T Nation

Orals vs. Injectables?

Apart from side effects, what are the main differences between the two? From the reading I’ve been doing on this site and around others it seems gains are reportedly lost post cycle from both.Is the reason gains are lost the rapid drop in natural test post cycle? I’m on androgel HRT for life, does this mean that it would be easier for me to retain gains I’d make from an AAS cycle? I’m trying to put together some intelligent data so I can figure out my first cycle for mass.(45 yo, 5’6", 220lbs)
Thanks timhlbrk

I’m not trying to be an ass , but you need to read some bro. FYI Steroid Profiles, half lives, esters, those should point you in the right direction

Biscuite

WTF? If you are already 220 lbs at 5’ 6", why on earth do you want to go building more mass? Especially at age 45. Show some respect for your heart. Extra mass = extra work for your heart, regardless of whether it is fat or muscle. A cutting cycle would be a far better option. If you lose fat and retain muscle, you will look bigger and more muscular.

[quote]biscuite wrote:
I’m not trying to be an ass , but you need to read some bro. FYI Steroid Profiles, half lives, esters, those should point you in the right direction

Biscuite[/quote]

Alright, point taken, lol.
I’m aware of injection’s longer half life etc…I was more concerned with respect to retaining one’s gains post cycle.Though I will continue reading as you suggested, I was just hoping for a quick layman’s terms answer.I’m not much of a chemist (pipeline worker)but, thanks for the reply, timhlbrk

[quote]sharetrader wrote:
WTF? If you are already 220 lbs at 5’ 6", why on earth do you want to go building more mass? Especially at age 45. Show some respect for your heart. Extra mass = extra work for your heart, regardless of whether it is fat or muscle. A cutting cycle would be a far better option. If you lose fat and retain muscle, you will look bigger and more muscular.[/quote]

Sharetrader,
thanks for the reply,Doc says my ticker is as strong as an ox, lol.I wanted to add a few more pounds before I cut up as you suggested.I do appreciate the feedback though, thanks, timhlbrk

[quote]sharetrader wrote:
WTF? If you are already 220 lbs at 5’ 6", why on earth do you want to go building more mass? Especially at age 45. Show some respect for your heart. Extra mass = extra work for your heart, regardless of whether it is fat or muscle. A cutting cycle would be a far better option. If you lose fat and retain muscle, you will look bigger and more muscular.[/quote]

may be he wants to be bigger?
it is his life… his goals, his needs and targets… and it is his heart…

Show some respect for his life-style…

[quote]cadav wrote:

may be he wants to be bigger?
it is his life… his goals, his needs and targets… and it is his heart…

Show some respect for his life-style…[/quote]

Lol, OK.

[quote]timhlbrk wrote:
sharetrader wrote:
WTF? If you are already 220 lbs at 5’ 6", why on earth do you want to go building more mass? Especially at age 45. Show some respect for your heart. Extra mass = extra work for your heart, regardless of whether it is fat or muscle. A cutting cycle would be a far better option. If you lose fat and retain muscle, you will look bigger and more muscular.

Sharetrader,
thanks for the reply,Doc says my ticker is as strong as an ox, lol.I wanted to add a few more pounds before I cut up as you suggested.I do appreciate the feedback though, thanks, timhlbrk[/quote]

If you only want to add ‘a few more pounds’ then you do not need AAS, just food and iron

None of you guys will answer his question. The reason people don’t keep all their gains post cycle, regardless of orals or injectibles, is simple when you think of it this way- What took you 1000mg per week of hormone to “gain” simply cannot be sustained on the less than 50mg per week the average man produces naturally. Steroids are like jet engines that can soar you to unnatural altitudes. When you come off, the engines are gone and you begin your descent.

With good PCT you get your little propeller sputtering again on the front of the plane, but at best it just simply takes you from a nose dive to a slowly descending glide. This is why people keep doing cycles, over and over. What you are going to keep after you discontinue steroids permanently is going to be inversly proportional to how far away from 50mg per week you had to go to build it. If you gain 10 pounds on a 8 week cycle of 200mg test per week, you are going to “keep” more of it than the guy who needed 600mg to achieve the same thing. Remember, afterwards, you are both going back down to mere mortal levels of testosterone (about 50mg per week), androgel or not.

[quote]timhlbrk wrote:
I was more concerned with respect to retaining one’s gains post cycle.[/quote]

If that’s your number 1 concern then it isn’t so much whether it’s oral vs. injectible but which actual steroid to use. With certain orals a fair amount of strength/mass is lost upon discontinuation(A-drol,D-bol) while certain ones will yeild not quite as rapid gains but you’ll will retain much more LBM those listed above(anavar,stanazol).

Same holds true with injectibles. Worst part is usually the best drugs are ones with the most sides and the worst ability to retain gains post-cycle. With a good PCT plan however very little should be lost.

