

maybe all this will be revealed in due time…
thanks again

#3 is something I’ve always done when I’ve had a workout partner. #2 sounds good, and is something I’ve started doing recently with some of my lifts. I’m not sure I really understand #1 yet, but obviously there’s a big advantage to trying to get the most out of each rep. I can’t really see myself using #4 for anything except curls…hmm…I may try it tomorrow…

[quote]mass production wrote:
Coach,
Great info with all the I,BB posts.

Still unclear to me what was the major factor to your rapid muscle gain when you were experimenting to come up with I, BB / HTH?

seems like the autoregulation wasn’t it - since you have done that for a long time

is the perfect rep / overload in the stretch position a new discovery for you or is that too something you have been doing for a long time?

was the magic the perfect rep and the new periworkout protocol combined?

maybe all this will be revealed in due time…
thanks again[/quote]

It was a combination of the whole system and the peri-workout. The workout was pretty much based on how I have been training most of my life, with some modification that allowed me to manage fatigue better and thus grow more easily.

But the peri-workout made a huge difference. Several guys have been trying it and reported on the forum some very impressive gains (one gained up to 22lbs in 6 weeks) despite not being able to follow the protocol in full due to the lack of ANACONDA. These guys were not following the IBB workout because it’s not out yet, but they still managed some very good gains from the protocol alone.

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
mass production wrote:
Coach,
Great info with all the I,BB posts.

Still unclear to me what was the major factor to your rapid muscle gain when you were experimenting to come up with I, BB / HTH?

seems like the autoregulation wasn’t it - since you have done that for a long time

is the perfect rep / overload in the stretch position a new discovery for you or is that too something you have been doing for a long time?

was the magic the perfect rep and the new periworkout protocol combined?

maybe all this will be revealed in due time…
thanks again

It was a combination of the whole system and the peri-workout. The workout was pretty much based on how I have been training most of my life, with some modification that allowed me to manage fatigue better and thus grow more easily.

But the peri-workout made a huge difference. Several guys have been trying it and reported on the forum some very impressive gains (one gained up to 22lbs in 6 weeks) despite not being able to follow the protocol in full due to the lack of ANACONDA. These guys were not following the IBB workout because it’s not out yet, but they still managed some very good gains from the protocol alone.[/quote]

I’m another example of this. 15 lbs in roughly 6 weeks. Appear leaner so although I’m sure some of it was fat, a good majority of it is muscle. Lifts increased a significant amount as well. Thanks Thibs

mannnn…My peri-workout stuff is on its way from Colorado… hurry fedex hurry!

CT,
Have you been doing activation exercises your whole training or is that kind of a new discovery. Like doing 3x3 of balistic pushup before doing the bench press ramping. Is that something youve always done? Because its incredible how such a simple thing of doing 3x3 of something ballistic etc… and activating the muscle/motor units which is a great thing.

Coach as you answer me in my last post Can you please explain me the autoregulation part please…

Charles, cherchais-tu une explication plus en profondeur ou juste une traduction??

Oui une explication, concernant le dernier post que j ai fait…

explaication from the last post i ve done…that CT answered

Thanks

Thib, thanks a lot for the info about fast turnarounds!!! They seem like totally my thing.

Here’s how my last 3 bench press sessions looked like:

Last Saturday :
50 x 4
60 x 4
70 x 4
80 x 4
85 x 4
87.5 KG x 4 (PR)

Tuesday :
Pin Press about 10 cm from chest, cluster reps : 70 x 2, 90 x 2, 100 x 2, 105 KG x 1
Then bench press :
50 x 3
60 x 3
70 x 3
80 x 3
90 x 3
95 x 2 (3rd rep fail, but 2 rep PR)

Sunday :
50 x 3
60 x 3
70 x 3
80 x 3
85 x 3
92.5 KG x 3 (3 rep PR)

3 PR sessions in a row.

These numbers may not seem impressive to you considering all the monsters you’re training, but for me personally it’s a blessing taking into account : a) 65 kg bodyweight with very small joints and tendons; b) insufficient diet, especially in carbs; c) no supplements whatsoever; d) I’ve never had such gains since newbie gains!

