Our Country is on it's Way Down the Toilet

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
21

[quote]LarryDavid wrote:
horsepuss wrote:
Like muslims allowed free speach within our borders.I think reasons like that are what is really gonna be the downfall of this land.

Are you for real? And no one else said anything about this-some people in the thread even agreed with this.

WTF

EDIT: I missed Chi Towns first post, and Iron Dwarf’s post didn’t show up until now, but still, what fuck is up with the people agreeing?[/quote]

Freedom and security are by their nature mutually exclusive.

Right leaning conservatives are generally more comfortable with giving up a relative amount of freedom in exchange for greater security, while left leaning liberals are generally more confortable sacrificing absolute security in exchange for a greater range of freedom. Viewpoints tend to range wildly in both directions, and strong opinions are magnetic. You will either be attracted or repulsed based on your polarity.

22

[quote]Vires Eternus wrote:
LarryDavid wrote:
horsepuss wrote:
Like muslims allowed free speach within our borders.I think reasons like that are what is really gonna be the downfall of this land.

Are you for real? And no one else said anything about this-some people in the thread even agreed with this.

WTF

EDIT: I missed Chi Towns first post, and Iron Dwarf’s post didn’t show up until now, but still, what fuck is up with the people agreeing?

Freedom and security are by their nature mutually exclusive.

Right leaning conservatives are generally more comfortable with giving up a relative amount of freedom in exchange for greater security, while left leaning liberals are generally more confortable sacrificing absolute security in exchange for a greater range of freedom. [/quote]

I’m not so sure about this…I think a lot of people on the right were disturbed at the restrictions on freedom that came in the name of increased security. That’s big government too. And I don’t think restricting the free speech of a religious group really falls under right or left anyway.

However, I’m not the guy to argue this, so I’ll leave it to someone else.

Sure. But this is a discussion forum.

23

[quote]polo77j wrote:
Chi-Towns-Finest wrote:
Soon free speech will be a thing of the past, there are congressmen trying to do away with it. On another note, why should one religion be allowed free speech and not another.

It’s posts like this that make me shake my head and think I’m the only person with some god damn knowledge about how our government works. Stop being so damn paranoid and naive. There’s are 3 branches of government and a bicameral legislation for a god damn reason.

If some piece of legislation passes in the house that’s none-sense chances are it won’t pass in the Senate making it almost impossible for the President to put his John Hancock on it making it law. ON TOP OF THAT, if it’s contradictory to the Constitution which all federal employees are take an Oath to uphold and protect to be sworn into office, the SUPREME COURT can deem in unconstitutional making it null and void.

PLUS, if you don’t like something you have the RIGHT protected by the same Constitution to take proper action against said law, action you don’t like. You can organize and protest, call your state Rep/Senator and if they don’t do anything you can organize people to vote his ass out of office.

You can also introduce legislation yourself, through your elected official who HAS TO present it to the floor of the House.

So, in closing, STFU. The Bill of Rights isn’t going anywhere and stop your god damn bitching. If you don’t like what the Muslims are saying guess what, you can formally submit the right to protest RIGHT NEXT TO THEM ON THE SAME GOD DAMN DAY. Wanna know what’ll happen? Do ya champ? They’ll deny YOUR request AS WELL AS THEIR REQUEST. It would be unconstitutional to DENY ONE OR THE OTHER.

So, read a god damn book and stop listening to the Glenn Becks and the talking heads on MSNBC. They’re trying to keep you dumb and, fuck me, they’re succeeding. Things aren’t as bad as the Media portrays it. Grow a brain, grow some balls, and do something about it instead of whining and waiting for someone else to do it. Shit.

I’m going to a bar and drinking heavily.[/quote]

I nominate for post of the day. Polo knows his shit.

24

[quote]3hitter wrote:
polo77j wrote:
Chi-Towns-Finest wrote:
Soon free speech will be a thing of the past, there are congressmen trying to do away with it. On another note, why should one religion be allowed free speech and not another.

It’s posts like this that make me shake my head and think I’m the only person with some god damn knowledge about how our government works. Stop being so damn paranoid and naive. There’s are 3 branches of government and a bicameral legislation for a god damn reason.

