T Nation

Options for Losing Hair On Cycle


#1


Figured that since hair loss is something I have been dealing with for 10 years, since I was 22 I would share some of what I have learned on this subject.

If you're losing your hair, you'll want to try out "the big 3." Either one, or multiple compounds depending on the severity of your hair loss or what steroids you're using.

For those who don't know the "big 3" for hair loss are the following.

1.Finasteride (Propecia, Proscar). Blocks DHT systemically. Sadly, this cannot be used with deca-durabolin as the finasteride will convert it into dihydronandrolone which is even worse on your hair than DHT.

2.Minoxidil (Rogaine, SpectrumDNC, Lipogaine minoxidil). Hair growth stimulant, people aren't sure of it's exact mechanisms but it is clinically proven to work. Women's strength rogaine is only 2 percent minoxidil and men's strength is 5 percent. It's possible to find 15 percent concentrations if you order overseas and these are super-effective.

3.Ketoconazole shampoo (Nizoral, Regenepure, Lipogaine shampoo). Works by blocking some DHT at the topical level since ketoconazole is a relatively weak anti-androgen. Ketoconazole shampoos are the weakest of the big 3 but they have the fewest side effects.

A lot of people use Nizoral but I find Regenepure to be a much higher quality shampoo.
Whatever keto shampoo you're using make sure you leave it in the hair for 5 minutes, preferably 10 or even longer. Also, use it every day, or every other day. The twice a week suggestion is for dandruff, it's original intended purpose. It's a relatively weak anti-androgen so it won't be very effective if it's only used once or twice a week.

Now for the more HARDCORE "big 2" for those who are willing to risk the sides....

1.Dutasteride (Avodart). Basically this is super finasteride. It blocks both types of DHT while finasteride only blocks 1. This also cannot be used with Deca-Durabolin

2.RU58841. As you could've guessed by the name this isn't a commercially available product. It's an extremely powerful, topical anti-androgen that can only be purchased from chemical research websites. This is a fairly new compound that has never been tested so you're basically acting as a human guinea-pig using this. A lot of people though have reported no sides and lots of hair growth though.

Also, here are some compounds which for off-label use do have some scientific evidence behind them supporting their effectiveness for male pattern baldness but aren't widely known or discussed.

Things that might work...

  1. Spironolactone cream. Spironolactone is an ant-androgen which works by preventing androgens from reaching their receptors. It is often used by male to female transexuals in the process of their transition and there is also some evidence that it is effective for female pattern baldness though there are limited studies on it's effectiveness for male pattern baldness.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2684510/

  1. Azelaic Acid. Another topical anti-androgen which is actually an anti-acne medication. Clinical studies have shown that it can block up to 90 percent or more DHT at the scalp, both types. Some minoxidil products like Lipogaine mix azelaic acid with 5 percent minoxidil together and many have reported on their effectiveness.
  1. Saw palmetto. This may work as a very weak natural alternative to finasteride. It's been approved in Europe for the treatment of prostate cancer due to it's DHT inhibiting qualities. Thus it's possible it may be useful for treating male pattern baldness as well.

Now finally, the things that are bullshit.

  1. Laser combs. There is no actual evidence that laser light therapy works and most studies done were actually funded by the manufacturer's of the product. This falls strictly into the hippy, new age, alternative medicine snake oil.

  2. Nioxin. There is not a single ingredient in this shampoo that helps with hair loss, absolutely nothing yet the promote it as helping with such.

  3. Alpecin. Just another scam. Caffeine might have a mild stimulating effect on hair growth but it does nothing to actually stop the hair from falling out. Regenepure has caffeine too but it also has ketoconazole which is a clinically proven ingredient.

  4. Any kind of herbal product that presents itself as an all natural remedy (procerin, provillus, herbal shampoos). By fighting hair loss you're already fighting against nature so if you want to keep your hair you need to defy nature and that means using products which aren't natural.
    These companies would have you believe that hair loss is due to a health issue but there is absolutely no correlation. You can be the pinnacle of good health and still be bald, it's why doctors don't mention baldness when you go in for a routine check up.

TLDR version:

Minoxidil, ketoconazole, and finasteride work if you're trying to fight hair loss

Dutasteride and RU58841 are more powerful and should be tried if the above 3 alone fail.

Spironolactone and Azelaic Acid cream might help.

Laser combs, Nioxin, Alpecin, and herbal supplements are bunk.

Here is an image of my current hair loss stack...

My routine is as follows...

Jason's thin to thick shampoo every day. It's a regular thickening shampoo that I use after ketoconazole to help volumize my hair.