A small question to you though : do you recommend mixing up my style of ramping (smaller/bigger jumps, etc) ?

[quote]Thy. wrote:
Thib, thanks a lot for the info about fast turnarounds!!! They seem like totally my thing.

Here’s how my last 3 bench press sessions looked like:

Last Saturday :
50 x 4
60 x 4
70 x 4
80 x 4
85 x 4
87.5 KG x 4 (PR)

Tuesday :
Pin Press about 10 cm from chest, cluster reps : 70 x 2, 90 x 2, 100 x 2, 105 KG x 1
Then bench press :
50 x 3
60 x 3
70 x 3
80 x 3
90 x 3
95 x 2 (3rd rep fail, but 2 rep PR)

Sunday :
50 x 3
60 x 3
70 x 3
80 x 3
85 x 3
92.5 KG x 3 (3 rep PR)

3 PR sessions in a row.

These numbers may not seem impressive to you considering all the monsters you’re training, but for me personally it’s a blessing taking into account : a) 65 kg bodyweight with very small joints and tendons; b) insufficient diet, especially in carbs; c) no supplements whatsoever; d) I’ve never had such gains since newbie gains!

A small question to you though : do you recommend mixing up my style of ramping (smaller/bigger jumps, etc) ?
[/quote]

Good progress, keep it up!

You can vary the style of ramping, but only when you master regular ramping.

There are several types of ramps:

Regular ramp (like you are doing now)

Small-to-large ramp: make smaller jumps in the beginning (half of what you normally do) and regular jumps at the end. This is to work more on explosive strength AND if you are in a day where you feel that it will take you longer to get activated

Large-to-small ramp: make bigger jumps in the beginning (1.5 to 2 times what you normally do) and smaller jumps at the end. This is to work more on limit strength and should only be performed if you had an activation exercise before OR if you feel in the zone right off the bat

Small ramp: make small jumps during the whole exercise, this is when you want to get more volume done and are not shooting for a PR

Large ramp: make large jumps during the whole exercise, this is when you don’t have much time to train or don’t feel like you can handle a lot of volume. Don’t expect a PR with this approach though

Truncated ramp: just like a regular ramp as far as the size of the jumps, but stop the exercise at the max force set (the max weight with which you still accelerate the weight for all reps). This is best used during a deloading phase or when doing maintenance work

Double ramp: just like a regular ramp, but you perform a weight for two sets before going up. Also good if you want to include more volume or if you are having a hard time getting activated

Extended ramp: perform a regular ramp with 2 or 3 rep numbers. For example, ramp up to your 5RM then continue ramping up to your 3RM

Waved ramp: work up to your max force set, drop down 20-30lbs and ramp up to your max for the selected number of reps

CT, is it safe to say you’re not a fan of Box Squats due to no turnaround period?

[quote]cobrakai wrote:
CT, is it safe to say you’re not a fan of Box Squats due to no turnaround period? [/quote]

um…

[quote]cobrakai wrote:
CT, is it safe to say you’re not a fan of Box Squats due to no turnaround period? [/quote]

Movements from a deadstart overload the stretch position by removing the stretch reflex. It’s method no.2 in the list given in the first post.

[quote]Charles3264 wrote:
Coach as you answer me in my last post Can you please explain me the autoregulation part please…[/quote]

He’s not answering that because he has touched on it several times before. Look through his posts in this thread:
http://tnation.tmuscle.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_article/thibaudeau_talks_training_1

Thank you davinci…i havent read that thread

Hello CT:

I just gotta tell you that after being dieted down and having a photoshoot I went back to mass gains (keeping bodyfat in check of course) and with some supplement help and the ramping, and the fast turnaround, I had one of the best pumps of my life.

Thank you.