If some piece of legislation passes in the house that’s none-sense chances are it won’t pass in the Senate making it almost impossible for the President to put his John Hancock on it making it law. ON TOP OF THAT, if it’s contradictory to the Constitution which all federal employees are take an Oath to uphold and protect to be sworn into office, the SUPREME COURT can deem in unconstitutional making it null and void.

PLUS, if you don’t like something you have the RIGHT protected by the same Constitution to take proper action against said law, action you don’t like. You can organize and protest, call your state Rep/Senator and if they don’t do anything you can organize people to vote his ass out of office.

You can also introduce legislation yourself, through your elected official who HAS TO present it to the floor of the House.

So, in closing, STFU. The Bill of Rights isn’t going anywhere and stop your god damn bitching. If you don’t like what the Muslims are saying guess what, you can formally submit the right to protest RIGHT NEXT TO THEM ON THE SAME GOD DAMN DAY. Wanna know what’ll happen? Do ya champ? They’ll deny YOUR request AS WELL AS THEIR REQUEST. It would be unconstitutional to DENY ONE OR THE OTHER.

So, read a god damn book and stop listening to the Glenn Becks and the talking heads on MSNBC. They’re trying to keep you dumb and, fuck me, they’re succeeding. Things aren’t as bad as the Media portrays it. Grow a brain, grow some balls, and do something about it instead of whining and waiting for someone else to do it. Shit.

I’m going to a bar and drinking heavily.

You seriously believe the system works that well? [/quote]

It has the potential to, yes

Have you ever taken action against or for something or have you only watched the news?

I’ve been in contact with my state reps (state level not my congressman) and have gotten some things done. I’m actively participating in the campaign by Earl Sholley to unseat Barney Frank in as my district congressman.

So, yes, I"m not cynical or inactive about the legislators I send to congress or to the state house or in local elections for that matter.

25

[quote]LarryDavid wrote:
Vires Eternus wrote:
LarryDavid wrote:
horsepuss wrote:
Like muslims allowed free speach within our borders.I think reasons like that are what is really gonna be the downfall of this land.

I’m not so sure about this…I think a lot of people on the right were disturbed at the restrictions on freedom that came in the name of increased security. That’s big government too. And I don’t think restricting the free speech of a religious group really falls under right or left anyway.

The point I was making was about the obvious tendencies of one ‘general’ mindset as opposed to another. It’s not an absolute rule, thus the term ‘tend’. Many on either side will take a moderate stance when faced with an extreme version of either freedom over security or security over freedom, just as many more will take a very extreme point of view.

Imagine a truly secure U.S. where you have a State passport and border control and customs at each State line. Tolls for every major highway and bridge in the country to offset the cost of securing them. Armed guards on every major public transit system and European tax levels to help fund it all.

That scenario either frightens comforts or confuses you.
Restriction of religious freedoms is a halmark of our national response to threat. Jehovah’s Witnesses we’re beaten on the streets and imprisoned by officials during WW2 because they didn’t support warfare and wouldn’t take part in the conflict. Legislation went all the way to the supreme court to have all their ‘preaching’ activities banned and make it illegal for them to practice their religion as they saw fit.

We were not even fighting JWs then, but because they said something we didn’t like we went after them in more ways then one.

Now we face a legitimate militant threat that is very closely tied to a specific religion. Did you think the public reaction would be any different?

I would like to think we have matured and evolved at leat a bit, but am personally never shocked to see we haven’t.

EDIT: The actions taken against the JWs mentioned before occured in the US.

26

[quote]Standard Donkey wrote:
bluefingas wrote:
horsepuss wrote:
You think this country is ging down the shitter because of the fat people.

I can think of lots and lots of thing that piss me off more than the fatties.

Like muslims allowed free speach within our borders.I think reasons like that are what is really gonna be the downfall of this land.

That and politicians

x2
Plus shit like spending tax payer money on programs for illegal immigrants.
I don’t care about obesity. I’m not fat, so fuck it. Let fat people do what they want. Being obese is a choice.

Well how then are liberals supposed to get elected?

illegal immigrants are Americans too.[/quote]

No they aren’t. Jumping the border illegally doesn’t make you American.

