T Nation

Our Once Fine Sport is Dying...


#1

... because of shit like this.
Idiots acting like morons.


#2

This is VERY strange. Some of these people are middle-aged and acting like they are twelve-year olds in a schoolyard.


#3

Bodybuilding is increasingly attracting a degenerate element.


#4

The subculture is in a weird state where it’s not castigated so much as viewed as perverse or freakish. I’ve been doing job interviews recently, and when I’m asked about hobbies my response relating to training is “weightlifting.” Insofar as I consider the type of weightlifting I pursue to be the subspecies relating to bodybuilding, it’s not something I’d put forward to anyone, much less being a follower of the sport.

Put one way: these days, I think that if you volunteered something like video games as a hobby, you might be thought of as less mature than a normal adult; if you put forward bodybuilding, I think you’d risk being viewed as some type of pervert. It’s hard to think of many hobbies that would be viewed as less odd than this one.


#5

I absolutely don’t get it.

Stand in line to take a hit of a preworkout and then take off my shirt and get slapped in the back by a stranger?

I guess I am officially old.


#6

I agree with the original poster immaturity is apparent. But with all due respect for those who practice bodybuilding, the “sport” lost my respect years ago when they started taking boat loads of steroids.


#7

[quote]MinusTheColon wrote:
The subculture is in a weird state where it’s not castigated so much as viewed as perverse or freakish. I’ve been doing job interviews recently, and when I’m asked about hobbies my response relating to training is “weightlifting.” Insofar as I consider the type of weightlifting I pursue to be the subspecies relating to bodybuilding, it’s not something I’d put forward to anyone, much less being a follower of the sport.

Put one way: these days, I think that if you volunteered something like video games as a hobby, you might be thought of as less mature than a normal adult; if you put forward bodybuilding, I think you’d risk being viewed as some type of pervert. It’s hard to think of many hobbies that would be viewed as less odd than this one.[/quote]

I honestly find this to be a lost cause. No matter what discipline you practice, as soon as people hear that weights are involved, you’re a “bodybuilder”.

I don’t bother clarifying at this point and just accept the compliment that people think I could be stepping on stage anytime soon, haha.


#8

People are just getting stupider and weirder everyday more so.


#9

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Bodybuilding is increasingly attracting a degenerate element. [/quote]

Though I’m a lot newer to the lifting game than you are, I’ve noticed that too, especially in the younger crowd. There don’t seem to be many good hard-working folk who just enjoy training for the sake of training these days.


#10

[quote]Apoklyps wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Bodybuilding is increasingly attracting a degenerate element. [/quote]

Though I’m a lot newer to the lifting game than you are, I’ve noticed that too, especially in the younger crowd. There don’t seem to be many good hard-working folk who just enjoy training for the sake of training these days.[/quote]

Judging from the posts of on forums these days, especially those in FB groups, I have come to the conclusion that many, perhaps even the majority, of people involved in this hobby are unsocialized. And I don’t mean unsocialized in the sense that they do not party enough or that they are not cool.

I am talking about people who have little else regarding diversions, close friendships, family relationships, and serious relationships with the opposite sex. A great deal of them actually seem unemployable judging from their writing, comprehension (some seem completely incoherent), and inability to follow the most basic advice and instructions or to stick to SOMETHING. Some even a strikingly infantile and naive outlook on this world. I remember one saying, when talking careers, that if people don’t love their jobs, they have no business doing them (oh really now?).


#11

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

Judging from the posts of on forums these days, especially those in FB groups, I have come to the conclusion that many, perhaps even the majority, of people involved in this hobby are unsocialized. And I don’t mean unsocialized in the sense that they do not party enough or that they are not cool.

I am talking about people who have little else regarding diversions, close friendships, family relationships, and serious relationships with the opposite sex. A great deal of them actually seem unemployable judging from their writing, comprehension (some seem completely incoherent), and inability to follow the most basic advice and instructions or to stick to SOMETHING. Some even a strikingly infantile and naive outlook on this world. I remember one saying, when talking careers, that if people don’t love their jobs, they have no business doing them (oh really now?). [/quote]

To be fair, the posters now compared to roughly four or five years ago just seem to be on average a much younger demographic. I do agree on the quality of the writing though: it’s bewildering to me that anyone would write some of the posts that I see on here and think “yeah, that’s acceptable.” Though I don’t think that’s necessarily reflective of the weightlifting community, as for whatever set of reasons I don’t tend to see it much on other issue-related forums.

