T Nation

OT: GP/PCP Ignorance


#1

I like to get regular blood tests - hormone, BP and Cholesterol panel fairly regularly.. preferably every 3-4 months.
I also have moved around a lot over the past few years.. both the UK and the States - and my last blood panel was done in Manchester.

So.. having moved 'back home' i decided to confront a medical professional at my local doctors surgery about my bloods. I honestly explained my goals, my AAS use, my current doses.. and she was clueless.

She firstly stuttered in her questions, she didn't know WHAT to ask. She then asked where i got it and if it was supervised! As you can understand i was deeply insulted - my injections are not supervised as i likely have carried out more than her over the past 10 years, and my method of use is supervised by some of the most intelligent AAS users on the planet ;p
I explained/demonstrated some of the understanding i had of the drugs and their protocols for effective use - along with some basic male endocrinology - not to show off you understand, but merely to display that i needed no such lecture as i had more information about the subject than her, and she explained that they didn't like to do such tests unless it was in conjunction with their own prescriptions!

I was disgusted. My money pays for my own service in the NHS, and if i make a medical (my own body, my own life) decision that could be considered risky WITHOUT medical care and attention, they STILL won't assist me in my endeavours to be as healthy as possible.

I was pissed.

They did book me in - but i didn't go there for a lecture from someone who CLEARLY has no idea about such drugs (which was freely admitted to me as well) - i went to make sure my health is not a concern.

I just wanted to vent this on this site - as there are a lot of people who put a lot of trust into their PCP/GP here, and are surprised when the GP advises some draconian point of view.

Brook


#2

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#3

Brook,

That appointment with you must have sprouted few extra grey hairs for the doc. I am sure it is fodder for many future conversations.

Would have loved to be a fly on the wall :wink:


#4

shakes head slowly with clenched jaw


#5

Mine too - with my own experiences and the many stories from other 'victims' - i have very little faith in the field of local healthcare.


#6

lol! I wasn't too bad actually - i realise that there is nothing more annoying to a fully qualified doctor or nurse than some unqualified know-it-all who has read a book... If i tried to 'show-off' there would have been no faster way of getting exactly the opposite of what i wanted.

I was polite, friendly and most importantly non patronizing, whilst making sure she had confidence in my experience and education on the subject - rather than looking like a twat :wink:


#7

one of two doctors that i see on a regular basis has "grave concern" over my creatine usage. i cant even fathom what his reaction would be to my aas usage.


#8

Shes clearly a crap doctor, but I understand her position. They dont teach us anything about AAS use in med school except to mention one time that steroids are the devil, so I can see how she would have been at a complete loss as to how to approach your situation, and that would have affected her judgment/what she said/did.


#9

one of my classes that covered non narcotic illegal drug usage had a section on steroids. The majority of the already sparse reading covered roid rage and considered usage as "questionable or unlikely" in terms of producing sports and body enhancing effects...

yea and a few times ive had to see another GP when mine was on vacation, i got the creatine lecture and that i should drop weight becuase my BMI said i was chronically obese...


#10

I have no faith in most doctors (hell, I work with six of them), unless you go to a specialist that is extremely well versed in your area of concern. And forget asking them anything about sports medicine, supplements, or AAS. Most GPs never even broach the subject in school.

My ENDOCRINOLOGIST (that's right, a specialist) had no clue how to prescribe the TRT that she herself recommended, and wanted to dose me at 400 mg once a month. After she became very defensive when I said I wouldn't mind dividing the dose and injecting more often to prevent hormonal peaks and troughs, I said forget reasoning with her and just give myself the shot once a week. She has run not one CBC, CMP, PSA, or lipid panel on me since starting TRT a year ago. I have to get them done myself at my work.

In your case, Brook, I think it's funny that you can be a lifelong smoker, alcoholic, or obese person and no doctor will refuse to take a chest xray or run liver function or cholesterol tests, even though the doc didn't prescribe the cigarettes, alcohol, or food. But want to use AAS safely and you're on your own.