27

polo77j You are a rare breed indeed.

I think the key word would be “potential”. Once upon a time it had great potential, but since has become so bastardized(sp?) that potential will not be realized.

Yes, I have done as you. Called, wrote, emailed, and even helped a local campaign. I believe most of our elected officials enter our service with good intetions. They are soon over come and fall victim to a system that has no “true” checks and balances.

28

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Chi-Towns-Finest wrote:
bluefingas wrote:
horsepuss wrote:
You think this country is ging down the shitter because of the fat people.

I can think of lots and lots of thing that piss me off more than the fatties.

Like muslims allowed free speach within our borders.I think reasons like that are what is really gonna be the downfall of this land.

That and politicians

x2
Plus shit like spending tax payer money on programs for illegal immigrants.
I don’t care about obesity. I’m not fat, so fuck it. Let fat people do what they want. Being obese is a choice.

Or tax-payer dollars on jailing non-violent drug abusers for that matter. Legalize everything, addiction should not be a criminal offense. It’s a personal problem, and unless they’re out robbing people on the street corner I don’t see why they should be jailed with rapists and murders. Regulation and control ALWAYS works better than prohibition.

How would you regulate and control the use of illegal-turned-legal drugs??

Granted,they can be legal and regulated like alcohol…BUT how would you determine if a person is within a “legal limit” of being high on crack cocaine,heroin,or meth??

[/quote]

I have to agree with you Boss.

When the government gave up on fighting Prohibition, they never really got control of alcohol, even when it became legal. We have more incidents of drunk driving, than many other countries. The same way people drive drunk, or go to work drunk, they could easily do the same thing high or under the influence of a drug. Hell, some airline pilot was detained when he was found to be legally drunk before he was preparing to fly the plane! Imagine the catastrophe he could have caused, hundreds dead or injured, just because he “thinks” he is ok to fly.

Legalization will not solve the problem, because some people will always be stupid regardless.

29

I formally apologize. I should have directed my responses in the form of a PM to Larry David instead of contributing to a thread hijack.

I really can’t talk about the childhood obesity originally the focus of this discussion. I was so skinny growing up you could see my internal organs working, and I ate everything I could get my hands on. I used to save up 78 cents so I could walk to IGA and buy a quart of half and half and would drink the whole thing on the way home.

My poor son eats lean meet and veggies and has a strictly monitored and controlled diet, but still falls in the classification of obese. We make sure he gets a lot of physical activity to, but for whatever reason he stubbornly holds onto the weight. My wife and son go to a bootcamp style fitness class 2 to three times a week, and the kid can do 50 situps easy without breaking a sweat.

In running club 2 years ago he was able to run an 8 minute mile by the end of the year, which for his short legs was pretty amazing. Yet he still has a beer keg of a body. Maybe there is something to all this talk of xenoestrogens.

30

[quote]3hitter wrote:
polo77j You are a rare breed indeed.

I think the key word would be “potential”. Once upon a time it had great potential, but since has become so bastardized(sp?) that potential will not be realized.

Yes, I have done as you. Called, wrote, emailed, and even helped a local campaign. I believe most of our elected officials enter our service with good intetions. They are soon over come and fall victim to a system that has no “true” checks and balances. [/quote]

Well, that’s where you and I disagree. I do congratulate you on your activism; it’s becoming a rare occurance.

The system of checks and balances is still in place and has been for over 233 years. Here’s where you cynicism and my optimism come into play; you’re under the impression that the elected officials enter our service with good intentions but become overwhelmed by the amount of cynicism present in the legislature. You think that’s it’s a never ending vicious cycle where I believe we can change it.

It all starts with you. That’s what’s great about this country; if we can influence the people in our districts and our brothers and sisters in other districts we make a difference. It’s a tough job, but worth every bead of sweat.

I’ve been witness to the system working and I believe it to be true it can and will on a much larger scale.

31

[quote]Vires Eternus wrote:
I formally apologize. I should have directed my responses in the form of a PM to Larry David instead of contributing to a thread hijack.

