T Nation

Original Black Sabbath Lineup Album/Tour

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

I like both Ozzy and Dio…but I prefer Dio’s non-Sabbath work and I think Sabbath was better with Ozzy.

And Ozzy hasn’t done anything worthwhile in 30 years? There’s no merit in any of the records he put out with Rhodes or Wylde? I’m pretty sure one of the records he put out with Zack Wylde was the first real metal album I ever owned.[/quote]

Here’s my take on Ozzy.

He was part of a pioneering group that defined a branch of Heavy Metal.

He (and/or his wife and/or advisors) has a keen ability to pair him with amazing guitar players and song writers.

He helped ‘mainstream’ heavy metal (which honestly I’m not convinced was good for “heavy metal”)

Zakk Wylde is an amazing guitarist who brought the sound/tone to Ozzy at the exact time it was needed (honestly, I love Randy Rhodes, but I don’t think he’d have had songwriting longevity with Ozzy or would have left during the ‘guitar god shredder’ period of the mid-late 80’s to do his own thing).

Ozzy was relevant up to “No More Tears”. “Ozmosis” was decidedly a killing blow to innovation.

Zakk Wylde took his truly creative side to BLS.

Ozzy is no longer relevant as an artist, but quite relevant as an aggregator/talent-launcher. He’s relevant in the way 60’s muscle cars are relevant to the auto industry in the 2010’s.

This pretty much sums up Ozzy… by his own bandmates:

[i]HEAVEN & HELL/BLACK SABBATH bassist Geezer Butler has told Decibel magazine that working with singer Ronnie James Dio is a hell of a lot easier than working with Ozzy Osbourne. “Ronnie’s a songwriter in his own right. He’s got tons of ideas,” the bassist said. “Whereas Ozzy… in the old days, he’d come up with a vocal line and I’d write the lyrics. Ronnie is 100 percent involved in both the musical side and the vocal side, and he writes his own lyrics as well.”

Ozzy never took Butler’s musical ideas seriously, either. “If we were with Ozzy and I came in with the killer riff of all time, Ozzy wouldn’t even think of doing it because I’m not the guitarist and that’s the way he thinks,” Butler said. “When we tried to do a SABBATH album in 2001, we all gave each other CDs of our riffs or song ideas. Ozzy didn’t even listen to mine. Because I’m not a guitarist, he felt I shouldn’t be playing guitar. That’s why it was so bloody hard to write anything.”

Geezer Butler on HEAVEN & HELL’s debut CD, “The Devil You Know”: “If we’d written this album with Ozzy, we’d still be working on the first track.”

The contrast between Ozzy and Dio comes into even sharper focus on tour. “It was great being with Ozzy on the road,” HEAVEN & HELL/BLACK SABBATH guitarist Tony Iommi enthuses. “We had a great time and we still will have hopefully at some point, but with Ronnie it’s a lot different, because we go out and we know exactly what we’re gonna be doing. With Ozzy, we didn’t really know. It was touch and go sometimes on some of those early shows, whether he was gonna turn up, if he’d be able to sing, if his voice was gone, or what. We’d have to cancel shows, which Geezer and myself really hated. But with Ronnie, we’ve never cancelled a show. He’d have to be seriously, seriously ill before we cancelled a show.”[/i]

[quote]inkcreep wrote:
THere is no comparison between Ozzy and Dio in my opinion. While Dio was fucking bad ass, he and Ozzy are just completely different. As far as Sabbath goes, the original lineup can’t be fucked with. When Ozzy comes in on Paranoid, if you don’t get fucking chills and want to smash your fist through a wall then something is wrong. Or during that breakdown in N.I.B. and don’t even get me started on Children of the Grave! Maybe I’m just bias towards Ozzy cause he was the original, but his style was just so much more raw and intense the RJD I think. Sabbath is definitely one of the all time greatest bands ever,they started it all for metal.
[/quote]

x2

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:
rjd is scorpions, that was his band, not sabbath. [/quote]

LOL
[/quote]
Whut?

Klaus Meine is Deep Purple.

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

I like both Ozzy and Dio…but I prefer Dio’s non-Sabbath work and I think Sabbath was better with Ozzy.

And Ozzy hasn’t done anything worthwhile in 30 years? There’s no merit in any of the records he put out with Rhodes or Wylde? I’m pretty sure one of the records he put out with Zack Wylde was the first real metal album I ever owned.[/quote]

Here’s my take on Ozzy.

He was part of a pioneering group that defined a branch of Heavy Metal.

He (and/or his wife and/or advisors) has a keen ability to pair him with amazing guitar players and song writers.

He helped ‘mainstream’ heavy metal (which honestly I’m not convinced was good for “heavy metal”)

Zakk Wylde is an amazing guitarist who brought the sound/tone to Ozzy at the exact time it was needed (honestly, I love Randy Rhodes, but I don’t think he’d have had songwriting longevity with Ozzy or would have left during the ‘guitar god shredder’ period of the mid-late 80’s to do his own thing).

Ozzy was relevant up to “No More Tears”. “Ozmosis” was decidedly a killing blow to innovation.

Zakk Wylde took his truly creative side to BLS.

Ozzy is no longer relevant as an artist, but quite relevant as an aggregator/talent-launcher. He’s relevant in the way 60’s muscle cars are relevant to the auto industry in the 2010’s.[/quote]

x2 Good post.

Ozzy himself has admitted that NMT was the last “great” album he’s done and has been trying to duplicate it’s success ever since.