Regenepure DR. A great ketoconazole shampoo that I use almost every day. Has 1 percent ketoconazole and a bunch of soothing ingredients like aloe so it's easy on the scalp

Lipogaine The Big 3 shampoo. Another 1 percent ketoconazole shampoo I'm experimenting with. It's good, lathers a bit better than Regenepure DR but I don't like it as much, doesn't smell as good but it's still effective.

Generic Nizoral 2 percent. A very strong 2 percent ketoconazole shampoo. Fairly harsh on the scalp so I'll use this one just once or twice a week.

Generic 5 pecent Minoxidil. Very oily but effective, I use it once at night before going to bed.

Lipogaine Minoxidil. 5 percent minoxidil and 5 percent Azelaic acid. I can't say for sure if it's more effective than regular minoxidil but it is much higher quality. It dries faster and it doesn't leave your hair looking like crap.

Stinging Nettles. Apparently is supposed to work similarly to Saw Palmetto. I haven't noticed anything yet though.


#2

Ummm. You’re the guy who plans to shave his head because he’s losing too much hair. Why would anyone take your advice on hair preservation/restoration, when it obviously didn’t work for you?


#3

No, I don’t plan on shaving my head. I was asking if I could pull off the look if it came to it and the consensus was no, I can’t. So obviously I’m going to try to keep my hair.

I’ve managed to avoid having it all fall out for over 10 years now so I think my routine has been successul, especially since I do not use finasteride.


#4

Also people have been focusing just on my hairline. Yes it is receded but it has basically stayed the same for the past 8-9 years. I used to have a bald spot too but that is all gone.

In fact, behind my hairline my hair is actually very thick, see for yourself.


#5

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
Ummm. You’re the guy who plans to shave his head because he’s losing too much hair. Why would anyone take your advice on hair preservation/restoration, when it obviously didn’t work for you?[/quote]

OH SNAP


#6

seriously though man, the sooner you just accept your fate, the happier you’ll be


#7

So your suggestions should help with male pattern baldness, but not a receding hairline?


#8

A receding hairline for a lot of guys is the start of male pattern baldness. It starts off as a receded hairline, then you get a baldspot and then you lose it all.


#9

[quote]USAWchamp wrote:
A receding hairline for a lot of guys is the start of male pattern baldness. It starts off as a receded hairline, then you get a baldspot and then you lose it all.[/quote]

False. Receding hairlines generally start earlier in life, but the two work by different mechanisms. The genetic predisposition for male pattern baldness is linked to the X chromosome, whereas receding hairline is not.


#10

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]USAWchamp wrote:
A receding hairline for a lot of guys is the start of male pattern baldness. It starts off as a receded hairline, then you get a baldspot and then you lose it all.[/quote]

False. Receding hairlines generally start earlier in life, but the two work by different mechanisms. The genetic predisposition for male pattern baldness is linked to the X chromosome, whereas receding hairline is not.[/quote]

Ok fine, but the cause of loss is still due to follicle sensitivity to DHT, that is what is determined by genetics.


#11

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]USAWchamp wrote:
A receding hairline for a lot of guys is the start of male pattern baldness. It starts off as a receded hairline, then you get a baldspot and then you lose it all.[/quote]

False. Receding hairlines generally start earlier in life, but the two work by different mechanisms. The genetic predisposition for male pattern baldness is linked to the X chromosome, whereas receding hairline is not.[/quote]

No. Receding hairline and vertex balding are all part of male pattern baldness, and work via the same mechanism, as far as is currently known.


#12

Topical progesterone is another strong DHT inhibitor.


#13

[quote]seekonk wrote:
Topical progesterone is another strong DHT inhibitor. [/quote]

That’s interesting. I would worry about systemic absorption but I have never heard of anyone trying this.


#14

[quote]USAWchamp wrote:

[quote]seekonk wrote:
Topical progesterone is another strong DHT inhibitor. [/quote]

That’s interesting. I would worry about systemic absorption but I have never heard of anyone trying this.[/quote]

Here is a study that might be relevant, though the abstract does not state the concentration:

Ann Endocrinol (Paris). 1975 Mar-Apr;36(2):55-62.
[Progesterone administered by percutaneous route: an antiandrogen locally useful (author’s transl)].
[Article in French]
Mauvais-Jarvis P, Kuttenn F, Wright F.
Abstract

A skin specimen has been obtained from 5 volunteered men submited to a percutaneous administration of progesterone. Plasma progesterone, testosterone and dihydrotestosterone were evaluated before and after this treatment. Progesterone percutaneously administered does not change plasma testosterone and dihydrotestosterone and only slightly increases plasma progesterone. On the contrary, in the skin samples obtained from subjects percutaneously treated by progesterone, radioactive testosterone was not converted to dihydrotestosterone by skin homogenates. In conclusion, progesterone when percutaneously administered inhibits testosterone 5alpha-reduction and may be considered as an antiandrogen locally useful.