#11

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#12

Oh i suspected as much, and while i understnad as much as you how this would affect her reaction, it is simply outrageous.

I remember in the 90's Ecstacy was considered a very dangeroius drug.. BUT as the death toll DIDN'T mount up, and as it was clear is simply didn't do the damage that people expected - they reduced its classification.

Trouble is, i bet most docs dont see the effects of steroids till some dickhead comes in with gyno or impotence from an incorrectly ran cycle - hence the reason this site/forum tries to help as it does - with tough love.

:wink:


#13

This site - plus the other few i frequent - is a haven. It is because i can rant about such issues (and to my g/f luckily) and you understand. You all feel the same.

Thanks for the chat :wink:


#14

Urgh Brook,

Really the state of ignorance in this country is quite disgusting. I recently saw my endocrinologist (I am prescribed viromone; I am hypogonadal). We had a student Dr sit on the consultation for experience. After our usual blood test results and review the endocrinologist asked to see how my gyno was going. I naturally have glandular tissue; fair to say that I am an hormonal nightmare LOL!

Anway, when the student ask the endocrinologist why did I have glandular breast tissue he could'nt really provide an appropriate answer and it was left for me to explain aromatisation etc etc etc.

I lost faith a long time ago, sadly.


#15

Dave, that is ridiculous! Even when they DO prescribe the drugs.. they still have so little idea about the effects they are nothing short of immoral in their prescribing.

You have a case there my friend - and it is likely i wouldn't sue either, it isn't in my nature... but it is sad - no, outrageous that the medical professions who are licensed to prescribe such drugs are not educated in their effects/contra-indications.


#16

Yes, it's very much like an algorithm. If the problem is x, then the prescription is y. But most don't have a clue how you get from x to y, and couldn't have put the algorithm together themselves in the first place.


#17

It really isn't just anabolic steroids.

In the US (I don't know about the UK) doctors typically take one semester of pharmacology in medical school. That is it.

Well, of course there is a great deal of seeing what other doctors do and imitating them and doing the same, as well as ordinarily having read the PDR and package inserts on drugs they commonly prescribe or are considering.

But generally speaking they have no deep knowledge of any drugs, regardless that pretty much the only things they do are:

A) Perform surgery (not relevant for most)
B) Diagnose and refer to another physician
C) Prescribe drugs

So one would hope that they had a deep understanding of the subject, but ordinarily they don't.


#18

I can personally vouch for this. I have only had one whirlwind course in pharmacology. But, you do learn a lot as you go on through your rotations but your learning experience is dictated by the quality of the residents and doctors that surround you.

Pharmacists learn much more about the drugs, 4 years worth I believe, yet they don't have as much of a platform to utilize their knowledge.

Sadly most of the later education doctors get about pharmaceuticals come from pharmaceutical companies themselves unless the doc keeps up with the current medical literature.

For some reason this is especially true in regards to learning about male hormone replacement or anabolic steroids (I received literally less than 3 minutes of lecture on that topic). I suppose only the rare aids or cancer doc would take a seminar in prescribing anabolic steroids for those patients. I am not familiar with exactly what training an endocrinologist receives in regards to male hormones and steroids but from what I gather it doesn't seem to be much.


#19

Its crap isnt it Brook? Its hard to have faith when faced with such ignorance. And to be fair, my gyno was not for him to discuss with another, you know! For some, it would be a personal issue that I imagine would be quite embarrassing and emasculating. To have an open discussion without the patient's approval is unprofessional.

I think Bill hit the nail on the head. My experience - and obviously this is not true for all - thus far has just shown me that 'most' doctors simply just know how to follow standard BNF prescription guidelines. The fact is, many simply do not possess that deeper, contextual understanding that the educated, informed user probably has.


#20

A medical student or resident doctor is privy to all of your information and files. Discussing your case with them is part of the process.

Discussing your case with someone outside of your 'health care team' is certainly unprofessional.

Poking fun at your naked body while under anesthesia is protocol in some operating rooms.