T Nation

Oral Only Cycle

I have been using ology for quite some time but I like the forums a lot more here so I decided to make the switch, so Ill jump right into it. Yes I have read all of the stickies and a lot of threads on this subject and am fully aware that I should really pin some test with it, however due to personal reasons injecting in not an option. And no it is not because I am afraid of needles.

With that being said I am looking for some constructive advice on an oral only cycle. Oral only may not be the best option but its better than any OTC. Thanks in advance.

I am 31 years old, 5’11", 191 pounds, 8% bodyfat, been lifting for 10 years. Mainly looking to gain another 5-15 pounds of muscle.

Avanar 40 50 50 50 50 40
Tbol 40 50 50 50 50 40

PCT:

Clomid 50 50 50 50
Tamox 20 20 10 10 10 10

INB4: LOL, oral only is fu&^ing stupid, man up and pin, etc.

FYI: If you’re determined to go the oral only route, then I highly recommend that you do what a friend of mine recently did and use the 10-mg-a-day of Dianabol route. Just Google the key words entitled, “Using dianabol as a supplement”, and get the specifics.

Long story short, this guy was a life long natural bb, for almost 17 years, and even competed and placed in several local shows. His cycle was 10 weeks long (maybe a tad longer, I don’t remember the specifics on the exact cycle length), and he was on exactly 10 mg a day (in the morning), and visually it made a world of difference in his appearance. He credits his cycle with a 12 lb lean weight gain, though it looks substantially more that with vascularity and some very pronounced strength gains. It’s been two and half months since he finished this cycle, and his strength and weight increase (from what I’ve seen), from what I observed, haven’t gone away.

The best part though was his recent physical; he experienced no apparent HPTA shutdown (from his blood work), no elevated liver enzymes, no blood pressure increase and estrogen related side effects. Best of all, his lipids stayed the same.

Note: That last part really surprised me, and being a life long natural myself I have to say it sounds all too tempting. The cycle that you proposed (by comparison) may be more effective, but will almost certainly murder your HDL. Not even close to worth it IMO.

Anyway, just thought I would share that one with you. Best of luck and stay safe!

Oral only cycles arent ideal. Problem with oral only cycles is as soon as you stop, pretty much all gains you’ve made disappear.

[quote]MikeManos wrote:
FYI: If you’re determined to go the oral only route, then I highly recommend that you do what a friend of mine recently did and use the 10-mg-a-day of Dianabol route. Just Google the key words entitled, “Using dianabol as a supplement”, and get the specifics.

Long story short, this guy was a life long natural bb, for almost 17 years, and even competed and placed in several local shows. His cycle was 10 weeks long (maybe a tad longer, I don’t remember the specifics on the exact cycle length), and he was on exactly 10 mg a day (in the morning), and visually it made a world of difference in his appearance. He credits his cycle with a 12 lb lean weight gain, though it looks substantially more that with vascularity and some very pronounced strength gains. It’s been two and half months since he finished this cycle, and his strength and weight increase (from what I’ve seen), from what I observed, haven’t gone away.

The best part though was his recent physical; he experienced no apparent HPTA shutdown (from his blood work), no elevated liver enzymes, no blood pressure increase and estrogen related side effects. Best of all, his lipids stayed the same.

Note: That last part really surprised me, and being a life long natural myself I have to say it sounds all too tempting. The cycle that you proposed (by comparison) may be more effective, but will almost certainly murder your HDL. Not even close to worth it IMO.

Anyway, just thought I would share that one with you. Best of luck and stay safe![/quote]

That sounds very interesting. From what I’ve learned different people react very differently to dbol only cycles but this is the first time I have heard of anyone using it as a supplement.

I’m guessing it’s implied that there was no form of pct involved/no need for it. Any liver support supps?

To the OP, I am still an AAS virgin for now but from the vast amount of research I’ve done, the overwhelming verdict is if you’re going to do it, do it properly. And for good reason I believe

sounds interesting, however this will be my first cycle and I’ve read that your first cycle is always your best cycle so I’m wanting to get the most out of it without using a needle.

[quote]MikeManos wrote:
FYI: If you’re determined to go the oral only route, then I highly recommend that you do what a friend of mine recently did and use the 10-mg-a-day of Dianabol route. Just Google the key words entitled, “Using dianabol as a supplement”, and get the specifics.