I think the inability to follow directions consistently has more to do with time expectations and patience in a way that divorces itself from having a “lack of discipline” in the traditional sense: the issue seems more that being told that something will take several years seems incomprehensible or just wrong to anyone under 20. Everything is either “now” or not being done correctly/optimally. My only thought on why open discussion of using illegal drugs hasn’t popped up with more frequency is that today, even compared to ten years ago, the stakes seem much, much higher in terms of the consequences of having a mistake like that on your record after getting caught.

Don’t really understand how the last point is connected–certainly some “lifestyle”-type jobs aren’t worth doing if you aren’t very committed to them, particularly today when you have a set of alternatives. Ha, I wouldn’t preach that everyone on here should go set out to be a personal trainer just because they like lifting, though. But I don’t really see as much of this type of discussion on these boards.


#12

Maybe I’m also getting too old, but I obsoletely do not understand that video. What does it have to do with bodybuilding?

You snort whatever he is selling and slap each other on the back?


#13

To be fair, it has always attracted an unsavory element. They just have a channel with far more eyes now and more eyes brings more numbnuts.


#14

[quote]MinusTheColon wrote:

To be fair, the posters now compared to roughly four or five years ago just seem to be on average a much younger demographic. I do agree on the quality of the writing though: it’s bewildering to me that anyone would write some of the posts that I see on here and think “yeah, that’s acceptable.” Though I don’t think that’s necessarily reflective of the weightlifting community, as for whatever set of reasons I don’t tend to see it much on other issue-related forums.[/quote]

I wasn’t referring to T-mag. I like T-mag more than any other forum because although there are far less posters than other boards like BB or GB, most of the posters here are compassionate, mature, and intelligent (including yourself). I once was a rude, rabble-rouser of a poster here, but I repented for that and cut it out three years ago.

Perhaps I am a bit of a hard liner, but looking back on how long it took me to mature and develop into a man and recognizing this same thing in other men I grew up with, it is clear that there are some consequential things in our society that are leading to the stunted development of young people. I am no Steven King, but I think my writing is at least understandable. I might not have the best sentence structure, but at least I have received good grades on papers in school, know how to write professional emails and reports for work, work my around Microsoft Suite, and write persuasive resumes and cover letters.

There was a time before I was born in which much was expected for even children in elementary school regarding writing and reading. That has been lost, and I see adults my age struggling to write cover letters and resumes for mid-level professions (we are not talking bios of ambitious CEO’s here). They need a week until they get the most basic of thoughts on paper. And much of what I read on social media are botched, angst-laden ramblings of text speak and hip-hop slang. It is very hard to take these people seriously and I am often unsurprised when I read articles about high unemployment of young people. Granted, I do believe there is a job crisis, to this day, but posting every damn action and feeling in such ways on social media do not lend to gaining employment.

[quote]

I think the inability to follow directions consistently has more to do with time expectations and patience in a way that divorces itself from having a “lack of discipline” in the traditional sense: the issue seems more that being told that something will take several years seems incomprehensible or just wrong to anyone under 20. Everything is either “now” or not being done correctly/optimally. My only thought on why open discussion of using illegal drugs hasn’t popped up with more frequency is that today, even compared to ten years ago, the stakes seem much, much higher in terms of the consequences of having a mistake like that on your record after getting caught. [/quote]

I agree with all of this.

