[quote]pat36 wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
The fact is Bush sent your amazing soldiers to fight a war that he picked and that should (and could easily) have been avoided.
The fact is that he’s loosing that war.
No amount of measuring the degree of amazingness of your soldiers is going to change that.
Let’s see, The U.S. completely removed the replaced the government and dismantled its military. Whether you agree with the war or not, I’d hardly call that losing. The insurgency being worse than anticipated was a stupid mistake but not a lost cause. The insurgency is an act of desperation rather than an organized military force to be reckoned with. You can love or hate bush all you want, but the Iraqis had their ass handed to them and so did the Afghanis for that matter.
If somebody came to our country and wiped out our government and pushed it in to hiding, I doubt we could claim victory just because we are managing to destabilize the new establishment.
[/quote]
[quote]pat36 wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
The fact is Bush sent your amazing soldiers to fight a war that he picked and that should (and could easily) have been avoided.
The fact is that he’s loosing that war.
No amount of measuring the degree of amazingness of your soldiers is going to change that.
Let’s see, The U.S. completely removed the replaced the government and dismantled its military. Whether you agree with the war or not, I’d hardly call that losing. The insurgency being worse than anticipated was a stupid mistake but not a lost cause. The insurgency is an act of desperation rather than an organized military force to be reckoned with. You can love or hate bush all you want, but the Iraqis had their ass handed to them and so did the Afghanis for that matter.
If somebody came to our country and wiped out our government and pushed it in to hiding, I doubt we could claim victory just because we are managing to destabilize the new establishment.
[/quote]
What?! If a country invaded us, defeated our army, and we eventually drove them out through terrorism/guerrilla warfare, they won? You’re not making sense.
[quote]pwilliams wrote:
Thanks to most of you for the positive remarks regarding those of us serving over here.
I wish more Americans could separate the appreciation of American servicemembers from feelings about the political difficulties of the war, as many posters here seem to be able to do.
Example…I have an uncle I’d looked up to since I was a child who stopped communicating with me because he stated he can’t separate support for the soldiers from support for the war. Was a real disappointment. He’s a teacher in Oregon and a West Point drop-out. I got over it, but still disappointing.[/quote]
Great post, but bear in mind it goes both ways. Some people on the right, often the same people who dodged Vietnam with “anal cysts” or student deferments, lionize the military to the point where they think it is above reproach, regardless of the facts on the ground.
There is no one I have more respect for than guys on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan, but that doesn’t mean I think we should ignore some of the troubling, if uncommon, abuses that have gone on in both places.
[quote]GDollars37 wrote:
pat36 wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
What?! If a country invaded us, defeated our army, and we eventually drove them out through terrorism/guerrilla warfare, they won? You’re not making sense.[/quote]
What?! We pulled out of Iraq and Afganistan?
Nope we’re still there. Actually, the more they attack us the more of us they get to see. Look at out military presence in the middle east, pre and post nine-eleven. I believe you will notice a dramatic increase in American military presence.
[quote]pat36 wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:
pat36 wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
What?! If a country invaded us, defeated our army, and we eventually drove them out through terrorism/guerrilla warfare, they won? You’re not making sense.
What?! We pulled out of Iraq and Afganistan?
Nope we’re still there. Actually, the more they attack us the more of us they get to see. Look at out military presence in the middle east, pre and post nine-eleven. I believe you will notice a dramatic increase in American military presence. [/quote]
Thanks buddy, that was news to me. I’m talking about the way things are clearly heading. Most government spin aside, we are losing in both places, and I’d be suprised if we have the political will (and maybe the popular will) to stay in Iraq for more than another two years in meaningful numbers, i.e. 100,000+ soldiers. Hopefully I’ll be proven wrong, but I doubt it.