I think Sharon’s influence had a lot to do with the direction of the music as Ozzy got older, with him not being as mentally sharp as he was in the 80’s and early 90’s.

Sooooooooooo…the new Sabbath album is FUCKING AWESOME!

Buy it or steal it or something. Just listen to it somehow.

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
Sooooooooooo…the new Sabbath album is FUCKING AWESOME!

[/quote]

Great news. Any info. on the new RATT ?

Not sure if srs?

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
Not sure if srs?[/quote]

Sir, I’m always serious in discussions of RATT, or any other band that damn well uses 2 consonants when the average man only needs 1.

[quote]sen say wrote:

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
Not sure if srs?[/quote]

Sir, I’m always serious in discussions of RATT, or any other band that damn well uses 2 consonants when the average man only needs 1.[/quote]

LOL, I’m not aware of any upcoming album from them. I know they’re back together and writing or something, just not sure of a release date.

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
Sooooooooooo…the new Sabbath album is FUCKING AWESOME!

Buy it or steal it or something. Just listen to it somehow.[/quote]

I’m not feeling it dude. The music itself is alright, some good songs but it’s Ozzy’s plodding and predictable lyrics that are turning me off. You could play a game “guess the next line” and have a fifty percent success rate. Example: Dying is easy, living is hard…yawn. Maybe if it was just a tad more up tempo I would dig it more, I don’t know. Maybe it’ll grow on me.

I take zero pleasure in mildly trashing this album. I fucking love Sabbath or I wouldn’t have started this thread. I’m partway through Ozzy’s autobiography now.

[quote]bond james bond wrote:

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
I’m partway through Ozzy’s autobiography now. [/quote]

That was an awesome book. If you’re a Rolling Stones fan check out Keith Richards bio.

[quote]sen say wrote:

[quote]bond james bond wrote:

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
I’m partway through Ozzy’s autobiography now. [/quote]

That was an awesome book. If you’re a Rolling Stones fan check out Keith Richards bio.[/quote]

My wife read the Keith Richards bio you mentioned but found it difficult and all over the place so I’ve been putting it off. She found the Ron Wood bio much more enjoyable.

BTW, I saw Ratt play a show in 1984 in Kalamazoo Mich.

[quote]bond james bond wrote:

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
Sooooooooooo…the new Sabbath album is FUCKING AWESOME!

Buy it or steal it or something. Just listen to it somehow.[/quote]

I’m not feeling it dude. The music itself is alright, some good songs but it’s Ozzy’s plodding and predictable lyrics that are turning me off. You could play a game “guess the next line” and have a fifty percent success rate. Example: Dying is easy, living is hard…yawn. Maybe if it was just a tad more up tempo I would dig it more, I don’t know. Maybe it’ll grow on me.

I take zero pleasure in mildly trashing this album. I fucking love Sabbath or I wouldn’t have started this thread. I’m partway through Ozzy’s autobiography now. [/quote]

Dude, I feel like I don’t even know you anymore…

[quote]bond james bond wrote:
My wife read the Keith Richards bio you mentioned but found it difficult and all over the place so I’ve been putting it off. [/quote]

It was kinda rambly and dis-jointed…but so is Keef!

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:

[quote]bond james bond wrote:

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
Sooooooooooo…the new Sabbath album is FUCKING AWESOME!

Buy it or steal it or something. Just listen to it somehow.[/quote]

I’m not feeling it dude. The music itself is alright, some good songs but it’s Ozzy’s plodding and predictable lyrics that are turning me off. You could play a game “guess the next line” and have a fifty percent success rate. Example: Dying is easy, living is hard…yawn. Maybe if it was just a tad more up tempo I would dig it more, I don’t know. Maybe it’ll grow on me.

I take zero pleasure in mildly trashing this album. I fucking love Sabbath or I wouldn’t have started this thread. I’m partway through Ozzy’s autobiography now. [/quote]

Dude, I feel like I don’t even know you anymore…[/quote]

LOL! I was going to start off with “this will be the first time we’ve never seen see eye to eye on something” I felt bad. Like I said maybe it’ll grow on me. I need to listen to it in the car cranked to really know.

[quote]bond james bond wrote:

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:

[quote]bond james bond wrote:

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
Sooooooooooo…the new Sabbath album is FUCKING AWESOME!

Buy it or steal it or something. Just listen to it somehow.[/quote]

I’m not feeling it dude. The music itself is alright, some good songs but it’s Ozzy’s plodding and predictable lyrics that are turning me off. You could play a game “guess the next line” and have a fifty percent success rate. Example: Dying is easy, living is hard…yawn. Maybe if it was just a tad more up tempo I would dig it more, I don’t know. Maybe it’ll grow on me.

I take zero pleasure in mildly trashing this album. I fucking love Sabbath or I wouldn’t have started this thread. I’m partway through Ozzy’s autobiography now. [/quote]

Dude, I feel like I don’t even know you anymore…[/quote]

LOL! I was going to start off with “this will be the first time we’ve never seen see eye to eye on something” I felt bad. Like I said maybe it’ll grow on me. I need to listen to it in the car cranked to really know.
[/quote]

I agree that the lyrics are a little lame, but I love the tone of Ozzy’s voice (always have really, and he’s in full “evil satanic shaman” mode for this whole album, which is awesome) and the way it fits the music. Iommi’s riffs are incredible and Geezer just grooves like a madman.

It’s funny though, that bit you quoted was one of the parts that I heard and just shook my head at…like, c’mon guys, you can think of something better than that shit…