Long story short, this guy was a life long natural bb, for almost 17 years, and even competed and placed in several local shows. His cycle was 10 weeks long (maybe a tad longer, I don’t remember the specifics on the exact cycle length), and he was on exactly 10 mg a day (in the morning), and visually it made a world of difference in his appearance. He credits his cycle with a 12 lb lean weight gain, though it looks substantially more that with vascularity and some very pronounced strength gains. It’s been two and half months since he finished this cycle, and his strength and weight increase (from what I’ve seen), from what I observed, haven’t gone away.

The best part though was his recent physical; he experienced no apparent HPTA shutdown (from his blood work), no elevated liver enzymes, no blood pressure increase and estrogen related side effects. Best of all, his lipids stayed the same.

Note: That last part really surprised me, and being a life long natural myself I have to say it sounds all too tempting. The cycle that you proposed (by comparison) may be more effective, but will almost certainly murder your HDL. Not even close to worth it IMO.

Anyway, just thought I would share that one with you. Best of luck and stay safe![/quote]

did he run any kind of AI with it?

Seems like a very interesting idea, although i would think that running Aromasin at 25mg/every second-third day with it would be a smart idea.

I like it. I’ve ran both Tbol and Anavar by themselves and had good results. Everybody responds differently to AAS so don’t listen to guys saying oral only is a waste of time. It wasn’t for me. Try it yourself and see what happens. You could try running the Tbol first and see how it goes. I found that Anavar gave much better results at the same dose.

I wouldn’t personally run an oral only cycle but I don’t think they’re as bad as people make out.

Depends on the oral though, I would only run tbol or var like ThorsWrath said, otherwise you’ll just be big and puffy and piss out all your gains in PCT

OK, well after reading the bullshit replies, ill post because I actually know what im talking about.

an oral only cycle will:

-Kill your lipid profile (but it will recover upon cessation of orals)

-Produce gains that are dependent on your diet and training, will last post pct as long as your diet and training are ON POINT

-Raise your liver enzymes (severity is individual, and they will recover upon cessation of orals)

Anavar and tbol are generally not very powerful steroids… so good fucking luck gaining that much “lean mass”… ill save you the heartbreak now and tell you that your goals are impossible with the doses/duration that you’ve suggested.

however, with multiple cycles, hopefully including injectables one day, your goals will certainly be attainble, assuming your diet and training are on point.

cheers

I put on 5 lbs with 6 weeks of Tbol 40 mg and 12 lbs with 6 weeks on Anavar 40 mg. I guess I respond better than most to AAS. When I graduated high school I was 6’ and 185 with visible abs and I never worked out. Once I joined a gym I hit 220 within 6 months and still had abs drug free. Now I am 40 work out twice a week and I am 250 about 10% BF. I didn’t do any roids until I was 38. None of the males in my family has ever been skinny or has trouble putting on muscle. My Dad and uncle are in their 60’s and still carry a lot of muscle even though they haven’t worked out in years. My point being everyone is different and you just have to try and see what works for you.

Hmm seems like a hardcore cycle…

[quote]ThorsWrath wrote:
I put on 5 lbs with 6 weeks of Tbol 40 mg and 12 lbs with 6 weeks on Anavar 40 mg. I guess I respond better than most to AAS. When I graduated high school I was 6’ and 185 with visible abs and I never worked out. Once I joined a gym I hit 220 within 6 months and still had abs drug free. Now I am 40 work out twice a week and I am 250 about 10% BF. I didn’t do any roids until I was 38. None of the males in my family has ever been skinny or has trouble putting on muscle. My Dad and uncle are in their 60’s and still carry a lot of muscle even though they haven’t worked out in years. My point being everyone is different and you just have to try and see what works for you.
[/quote]

post a pic bro

such trollage

Yep gonna need a pic to back that up

I guess what some folks don’t believe is that while not ideal (yes, test is certainly best for a first cycle) an oral only cycle (which I likewise would never do or advise) can be quite effective for a steroid virgin who has never cycled before. At one point I wondered how much so myself, but after seeing other people’s results first hand, seeing was truly believing.

But if I had to make a personal observation as to why, it’s largely because the people that I saw do so were natural for so long that they already had diet, training and lifestyle in full check. Add even a light dose of gear, that prevents catabolism, increases the nutrient partitioning effect, and allows one to retain a positive nitrogen balance is a fairly significant and positive variable change for growth in a natural trainee. You will see results from that alone.

And yes, there is the largely individual response to anabolics as well. Most top pros, who have the genetic gift card in their favor, would probably grow like weeds on a minimum dose of just oral(s).