#15

[quote]rds63799 wrote:
seriously though man, the sooner you just accept your fate, the happier you’ll be[/quote]
Ah come on, man. It’s like saying we should accept bitch tits, raisin balls, and horrible post cycle crashes. What’s next, we should just all “age gracefully” and stop taking AAS and TRT? Or “settle for our genetics”? If there are ways to delay baldness, what’s with all these “just accept it” posts on a board like this one?

As for me, I only use Nioxin, which USAWchamp says is crap, and my hair has been the same for years so…


#16

[quote]SwD wrote:

[quote]rds63799 wrote:
seriously though man, the sooner you just accept your fate, the happier you’ll be[/quote]
Ah come on, man. It’s like saying we should accept bitch tits, raisin balls, and horrible post cycle crashes. What’s next, we should just all “age gracefully” and stop taking AAS and TRT? Or “settle for our genetics”? If there are ways to delay baldness, what’s with all these “just accept it” posts on a board like this one?

As for me, I only use Nioxin, which USAWchamp says is crap, and my hair has been the same for years so…[/quote]

it’s not the same at all. Cycle side effects are a totally different ball game to a genetic predisposition to baldness.


#17

[quote]USAWchamp wrote:
Figured that since hair loss is something I have been dealing with for 10 years, since I was 22 I would share some of what I have learned on this subject.

If you’re losing your hair, you’ll want to try out “the big 3.” Either one, or multiple compounds depending on the severity of your hair loss or what steroids you’re using.

For those who don’t know the “big 3” for hair loss are the following.

1.Finasteride (Propecia, Proscar). Blocks DHT systemically. Sadly, this cannot be used with deca-durabolin as the finasteride will convert it into dihydronandrolone which is even worse on your hair than DHT.

2.Minoxidil (Rogaine, SpectrumDNC, Lipogaine minoxidil). Hair growth stimulant, people aren’t sure of it’s exact mechanisms but it is clinically proven to work. Women’s strength rogaine is only 2 percent minoxidil and men’s strength is 5 percent. It’s possible to find 15 percent concentrations if you order overseas and these are super-effective.

3.Ketoconazole shampoo (Nizoral, Regenepure, Lipogaine shampoo). Works by blocking some DHT at the topical level since ketoconazole is a relatively weak anti-androgen. Ketoconazole shampoos are the weakest of the big 3 but they have the fewest side effects.

A lot of people use Nizoral but I find Regenepure to be a much higher quality shampoo.
Whatever keto shampoo you’re using make sure you leave it in the hair for 5 minutes, preferably 10 or even longer. Also, use it every day, or every other day. The twice a week suggestion is for dandruff, it’s original intended purpose. It’s a relatively weak anti-androgen so it won’t be very effective if it’s only used once or twice a week.

Now for the more HARDCORE “big 2” for those who are willing to risk the sides…

1.Dutasteride (Avodart). Basically this is super finasteride. It blocks both types of DHT while finasteride only blocks 1. This also cannot be used with Deca-Durabolin

2.RU58841. As you could’ve guessed by the name this isn’t a commercially available product. It’s an extremely powerful, topical anti-androgen that can only be purchased from chemical research websites. This is a fairly new compound that has never been tested so you’re basically acting as a human guinea-pig using this. A lot of people though have reported no sides and lots of hair growth though.

Also, here are some compounds which for off-label use do have some scientific evidence behind them supporting their effectiveness for male pattern baldness but aren’t widely known or discussed.

  1. Spironolactone cream. Spironolactone is an ant-androgen which works by preventing androgens from reaching their receptors. It is often used by male to female transexuals in the process of their transition and there is also some evidence that it is effective for female pattern baldness though there are limited studies on it’s effectiveness for male pattern baldness.
  1. Azelaic Acid. Another topical anti-androgen which is actually an anti-acne medication. Clinical studies have shown that it can block up to 90 percent or more DHT at the scalp, both types. Some minoxidil products like Lipogaine mix azelaic acid with 5 percent minoxidil together and many have reported on their effectiveness.
  1. Saw palmetto. This may work as a very weak natural alternative to finasteride. It’s been approved in Europe for the treatment of prostate cancer due to it’s DHT inhibiting qualities. Thus it’s possible it may be useful for treating male pattern baldness as well.

Now finally, the things that are bullshit.

  1. Laser combs. There is no actual evidence that laser light therapy works and most studies done were actually funded by the manufacturer’s of the product. This falls strictly into the hippy, new age, alternative medicine snake oil.

