Outlaw Country Music

I’ll try to write as many random points as I can in an effort to keep me from rechecking this thread every 30 minutes.

  1. Lefty Frizzell set the standard in terms of singing. Most great singers (Merle, etc) freely admit that they’ve spent their life copying the man.

  2. Kris Kristofferson is the apotheosis of songwriters, in my book.

  3. No one sounds cooler than Waylon. That voice is beyond compare.

  4. Merle Haggard is one of the best combinations of a great singer/songwriter. Most country artists are good at one or the other. I’ve seen him in concert 9 times and he keeps getting better.

  5. Hank Williams III is the best new “outlaw” talent out there. Unfortunately, his head isn’t screwed on straight. If he could harness all that talent, he’d be unstoppable.

  6. Dale Watson is the one of the best examples of an extraordinary, albeit unknown, singer/writer/guitar player. I don’t know what quality he’s best at because he’s so great at each. His “Blessed or Damned” CD is a must have. A damn nice guy, too.

  7. Cash stands in a world by himself. You can’t categorize the man. His “American Recordings” CD is unbelievable.

  8. Hank Williams Jr had more talent than a dozen of the new “bubble gum pop” country artists (eg, Kenny Chesney). But he kinda lost his vision in the mid '80s. His “Habits Old and New” and “Whiskey Bent and Hellbound” albums represent two of the greatest country albums ever made. I don’t know if all those drugs/alcohol wrecked his brain, but he doesn’t seem to have the talent anymore.

  9. George Jones is one of those guys who sounds as good in concert as he does in the studio (when he’s sober enough to sing). I’ve seen him in concert three times and each time he said, “You guys are the best crowd I’ve ever had. If you keep it up, we just might play 'til 2 or 3 o’clock in the morning.” Of course, he never does. You’ll get about 70 minutes from the guy.

  10. Willie will play a concert until the cows come home. I can’t believe how long his shows last. I saw him at the House of Blues in Chicago and he was still playing while they dropped the curtain!

  11. Shooter Jennings is cool. His CD is a pretty good start. Too bad he didn’t inherit is Dad’s voice. But I like his attitude and his style.

That’s all for now.

Ah, one more thing. Even though I, too, get chills when I hear DAC’s “The Ride,” I consider Hank Jr’s “A Country Boy Can Survive” to be the song that all other country songs should be judged. It was so unique, and it’s stood the test of time (ie, it still sounds fresh and cool).

[quote]Chad Waterbury wrote:
Ah, one more thing. Even though I, too, get chills when I hear DAC’s “The Ride,” I consider Hank Jr’s “A Country Boy Can Survive” to be the song that all other country songs should be judged. It was so unique, and it’s stood the test of time (ie, it still sounds fresh and cool). [/quote]

I mean, come on, has there ever been a cooler line than:

“I’d love to spit some Beech-Nut in that dude’s eyes, and shoot him with my old .45, cuz a country boy can survive.”

Yep, that line embodies everything I love about country music.

[quote]Chad Waterbury wrote:
Ah, one more thing. Even though I, too, get chills when I hear DAC’s “The Ride,” I consider Hank Jr’s “A Country Boy Can Survive” to be the song that all other country songs should be judged. It was so unique, and it’s stood the test of time (ie, it still sounds fresh and cool). [/quote]

For what its worth, I absolutely concur.

[quote]Chad Waterbury wrote:
Ah, one more thing. Even though I, too, get chills when I hear DAC’s “The Ride,” I consider Hank Jr’s “A Country Boy Can Survive” to be the song that all other country songs should be judged. It was so unique, and it’s stood the test of time (ie, it still sounds fresh and cool). [/quote]

Somebody recently did a cover of Jr.'s “Country Boy Can Survive”. They tried to make it PC. It was laughable.

But I agree with you 100% Hank Jr.'s Whiskey Bent and Hellbound is pure gold and a must have for anyone that fancies themself an outlaw aficionado.