I really can’t talk about the childhood obesity originally the focus of this discussion. I was so skinny growing up you could see my internal organs working, and I ate everything I could get my hands on. I used to save up 78 cents so I could walk to IGA and buy a quart of half and half and would drink the whole thing on the way home.

My poor son eats lean meet and veggies and has a strictly monitored and controlled diet, but still falls in the classification of obese. We make sure he gets a lot of physical activity to, but for whatever reason he stubbornly holds onto the weight. My wife and son go to a bootcamp style fitness class 2 to three times a week, and the kid can do 50 situps easy without breaking a sweat.

In running club 2 years ago he was able to run an 8 minute mile by the end of the year, which for his short legs was pretty amazing. Yet he still has a beer keg of a body. Maybe there is something to all this talk of xenoestrogens. [/quote]

Yes some obesity may simply be caused by laziness, but I don’t believe that all of it is. I have kids at different ends of the battle. My son can eat none stop anything that he wants. He stays lean. My daughter, not so easy. They are both highly active, but I have to say she is more so than he is. Yet, without a strict, really strict diet she would balloon up!

32

[quote]polo77j wrote:
3hitter wrote:
polo77j You are a rare breed indeed.

I think the key word would be “potential”. Once upon a time it had great potential, but since has become so bastardized(sp?) that potential will not be realized.

Yes, I have done as you. Called, wrote, emailed, and even helped a local campaign. I believe most of our elected officials enter our service with good intetions. They are soon over come and fall victim to a system that has no “true” checks and balances.

Well, that’s where you and I disagree. I do congratulate you on your activism; it’s becoming a rare occurance.

The system of checks and balances is still in place and has been for over 233 years. Here’s where you cynicism and my optimism come into play; you’re under the impression that the elected officials enter our service with good intentions but become overwhelmed by the amount of cynicism present in the legislature. You think that’s it’s a never ending vicious cycle where I believe we can change it.

It all starts with you. That’s what’s great about this country; if we can influence the people in our districts and our brothers and sisters in other districts we make a difference. It’s a tough job, but worth every bead of sweat.

I’ve been witness to the system working and I believe it to be true it can and will on a much larger scale.

[/quote]

Agree to disagree. Although we both would like the final outcome to be the same. I may have more hope if there were term limits put into place for our legislature. We don’t allow more than two terms for our President but it stops there.

33

[quote]3hitter wrote:
polo77j wrote:
3hitter wrote:
polo77j You are a rare breed indeed.

I think the key word would be “potential”. Once upon a time it had great potential, but since has become so bastardized(sp?) that potential will not be realized.

Yes, I have done as you. Called, wrote, emailed, and even helped a local campaign. I believe most of our elected officials enter our service with good intetions. They are soon over come and fall victim to a system that has no “true” checks and balances.

Well, that’s where you and I disagree. I do congratulate you on your activism; it’s becoming a rare occurance.

The system of checks and balances is still in place and has been for over 233 years. Here’s where you cynicism and my optimism come into play; you’re under the impression that the elected officials enter our service with good intentions but become overwhelmed by the amount of cynicism present in the legislature. You think that’s it’s a never ending vicious cycle where I believe we can change it.

It all starts with you. That’s what’s great about this country; if we can influence the people in our districts and our brothers and sisters in other districts we make a difference. It’s a tough job, but worth every bead of sweat.

I’ve been witness to the system working and I believe it to be true it can and will on a much larger scale.

Agree to disagree. Although we both would like the final outcome to be the same. I may have more hope if there were term limits put into place for our legislature. We don’t allow more than two terms for our President but it stops there. [/quote]

Agree

34

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Chi-Towns-Finest wrote:
bluefingas wrote:
horsepuss wrote:
You think this country is ging down the shitter because of the fat people.

I can think of lots and lots of thing that piss me off more than the fatties.

Like muslims allowed free speach within our borders.I think reasons like that are what is really gonna be the downfall of this land.

That and politicians

x2
Plus shit like spending tax payer money on programs for illegal immigrants.
I don’t care about obesity. I’m not fat, so fuck it. Let fat people do what they want. Being obese is a choice.