  2. Nioxin. There is not a single ingredient in this shampoo that helps with hair loss, absolutely nothing yet the promote it as helping with such.

  3. Alpecin. Just another scam. Caffeine might have a mild stimulating effect on hair growth but it does nothing to actually stop the hair from falling out. Regenepure has caffeine too but it also has ketoconazole which is a clinically proven ingredient.

  4. Any kind of herbal product that presents itself as an all natural remedy (procerin, provillus, herbal shampoos). By fighting hair loss you’re already fighting against nature so if you want to keep your hair you need to defy nature and that means using products which aren’t natural.
    These companies would have you believe that hair loss is due to a health issue but there is absolutely no correlation. You can be the pinnacle of good health and still be bald, it’s why doctors don’t mention baldness when you go in for a routine check up.

TLDR version:

Minoxidil, ketoconazole, and finasteride work if you’re trying to fight hair loss

Dutasteride and RU58841 are more powerful and should be tried if the above 3 alone fail.

Spironolactone and Azelaic Acid cream might help.

Laser combs, Nioxin, Alpecin, and herbal supplements are bunk.

Here is an image of my current hair loss stack…

My routine is as follows…

Jason’s thin to thick shampoo every day. It’s a regular thickening shampoo that I use after ketoconazole to help volumize my hair.

Regenepure DR. A great ketoconazole shampoo that I use almost every day. Has 1 percent ketoconazole and a bunch of soothing ingredients like aloe so it’s easy on the scalp

Lipogaine The Big 3 shampoo. Another 1 percent ketoconazole shampoo I’m experimenting with. It’s good, lathers a bit better than Regenepure DR but I don’t like it as much, doesn’t smell as good but it’s still effective.

Generic Nizoral 2 percent. A very strong 2 percent ketoconazole shampoo. Fairly harsh on the scalp so I’ll use this one just once or twice a week.

Generic 5 pecent Minoxidil. Very oily but effective, I use it once at night before going to bed.

Lipogaine Minoxidil. 5 percent minoxidil and 5 percent Azelaic acid. I can’t say for sure if it’s more effective than regular minoxidil but it is much higher quality. It dries faster and it doesn’t leave your hair looking like crap.

Stinging Nettles. Apparently is supposed to work similarly to Saw Palmetto. I haven’t noticed anything yet though.[/quote]

An entire post without the term “vag”

I see you’ve really matured in a week


#18

Well, you can also argue accelerated baldness is a side effect of AAS on those susceptible to it. Anyhow, in the same mindset I use AAS to have greater gains AND fight off the inevitable decline due to aging, I’ll fight baldness if I can too :slight_smile:


#19

[quote]SwD wrote:

[quote]rds63799 wrote:
seriously though man, the sooner you just accept your fate, the happier you’ll be[/quote]
Ah come on, man. It’s like saying we should accept bitch tits, raisin balls, and horrible post cycle crashes. What’s next, we should just all “age gracefully” and stop taking AAS and TRT? Or “settle for our genetics”? If there are ways to delay baldness, what’s with all these “just accept it” posts on a board like this one?

As for me, I only use Nioxin, which USAWchamp says is crap, and my hair has been the same for years so…[/quote]

I’m sure it’s a high quality shampoo but my issue with it is that it doesn’t have a single ingredient in it that has any clinical evidence of fighting male pattern baldness. The shampoo markets itself as a hair loss shampoo but how does it work?
With a shampoo like Regenepure or Nizoral you know it is effective because they have ketoconazole in it, an ingredient that is proven to fight hair loss since it is a topical anti-androgen.
How does Nioxin work though?


#20

[quote]rds63799 wrote:

[quote]SwD wrote:

[quote]rds63799 wrote:
seriously though man, the sooner you just accept your fate, the happier you’ll be[/quote]
Ah come on, man. It’s like saying we should accept bitch tits, raisin balls, and horrible post cycle crashes. What’s next, we should just all “age gracefully” and stop taking AAS and TRT? Or “settle for our genetics”? If there are ways to delay baldness, what’s with all these “just accept it” posts on a board like this one?

As for me, I only use Nioxin, which USAWchamp says is crap, and my hair has been the same for years so…[/quote]

it’s not the same at all. Cycle side effects are a totally different ball game to a genetic predisposition to baldness.
[/quote]

Just letting something happen because you have a genetic sensitivity to it is about the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. Some people have genetic predispositions to certain diseases, should they just let them happen too? Why bother with modern medicine practice at all? Just let shit happen.

Its ironic when the line is coming from steroid users, who of all people I would expect would understand and encourage working outside of what your genes have planned.