A ‘new’ group is hitting the mainstream scene is Van Zant (Johnnie and Donnie - think .38 Special and Skynyrd). I consider Van Zant a guilty pleasure, as I feel about mainstream country the same way I do about jazzercise. I don;t know if they qualify as outlaw - but they come from the patriarchal family of Southern Rock. hey gotta have a little outlaw in them.

I’m not too hip on much of the new stuff although I really like Hank III, and Shooter.

They are more Texas music than outlaw, but I am a really big fan of Cross Canadian Ragweed. “The Boys From Oklahoma” is one of the best songs in the world when you have had 3 or 4 Jim Beam and waters.

i like shooter’s cd. i also just got ticks to see him @ the paradise in boston -just 12 bucks !! wonder what kind of scene will be there…a few years back i saw billy joe shaver in northhampton mass and the place was full but i swear everyone just sat there stone faced like they were home watching tv. billy joe wasn’t sure how to take all the golf clapping … it was pretty weird…he was great though. he’s the real deal.

i haven’t warmed up to hank III yet. i’m not sure why…i like some of his tracks but his record sounds a little too slick for me…

i’m not a die hard county fan growing up in mass and all but i’ve liked merle haggard and billy joe as long as i can remember. i got into johnny cash with the rick ruben stuff and i’m always poking around…

i’d never heard of this “outlaw country” but it’s interesting to learn that just about every country record i have belongs to the outlaw category. wikipedia didn’t mention kinky freidman but he’s gotta be in there too.

I love Willie’s Red Headed Stranger but have any of you ever listened to his album titled Phases and Stages? I like this better than RHS. Stardust is also a great one to unwind to.

[quote]Chad Waterbury wrote:
rainjack wrote:
danreeves1973 wrote:
Its a shame that most people only know of Steve Earle because of “John Walkers Blues.” He’s written some great stuff, and much of it about characters much worse than John Walker Lindh.

Copperhead Road was an excellent album - but nowhere nearly as good as Guitar Town, which is one of the best albums ever recorded by anyone IMO.

Yes, Guitar Town is excellent. My personal favorite SE album is “I Feel Alright.” But “El Corazon” is a close second. Then, “Transcendental Blues” is next. But the latter should not be heard while in a depressed state. It just might make you do something you wish you hadn’t.
[/quote]

For what is worth my good friend has worked with Steve Earl before. He’s a sound engineer and was absolutly enamored by Earle. He said the guy was as nice as can be.

[quote]Chad Waterbury wrote:
I’ll try to write as many random points as I can in an effort to keep me from rechecking this thread every 30 minutes.

  1. Lefty Frizzell set the standard in terms of singing. Most great singers (Merle, etc) freely admit that they’ve spent their life copying the man.

  2. Kris Kristofferson is the apotheosis of songwriters, in my book.

  3. No one sounds cooler than Waylon. That voice is beyond compare.

  4. Merle Haggard is one of the best combinations of a great singer/songwriter. Most country artists are good at one or the other. I’ve seen him in concert 9 times and he keeps getting better.

  5. Hank Williams III is the best new “outlaw” talent out there. Unfortunately, his head isn’t screwed on straight. If he could harness all that talent, he’d be unstoppable.

  6. Dale Watson is the one of the best examples of an extraordinary, albeit unknown, singer/writer/guitar player. I don’t know what quality he’s best at because he’s so great at each. His “Blessed or Damned” CD is a must have. A damn nice guy, too.

  7. Cash stands in a world by himself. You can’t categorize the man. His “American Recordings” CD is unbelievable.

  8. Hank Williams Jr had more talent than a dozen of the new “bubble gum pop” country artists (eg, Kenny Chesney). But he kinda lost his vision in the mid '80s. His “Habits Old and New” and “Whiskey Bent and Hellbound” albums represent two of the greatest country albums ever made. I don’t know if all those drugs/alcohol wrecked his brain, but he doesn’t seem to have the talent anymore.

  9. George Jones is one of those guys who sounds as good in concert as he does in the studio (when he’s sober enough to sing). I’ve seen him in concert three times and each time he said, “You guys are the best crowd I’ve ever had. If you keep it up, we just might play 'til 2 or 3 o’clock in the morning.” Of course, he never does. You’ll get about 70 minutes from the guy.