[quote]
Don’t really understand how the last point is connected–certainly some “lifestyle”-type jobs aren’t worth doing if you aren’t very committed to them, particularly today when you have a set of alternatives. Ha, I wouldn’t preach that everyone on here should go set out to be a personal trainer just because they like lifting, though. But I don’t really see as much of this type of discussion on these boards.[/quote]

I believe that bodybuilding, now more than ever, attracts many socially and emotionally stunted people. I don’t know whether it is from lack of strong fathers or fathers at all, which I have observed for many meatheads I have known, AND MYSELF. When people are unsure of themselves and insecure, they are aware of this, and often take on a self-absorbed, hedonistic, defensive, and mushy-headed worldview. Hence many people in the “fitness community” are always saying asinine, infantile things such as, “Who are you/we to judge?”, “Why do you care? It doesn’t hurt anybody,” “Do what you love,” “Alpha this, alpha that,” and why there is rampant misogyny expressed on boards and why guys on all these message boards are confused about how to get a woman and are trying to become more alpha and going down the PUA route, and so on. Many of them seem out of touch and downright delusional on many things.

In closing, I am NOT perfect, and much of this criticism I give here is actually applied to my former self. I too once was a lost soul that turned to this hobby to fill a void or in the hopes that I can get more out of it than one can reasonable get from a hobby regarding socialization or recognition. I hope that it helps me in working in nutrition/dietetics and am thankful that some of my closest friends were acquired by engaging in it. It’s fun, and I feel awesome doing it and am very passionate about it. But that’s where it ends, if you get the drift.

Sorry for the rambling. It shows I trust those here to speak my mind.


#15

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]MinusTheColon wrote:

To be fair, the posters now compared to roughly four or five years ago just seem to be on average a much younger demographic. I do agree on the quality of the writing though: it’s bewildering to me that anyone would write some of the posts that I see on here and think “yeah, that’s acceptable.” Though I don’t think that’s necessarily reflective of the weightlifting community, as for whatever set of reasons I don’t tend to see it much on other issue-related forums.[/quote]

I wasn’t referring to T-mag. I like T-mag more than any other forum because although there are far less posters than other boards like BB or GB, most of the posters here are compassionate, mature, and intelligent (including yourself). I once was a rude, rabble-rouser of a poster here, but I repented for that and cut it out three years ago.

Perhaps I am a bit of a hard liner, but looking back on how long it took me to mature and develop into a man and recognizing this same thing in other men I grew up with, it is clear that there are some consequential things in our society that are leading to the stunted development of young people. I am no Steven King, but I think my writing is at least understandable. I might not have the best sentence structure, but at least I have received good grades on papers in school, know how to write professional emails and reports for work, work my around Microsoft Suite, and write persuasive resumes and cover letters.

There was a time before I was born in which much was expected for even children in elementary school regarding writing and reading. That has been lost, and I see adults my age struggling to write cover letters and resumes for mid-level professions (we are not talking bios of ambitious CEO’s here). They need a week until they get the most basic of thoughts on paper. And much of what I read on social media are botched, angst-laden ramblings of text speak and hip-hop slang. It is very hard to take these people seriously and I am often unsurprised when I read articles about high unemployment of young people. Granted, I do believe there is a job crisis, to this day, but posting every damn action and feeling in such ways on social media do not lend to gaining employment.

[quote]

I think the inability to follow directions consistently has more to do with time expectations and patience in a way that divorces itself from having a “lack of discipline” in the traditional sense: the issue seems more that being told that something will take several years seems incomprehensible or just wrong to anyone under 20. Everything is either “now” or not being done correctly/optimally. My only thought on why open discussion of using illegal drugs hasn’t popped up with more frequency is that today, even compared to ten years ago, the stakes seem much, much higher in terms of the consequences of having a mistake like that on your record after getting caught. [/quote]

I agree with all of this.

[quote]
Don’t really understand how the last point is connected–certainly some “lifestyle”-type jobs aren’t worth doing if you aren’t very committed to them, particularly today when you have a set of alternatives. Ha, I wouldn’t preach that everyone on here should go set out to be a personal trainer just because they like lifting, though. But I don’t really see as much of this type of discussion on these boards.[/quote]

I believe that bodybuilding, now more than ever, attracts many socially and emotionally stunted people. I don’t know whether it is from lack of strong fathers or fathers at all, which I have observed for many meatheads I have known, AND MYSELF. When people are unsure of themselves and insecure, they are aware of this, and often take on a self-absorbed, hedonistic, defensive, and mushy-headed worldview. Hence many people in the “fitness community” are always saying asinine, infantile things such as, “Who are you/we to judge?”, “Why do you care? It doesn’t hurt anybody,” “Do what you love,” “Alpha this, alpha that,” and why there is rampant misogyny expressed on boards and why guys on all these message boards are confused about how to get a woman and are trying to become more alpha and going down the PUA route, and so on. Many of them seem out of touch and downright delusional on many things.