[quote]MikeManos wrote:

And yes, there is the largely individual response to anabolics as well. Most top pros, who have the genetic gift card in their favor, would probably grow like weeds on a minimum dose of just oral(s).[/quote]

That one of the most ignorant and dumbest assumptions Ive heard.

[quote]tattoo’d’popeye wrote:

[quote]MikeManos wrote:

And yes, there is the largely individual response to anabolics as well. Most top pros, who have the genetic gift card in their favor, would probably grow like weeds on a minimum dose of just oral(s).[/quote]

That one of the most ignorant and dumbest assumptions Ive heard.[/quote]

Really, most ignorant huh? Then I guess you’re not very observant to those around you.

Read Flex Wheeler’s anabolic memoirs, in his own autobiography, and see how he responded to his first cycle of three 5 mg Dianabol tabs a day, on his first go around of PEDs. Then see if your previous perspective isn’t completely well refreshed.

But let me guess: All pros lie about what and how much they take, right?

[quote]MikeManos wrote:

[quote]tattoo’d’popeye wrote:

[quote]MikeManos wrote:

And yes, there is the largely individual response to anabolics as well. Most top pros, who have the genetic gift card in their favor, would probably grow like weeds on a minimum dose of just oral(s).[/quote]

That one of the most ignorant and dumbest assumptions Ive heard.[/quote]

Really, most ignorant huh? Then I guess you’re not very observant to those around you.

Read Flex Wheeler’s anabolic memoirs, in his own autobiography, and see how he responded to his first cycle of three 5 mg Dianabol tabs a day, on his first go around of PEDs. Then see if your previous perspective isn’t completely well refreshed.

But let me guess: All pros lie about what and how much they take, right?[/quote]

Exactly, his first cycle. And if orals are so good then why didnt he make it as a pro on orals only? I’ll wait while you google an excuse again…

Anyways you don’t understand what it means to be “genetically gifted”. When the term “genetically gifted” is used, its not in reference to the fact that “Pros” respond so well to gear. What makes them gifted is the fact that they are able to run tremendous amounts of gear a week for years with little sides affecting them. Yes re-read that last sentence. (Its a little more in depth than that but you get the picture right?)

And

Yes, I hate to break your little heart and forearms but pretty much ALL top level athletes lie!! They have to because our society still thinks AAS is cheating. Look from baseball to cycling, what happens 3-7 years after records get broke… oh so-in-so-was taking “performance enhancing drugs” Body builders are no different, they are top level athletes and image is everything. Were talking about the 1% of the 1%, thats made it through the injuries, nay sayers, blood sweat and tears for a couple decades. But yeah man, the orals got them there!

Im well refreshed, but some one needs to pull their head out of Muscle n Fiction magazine and get educated.

Perhaps you didn’t understand my previous statement, sailor man. So at the risk of being misquoted, allow me further clarify: I was specifically talking about Wheeler’s first cycle, which is why I made the statement about the minimal dose being so effective. Clearly, he and every other pro take a lot more than that to get to the top, that’s a given.

And I clearly understand that, just as the pros are gifted with the amounts of gear that they can take, for years on end, many are also “over responders” to smaller amounts of it. An average mere mortal most likely wouldn’t respond to a smaller dose nearly as well…you can’t likewise ignore that variable of the equation. (See, no Google required.)

And please kindly point out where I personally advocated in this thread that oral only cycles are so good and recommended? I can’t deny that many may get something from them, but I made no such remark, and in case that’s not clear enough I should also point out that I emphatically stated that the poster’s proposed oral cycle is not worth the lipid damage it would inflict (in my humble Muscle & Fiction opinion).

But alas, I’m not here to ridicule or get into another flaming forum exchange, as we are getting away from point of this thread. I just offered my observation as to what I’ve seen my bud use, and wished the poster well with whatever course he chose. That’s all you can do in the end anyway, and hope that whatever happens people first exercise caution and play it safe.

So with that said, merry Xmas to you and everyone else on this site. :slight_smile:

What i’ve seen in ten years toying with gear, is everyone is afected differently, I have broken all kinds of rules, I have run winny and deca by themselves in seperate cycles and had a hardon the whole time, with no test, or ai, and I have seen one guy blow up on a quarter of another’s dose. If it’s your first run ease in, see how you feel, you might gain 15lbs on one dbol a day, mabey it will take ten. Personaly my health is important, and I set out to find, what was the least I could grow on, this could take more than one cycle,but just like lifting, you know what works for you. Mr walkaway sounds informed, to many guys run around repeating what they have heard somwhere else, this creates false bro science. good luck with the gear