  10. Willie will play a concert until the cows come home. I can’t believe how long his shows last. I saw him at the House of Blues in Chicago and he was still playing while they dropped the curtain!

  11. Shooter Jennings is cool. His CD is a pretty good start. Too bad he didn’t inherit is Dad’s voice. But I like his attitude and his style.

That’s all for now.
[/quote]

Very interesting choices and explanations. Speaking of Hank III, I just saw him live about 15 minutes from where I live at this small Honky Tonk. He’s fuckin’ wild as hell, but he is the real thing. I mean his grandfather is Hank Williams. How cool would that be?

Chad,

That’s awesome. You have just cemented yourself in my mind as the greatest strenth coach of all time. Please become an MD so I can have you do all my doctor stuff.

[quote]Chad Waterbury wrote:
Chad Waterbury wrote:
Ah, one more thing. Even though I, too, get chills when I hear DAC’s “The Ride,” I consider Hank Jr’s “A Country Boy Can Survive” to be the song that all other country songs should be judged. It was so unique, and it’s stood the test of time (ie, it still sounds fresh and cool).

I mean, come on, has there ever been a cooler line than:

“I’d love to spit some Beech-Nut in that dude’s eyes, and shoot him with my old .45, cuz a country boy can survive.”

Yep, that line embodies everything I love about country music. [/quote]

[quote]swivel wrote:
i like shooter’s cd. i also just got ticks to see him @ the paradise in boston -just 12 bucks !! wonder what kind of scene will be there…a few years back i saw billy joe shaver in northhampton mass and the place was full but i swear everyone just sat there stone faced like they were home watching tv. billy joe wasn’t sure how to take all the golf clapping … it was pretty weird…he was great though. he’s the real deal.

i haven’t warmed up to hank III yet. i’m not sure why…i like some of his tracks but his record sounds a little too slick for me…

i’m not a die hard county fan growing up in mass and all but i’ve liked merle haggard and billy joe as long as i can remember. i got into johnny cash with the rick ruben stuff and i’m always poking around…

i’d never heard of this “outlaw country” but it’s interesting to learn that just about every country record i have belongs to the outlaw category. wikipedia didn’t mention kinky freidman but he’s gotta be in there too.[/quote]

Oh man, I knew I’d forget someone - Billy Joe! Damn, that guy is incredible. I don’t know what’s better: his singing or his songwriting. Actually, BJ just might’ve passed Kris in the songwriting category. I got to meet BJ when he came to town last summer. Now he’s the perfect example of someone who doesn’t care about the money, just the music. I saw him in a little bar downtown. The bar was so small that I was about 4 feet from him throughout the show. It’s just a shame about his son because his current lead guitarist kinda blows. His son, on the other hand, could exchange licks with Stevie Ray.

Hank III too slick? Have you heard his “Lovesick, Broke and Driftin’” CD? That’s about as raw as it gets. In fact, he recorded it in his basement on a little 4 track (if I remember right).

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Chad Waterbury wrote:
I’ll try to write as many random points as I can in an effort to keep me from rechecking this thread every 30 minutes.

  1. Lefty Frizzell set the standard in terms of singing. Most great singers (Merle, etc) freely admit that they’ve spent their life copying the man.

  2. Kris Kristofferson is the apotheosis of songwriters, in my book.

  3. No one sounds cooler than Waylon. That voice is beyond compare.

  4. Merle Haggard is one of the best combinations of a great singer/songwriter. Most country artists are good at one or the other. I’ve seen him in concert 9 times and he keeps getting better.

  5. Hank Williams III is the best new “outlaw” talent out there. Unfortunately, his head isn’t screwed on straight. If he could harness all that talent, he’d be unstoppable.

  6. Dale Watson is the one of the best examples of an extraordinary, albeit unknown, singer/writer/guitar player. I don’t know what quality he’s best at because he’s so great at each. His “Blessed or Damned” CD is a must have. A damn nice guy, too.