In closing, I am NOT perfect, and much of this criticism I give here is actually applied to my former self. I too once was a lost soul that turned to this hobby to fill a void or in the hopes that I can get more out of it than one can reasonable get from a hobby regarding socialization or recognition. I hope that it helps me in working in nutrition/dietetics and am thankful that some of my closest friends were acquired by engaging in it. It’s fun, and I feel awesome doing it and am very passionate about it. But that’s where it ends, if you get the drift.

Sorry for the rambling. It shows I trust those here to speak my mind. [/quote]

I don’t follow bodybuilding,but, this is an excellent post, wise observations that carry way beyond curling some weights.


#16

[quote]tsantos wrote:
To be fair, it has always attracted an unsavory element. They just have a channel with far more eyes now and more eyes brings more numbnuts.[/quote]

Exactly, we had to read about the crazy things they did decades ago, then look at them like they can’t possibly be true. With videos everywhere, there’s no denying stuff. This video is just some lame attention grabbing marketing ploy.

People do realize a lot of this stuff started in the Circus?


#17

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]MinusTheColon wrote:

To be fair, the posters now compared to roughly four or five years ago just seem to be on average a much younger demographic. I do agree on the quality of the writing though: it’s bewildering to me that anyone would write some of the posts that I see on here and think “yeah, that’s acceptable.” Though I don’t think that’s necessarily reflective of the weightlifting community, as for whatever set of reasons I don’t tend to see it much on other issue-related forums.[/quote]

I wasn’t referring to T-mag. I like T-mag more than any other forum because although there are far less posters than other boards like BB or GB, most of the posters here are compassionate, mature, and intelligent (including yourself). I once was a rude, rabble-rouser of a poster here, but I repented for that and cut it out three years ago.

Perhaps I am a bit of a hard liner, but looking back on how long it took me to mature and develop into a man and recognizing this same thing in other men I grew up with, it is clear that there are some consequential things in our society that are leading to the stunted development of young people. I am no Steven King, but I think my writing is at least understandable. I might not have the best sentence structure, but at least I have received good grades on papers in school, know how to write professional emails and reports for work, work my around Microsoft Suite, and write persuasive resumes and cover letters.

There was a time before I was born in which much was expected for even children in elementary school regarding writing and reading. That has been lost, and I see adults my age struggling to write cover letters and resumes for mid-level professions (we are not talking bios of ambitious CEO’s here). They need a week until they get the most basic of thoughts on paper. And much of what I read on social media are botched, angst-laden ramblings of text speak and hip-hop slang. It is very hard to take these people seriously and I am often unsurprised when I read articles about high unemployment of young people. Granted, I do believe there is a job crisis, to this day, but posting every damn action and feeling in such ways on social media do not lend to gaining employment.

[quote]

I think the inability to follow directions consistently has more to do with time expectations and patience in a way that divorces itself from having a “lack of discipline” in the traditional sense: the issue seems more that being told that something will take several years seems incomprehensible or just wrong to anyone under 20. Everything is either “now” or not being done correctly/optimally. My only thought on why open discussion of using illegal drugs hasn’t popped up with more frequency is that today, even compared to ten years ago, the stakes seem much, much higher in terms of the consequences of having a mistake like that on your record after getting caught. [/quote]

I agree with all of this.

[quote]
Don’t really understand how the last point is connected–certainly some “lifestyle”-type jobs aren’t worth doing if you aren’t very committed to them, particularly today when you have a set of alternatives. Ha, I wouldn’t preach that everyone on here should go set out to be a personal trainer just because they like lifting, though. But I don’t really see as much of this type of discussion on these boards.[/quote]

I believe that bodybuilding, now more than ever, attracts many socially and emotionally stunted people. I don’t know whether it is from lack of strong fathers or fathers at all, which I have observed for many meatheads I have known, AND MYSELF. When people are unsure of themselves and insecure, they are aware of this, and often take on a self-absorbed, hedonistic, defensive, and mushy-headed worldview. Hence many people in the “fitness community” are always saying asinine, infantile things such as, “Who are you/we to judge?”, “Why do you care? It doesn’t hurt anybody,” “Do what you love,” “Alpha this, alpha that,” and why there is rampant misogyny expressed on boards and why guys on all these message boards are confused about how to get a woman and are trying to become more alpha and going down the PUA route, and so on. Many of them seem out of touch and downright delusional on many things.