Or tax-payer dollars on jailing non-violent drug abusers for that matter. Legalize everything, addiction should not be a criminal offense. It’s a personal problem, and unless they’re out robbing people on the street corner I don’t see why they should be jailed with rapists and murders. Regulation and control ALWAYS works better than prohibition.

How would you regulate and control the use of illegal-turned-legal drugs??

Granted,they can be legal and regulated like alcohol…BUT how would you determine if a person is within a “legal limit” of being high on crack cocaine,heroin,or meth??

I have to agree with you Boss.

When the government gave up on fighting Prohibition, they never really got control of alcohol, even when it became legal. We have more incidents of drunk driving, than many other countries. The same way people drive drunk, or go to work drunk, they could easily do the same thing high or under the influence of a drug. Hell, some airline pilot was detained when he was found to be legally drunk before he was preparing to fly the plane! Imagine the catastrophe he could have caused, hundreds dead or injured, just because he “thinks” he is ok to fly.

Legalization will not solve the problem, because some people will always be stupid regardless.

[/quote]

Exactly…that’s my biggest thing with legalizing drugs. Imagine the pilot who thinks he’s ok to fly after taking hits from some hard drugs.

We know what to expect from a person who is drunk from alcohol before we could with a person high on meth,crack,or acid. That’s a too huge of a disparity to risk,imo.

35

[quote]Standard Donkey wrote:
bluefingas wrote:
horsepuss wrote:
You think this country is ging down the shitter because of the fat people.

I can think of lots and lots of thing that piss me off more than the fatties.

Like muslims allowed free speach within our borders.I think reasons like that are what is really gonna be the downfall of this land.

That and politicians

x2
Plus shit like spending tax payer money on programs for illegal immigrants.
I don’t care about obesity. I’m not fat, so fuck it. Let fat people do what they want. Being obese is a choice.

Well how then are liberals supposed to get elected?

illegal immigrants are Americans too.[/quote]

Illegal immigrants are americans too, are you refering to the fact that mexico and sout america are AMERICA.

In that sense you are wrong.

36

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Living well is the best revenge. Raise your children properly and you help reduce the problem for generations to come.

Too many crybabies around here lately.

And Horsepuss, if you expect your gov to limit rights of legal Muslims in the US, then what racial, ethnic, or faith group is next? Think about it. “Sieg Heil”[/quote]

I dont remember learning about all the radical germany hating jews preachng there hatred for germany on street corners and trying to recruit deciples.

37

Mods: Move to PWI.

38

[quote]LarryDavid wrote:
horsepuss wrote:
Like muslims allowed free speach within our borders.I think reasons like that are what is really gonna be the downfall of this land.

Are you for real? And no one else said anything about this-some people in the thread even agreed with this.

WTF

EDIT: I missed Chi Towns first post, and Iron Dwarf’s post didn’t show up until now, but still, what fuck is up with the people agreeing?[/quote]
people agree because radical muslims suck!!!

39

[quote]horsepuss wrote:
Iron Dwarf wrote:
Living well is the best revenge. Raise your children properly and you help reduce the problem for generations to come.

Too many crybabies around here lately.

And Horsepuss, if you expect your gov to limit rights of legal Muslims in the US, then what racial, ethnic, or faith group is next? Think about it. “Sieg Heil”

I dont remember learning about all the radical germany hating jews preachng there hatred for germany on street corners and trying to recruit deciples.

[/quote]

So to help you out…you meant radical muslims…not ALL muslims…right?

40

[quote]horsepuss wrote:
LarryDavid wrote:
horsepuss wrote:
Like muslims allowed free speach within our borders.I think reasons like that are what is really gonna be the downfall of this land.

Are you for real? And no one else said anything about this-some people in the thread even agreed with this.

WTF

EDIT: I missed Chi Towns first post, and Iron Dwarf’s post didn’t show up until now, but still, what fuck is up with the people agreeing?
people agree because radical muslims suck!!!

[/quote]

Dood, if you silence them, all you are really going to be doing is causing them to be unknown to society. I say give them an open forum, it will be easier to defeat them if/when they do try some shit. You know who they are, and what they stand for. If you make them be silent, they will just recruit and meet and talk in secret and then our job of identifying them becomes harder.

V