  7. Cash stands in a world by himself. You can’t categorize the man. His “American Recordings” CD is unbelievable.

  8. Hank Williams Jr had more talent than a dozen of the new “bubble gum pop” country artists (eg, Kenny Chesney). But he kinda lost his vision in the mid '80s. His “Habits Old and New” and “Whiskey Bent and Hellbound” albums represent two of the greatest country albums ever made. I don’t know if all those drugs/alcohol wrecked his brain, but he doesn’t seem to have the talent anymore.

  9. George Jones is one of those guys who sounds as good in concert as he does in the studio (when he’s sober enough to sing). I’ve seen him in concert three times and each time he said, “You guys are the best crowd I’ve ever had. If you keep it up, we just might play 'til 2 or 3 o’clock in the morning.” Of course, he never does. You’ll get about 70 minutes from the guy.

  10. Willie will play a concert until the cows come home. I can’t believe how long his shows last. I saw him at the House of Blues in Chicago and he was still playing while they dropped the curtain!

  11. Shooter Jennings is cool. His CD is a pretty good start. Too bad he didn’t inherit is Dad’s voice. But I like his attitude and his style.

That’s all for now.

Very interesting choices and explanations. Speaking of Hank III, I just saw him live about 15 minutes from where I live at this small Honky Tonk. He’s fuckin’ wild as hell, but he is the real thing. I mean his grandfather is Hank Williams. How cool would that be?[/quote]

I think the fact that his granddaddy is Hank makes for a sharp, double-edged sword. Yes, he definitely inherited some of those incredible musical genes; but he also inherited ALL of the self-destructive genes.

I heard a story that Hank Jr and Waylon did a sort of “intervention” with Hank III when he first hit the music scene. Why the intervention? Because they figured he’d kill himself with booze/drugs. Now, if Hank Jr and Waylon (two of the biggest drug bingers in history) come knockin’ at your door, you know you’ve got a problem!

Alright, I’m officially retiring from this thread. If I don’t, I’ll never get any work done.

Glad we got to chat.

This is one of the best threads!

I’m a huge fan of all the “old” country singers mentioned here, ie. Waylon, Merle, DAC, Willie, Steve Earl, etc… And it just kills me when people compare groups like Big and Rich to the true “Outlaws”. Big and Rich aint no country band. they are one of the new bands that is supposedly more agreeable to larger crowds, therefore some in Nashville embrace them. Makes me sick…

Chad introduced me to both Hank III and Shooter. Both are pretty damn cool. I’m wearing the Shooter CD out right now. Love the hidden track.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Chad Waterbury wrote:
Ah, one more thing. Even though I, too, get chills when I hear DAC’s “The Ride,” I consider Hank Jr’s “A Country Boy Can Survive” to be the song that all other country songs should be judged. It was so unique, and it’s stood the test of time (ie, it still sounds fresh and cool).

Somebody recently did a cover of Jr.'s “Country Boy Can Survive”. They tried to make it PC. It was laughable.

But I agree with you 100% Hank Jr.'s Whiskey Bent and Hellbound is pure gold and a must have for anyone that fancies themself an outlaw aficionado.

A ‘new’ group is hitting the mainstream scene is Van Zant (Johnnie and Donnie - think .38 Special and Skynyrd). I consider Van Zant a guilty pleasure, as I feel about mainstream country the same way I do about jazzercise. I don;t know if they qualify as outlaw - but they come from the patriarchal family of Southern Rock. hey gotta have a little outlaw in them.

I’m not too hip on much of the new stuff although I really like Hank III, and Shooter.

They are more Texas music than outlaw, but I am a really big fan of Cross Canadian Ragweed. “The Boys From Oklahoma” is one of the best songs in the world when you have had 3 or 4 Jim Beam and waters. [/quote]

I seen CCR and Shooter opened up. That was a badass show. CCR played Boys from Oklahoma and the crowd freaked out. We actually met Shooter and Drea and they are both cool ass people. They just hung out in the crowd and watched CCr play. Drea is one of the most gorgeous woman I have ever seen.