In closing, I am NOT perfect, and much of this criticism I give here is actually applied to my former self. I too once was a lost soul that turned to this hobby to fill a void or in the hopes that I can get more out of it than one can reasonable get from a hobby regarding socialization or recognition. I hope that it helps me in working in nutrition/dietetics and am thankful that some of my closest friends were acquired by engaging in it. It’s fun, and I feel awesome doing it and am very passionate about it. But that’s where it ends, if you get the drift.

Sorry for the rambling. It shows I trust those here to speak my mind. [/quote]

Damn good post, Brick.


#18

[quote]CLUNK wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]MinusTheColon wrote:

To be fair, the posters now compared to roughly four or five years ago just seem to be on average a much younger demographic. I do agree on the quality of the writing though: it’s bewildering to me that anyone would write some of the posts that I see on here and think “yeah, that’s acceptable.” Though I don’t think that’s necessarily reflective of the weightlifting community, as for whatever set of reasons I don’t tend to see it much on other issue-related forums.[/quote]

I wasn’t referring to T-mag. I like T-mag more than any other forum because although there are far less posters than other boards like BB or GB, most of the posters here are compassionate, mature, and intelligent (including yourself). I once was a rude, rabble-rouser of a poster here, but I repented for that and cut it out three years ago.

Perhaps I am a bit of a hard liner, but looking back on how long it took me to mature and develop into a man and recognizing this same thing in other men I grew up with, it is clear that there are some consequential things in our society that are leading to the stunted development of young people. I am no Steven King, but I think my writing is at least understandable. I might not have the best sentence structure, but at least I have received good grades on papers in school, know how to write professional emails and reports for work, work my around Microsoft Suite, and write persuasive resumes and cover letters.

There was a time before I was born in which much was expected for even children in elementary school regarding writing and reading. That has been lost, and I see adults my age struggling to write cover letters and resumes for mid-level professions (we are not talking bios of ambitious CEO’s here). They need a week until they get the most basic of thoughts on paper. And much of what I read on social media are botched, angst-laden ramblings of text speak and hip-hop slang. It is very hard to take these people seriously and I am often unsurprised when I read articles about high unemployment of young people. Granted, I do believe there is a job crisis, to this day, but posting every damn action and feeling in such ways on social media do not lend to gaining employment.

[quote]

I think the inability to follow directions consistently has more to do with time expectations and patience in a way that divorces itself from having a “lack of discipline” in the traditional sense: the issue seems more that being told that something will take several years seems incomprehensible or just wrong to anyone under 20. Everything is either “now” or not being done correctly/optimally. My only thought on why open discussion of using illegal drugs hasn’t popped up with more frequency is that today, even compared to ten years ago, the stakes seem much, much higher in terms of the consequences of having a mistake like that on your record after getting caught. [/quote]

I agree with all of this.

Thanks!


#19

[quote]idaho wrote:
[

I don’t follow bodybuilding,but, this is an excellent post, wise observations that carry way beyond curling some weights.
[/quote]

Thanks.


#20

[quote]Airtruth wrote:

[quote]tsantos wrote:
To be fair, it has always attracted an unsavory element. They just have a channel with far more eyes now and more eyes brings more numbnuts.[/quote]

Exactly, we had to read about the crazy things they did decades ago, then look at them like they can’t possibly be true. With videos everywhere, there’s no denying stuff. This video is just some lame attention grabbing marketing ploy.

People do realize a lot of this stuff started in the Circus?[/quote]

True! Some of the guys in the 70’s were lunatics and wound up busted and homeless or addicted to drugs. Check out Pete Grymkowski. The guy was a homeless nut who lived on Burger King, trained for hours in the middle of the night, and slept on a beach.