[quote]RoidEnthusiast wrote:
None of you guys will answer his question.Thank you The reason people don’t keep all their gains post cycle, regardless of orals or injectibles, is simple when you think of it this way- What took you 1000mg per week of hormone to “gain” simply cannot be sustained on the less than 50mg per week the average man produces naturally. Steroids are like jet engines that can soar you to unnatural altitudes. When you come off, the engines are gone and you begin your descent.
That’s what I needed!
With good PCT you get your little propeller sputtering again on the front of the plane, but at best it just simply takes you from a nose dive to a slowly descending glide. This is why people keep doing cycles, over and over. What you are going to keep after you discontinue steroids permanently is going to be inversly proportional to how far away from 50mg per week you had to go to build it. If you gain 10 pounds on a 8 week cycle of 200mg test per week, you are going to “keep” more of it than the guy who needed 600mg to achieve the same thing. Remember, afterwards, you are both going back down to mere mortal levels of testosterone (about 50mg per week), androgel or not. [/quote]

RE, Thank you for taking the time to see what the original question was! LOL. You answered my question in a way that even I can understand!So I guess sometimes less is more.I am looking to keep as much as possible and it would seem using the minimal amount of of the cleaner picks and hard work is MY answer.
Thank you again, timhlbrk

[quote]E-man wrote:
timhlbrk wrote:
I was more concerned with respect to retaining one’s gains post cycle.

If that’s your number 1 concern then it isn’t so much whether it’s oral vs. injectible but which actual steroid to use. With certain orals a fair amount of strength/mass is lost upon discontinuation(A-drol,D-bol) while certain ones will yeild not quite as rapid gains but you’ll will retain much more LBM those listed above(anavar,stanazol).

Same holds true with injectibles. Worst part is usually the best drugs are ones with the most sides and the worst ability to retain gains post-cycle. With a good PCT plan however very little should be lost.
[/quote]

Thanks for the reply,
I guess something like OT would be a good pick.I will continue to search profiles for my answers, thanks again. timhlbrk

Let us know if you run into anymore questions. I would rather ask a dumb question than make a dumb mistake.

bis

[quote]biscuite wrote:
Let us know if you run into anymore questions. I would rather ask a dumb question than make a dumb mistake.

bis [/quote]

My sentiments exactly, thanks for your time, timhlbrk

If you are on HRT, then why cycle off? The HRT dose will keep your testes shut down in anycase so they will not recover post cycle. If your testes are still LH/HCG responsive, then HCG can keep them ticking and needs to be taken every week.

Orals VS injectables: Orals are hard on the liver as so much must be used. So one cycles off of those to give the liver a break. From that point of view, testosterone esters are not hard on the liver like the orals. So perhaps for someone who is on HRT (for life), one does not need to cycle at all on injectables. I certainly do not know that ‘other’ injectables or high amounts are safe for the liver in continuous doses. I guess blood work can pick up signs of liver stress. So you do not need to cycle to save your nuts. I don’t know if there is any reason to cycle other than liver… but will be glad to see what others say.

[quote]RoidEnthusiast wrote:
None of you guys will answer his question. The reason people don’t keep all their gains post cycle, regardless of orals or injectibles, is simple when you think of it this way- What took you 1000mg per week of hormone to “gain” simply cannot be sustained on the less than 50mg per week the average man produces naturally. Steroids are like jet engines that can soar you to unnatural altitudes. When you come off, the engines are gone and you begin your descent.

With good PCT you get your little propeller sputtering again on the front of the plane, but at best it just simply takes you from a nose dive to a slowly descending glide. This is why people keep doing cycles, over and over. What you are going to keep after you discontinue steroids permanently is going to be inversly proportional to how far away from 50mg per week you had to go to build it. If you gain 10 pounds on a 8 week cycle of 200mg test per week, you are going to “keep” more of it than the guy who needed 600mg to achieve the same thing. Remember, afterwards, you are both going back down to mere mortal levels of testosterone (about 50mg per week), androgel or not. [/quote]

Good Point RE, what do your cycles look like? Dosages and duration?

[quote]KSman wrote:
If you are on HRT, then why cycle off? The HRT dose will keep your testes shut down in anycase so they will not recover post cycle. If your testes are still LH/HCG responsive, then HCG can keep them ticking and needs to be taken every week.

Orals VS injectables: Orals are hard on the liver as so much must be used. So one cycles off of those to give the liver a break. From that point of view, testosterone esters are not hard on the liver like the orals. So perhaps for someone who is on HRT (for life), one does not need to cycle at all on injectables. I certainly do not know that ‘other’ injectables or high amounts are safe for the liver in continuous doses. I guess blood work can pick up signs of liver stress. So you do not need to cycle to save your nuts. I don’t know if there is any reason to cycle other than liver… but will be glad to see what others say.[/quote]

I don’t intend to cycle off my HRT. I am planning an extracurricular cycle such as test and was concerned about pct.Since I will be on HRT both during and post cycle I was curious about keeping gains easier than others? I assume I will still need an anti-e during my cyle but I was curious about post. thanks, timhlbrk