[quote]Chad Waterbury wrote:

Oh man, I knew I’d forget someone - Billy Joe! Damn, that guy is incredible. I don’t know what’s better: his singing or his songwriting. Actually, BJ just might’ve passed Kris in the songwriting category. I got to meet BJ when he came to town last summer. Now he’s the perfect example of someone who doesn’t care about the money, just the music. I saw him in a little bar downtown. The bar was so small that I was about 4 feet from him throughout the show. It’s just a shame about his son because his current lead guitarist kinda blows. His son, on the other hand, could exchange licks with Stevie Ray.

Hank III too slick? Have you heard his “Lovesick, Broke and Driftin’” CD? That’s about as raw as it gets. In fact, he recorded it in his basement on a little 4 track (if I remember right).
[/quote]

i hear you chad , “slick” is not the right word…maybe it’s the mixing…aah shit i don’t know yet what i mean…

eddy shaver ? he was at the show i saw, just him and bj w/ acoustics . that cat is awesome !! what happenend to him ? please don’t tell me he died …

[quote]Chris Shugart wrote:
Chad introduced me to both Hank III and Shooter. Both are pretty damn cool. I’m wearing the Shooter CD out right now. Love the hidden track.

[/quote]

I just bought Shooter Jennings’ CD today. I put it in as soon as we got to the car, and listened to it for 120 miles. You can hear his daddy in his voice.

Excellent CD.

I’ll add a few:

James “Slim” Hand. Not well known out of Austin, much akin to Hank Sr.

Big Don Walser. Now retired. You might heard him in the CD to The Horse Whisper. Fine ole boy preserving true Texas music.

Ray Wylie Hubbard. At 40 Ray declared the party over, got clean and sober from cocaine and whiskey - with coaching from SRV - learned Travis finger picking - and has become a major singer/songwriter. Amazing repetroire.

Marcia Ball. In a league of her own. Former owner of La Zona Rosa. Big time blues pianist/singer.

Steve Earle, Houston’s bad boy, protoge of Townes van Zandt.

Townes van Zandt, greatest singer/songwriter of the 20th century. So great you don’t know him - but you know his songs through covers. Pancho & Lefty.

James McMurtry. real outlaw singer/songwriter. James McMurtry’s son, the famous writer.

Robert Earl Keen - of Bandera.

Charlie Robison, a real cowboy and hell raiser, married to Emily of the Dixie Chicks. His family been cattle ranching in Bandera since the 1840s.

Bruce Robison, Charlie’s brother, married to Kelly Willis. all singer/songwriters, all damned good.

Rosie Flores - she brings Lefty Frizzell to new life and meaning. and others.

Butch Hancock - if you ain’t heard butch, you ain’t heard much. Absolutely pales Bob Dylan. One of the Flatlanders along with Jimmie Dale Gilmore & Joe Ely.

Gurf Morlix - lives up on Lake Travis, with studio in house. Aside from his own sound, produced Lucinda Williams, produces Ray Wylie Hubbard and many others.

Asleep at the Wheel - Ray Benson & others. Keeping Bob Wills sound alive, often at the Spoke. So is coach Royal.

Alvin Crow - aint no finer fiddler, and former guitarist/singer with Doug Sahm. His treatment of Buddy Holly is exceptional, no doubt due to being also from Lubbock.

No treatment of Texas outlaws is complete without mention of the only musician who the city of Austin put up a big memorial statue of next to Town Lake - Stevie Ray Vaughan.

I humbly apologize for all the one’s I’ve forgotten or missed. Austin is just too rich a place with musicians.

[quote]kayoneill wrote:
Asleep at the Wheel - Ray Benson & others. Keeping Bob Wills sound alive, often at the Spoke. So is coach Royal.
[/quote]

I have to say - I can’t stand AATW. Nothing against them personally, but I live a stone’s throw away from Turkey, TX. It’s the hometown of Bob Wills. Guess what the only freaking live music you get in Briscoe, or Hall County, Texas is? Western Swing. It gets old real quick. Trust me.