From what I saw in my limited time in the Canadian Forces, the toughest guys were about 5’8" and I guess about 150lbs.
What would be the optimal physical parameters for a soldier ?
How strong, how fast, and how much endurance would you prefer for such a soldier ?
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
What would be the optimal physical parameters for a soldier ?
How strong, how fast, and how much endurance would you prefer for such a soldier ?[/quote]
Able to carry a full combat load (weapon, helmet, web gear, water, ammunition and 45-pound ruck) a minimum of twenty miles over uneven terrain, at an average actual marching speed of fifteen minutes per mile, and still have the physical and mental ability to fight.
[quote]Silyak wrote:
You’re right that the ideal is probably lighter than 180lbs. But you also have to consider that many things don’t get smaller as the person gets smaller. Radio equipment, medical supplies, weapons, and ammunition don’t get any smaller. Building fortifications, breaking down doors (as was brought up), and other such tasks don’t get easier. Helmets and body armor get slightly lighter, but it’s probably not proportionate. Also, food demand probably doesn’t decrease proportionately with weight. So there starts to be a point of diminishing returns with smaller soldiers.
Just thinking about 130lb guys, I’d say most of them are either elite athletes or just skinny and weak. Now, that may just be a result of the American population, as you may be right that many gurkhas come in around that weight. [/quote]
You are right about the equipment not scaling, but I think that may be an advantage for the lighter guys. What got me thinking about this thread is watching some big guys move around with weight at the gym. I’m a small bastard (5’8, ~145), but put 50 lbs on my back and I can still do pull ups for days and move around fairly easily. I think I’d be a lot better at getting around obstacles with gear than someone who’s 220+, simply because they have to have to lug their own bodyweight around in addition to the gear.
I’m not saying my build is ideal (I’m aiming to compete in MT so I want to be as light as I can be). I also don’t think you can go too light (e.g. child soldiers), simply because you wouldn’t have the base minimum strength to move the gear around. So I think there would be a sweet spot, probably 150-170 lbs (imo).
Let’s just say the US armed forces years from now. No one wants to sign on anymore for whatever reason (low wages, everyone has become a hippie, I don’t know), so you’re left with a relatively small force. Let’s just say that that force is sufficient to pilot most of the vehicles, so you just need to recruit straight infantry rather than mechanics, drivers, cooks, etc. DARPA has invented a cloning process that will allow you to clone only one person. Every grunt (and by extension, all special forces personnel) will be based on that person. You have people of various builds available to clone, which build do you pick? They will need to be deployed all over the world with the same weapons/vehicles/logistics as current US servicemen/women.
[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
On what planet? 35 Iraqis were killed by troops using M3 fighting knives (or whatever the Brits call it) in combat by 20 British troops in Basra because the Brits had run low on ammo, so they went iron age on their asses.
The knife attack worked extremely well because the Brits could close in on the combatants who had zero skill hand-to-hand, so they slaughtered them, even though outnumbered 3-1.
A unit with fixed bayonets is damn effect at crowd control, too.
Also, a rifle may not weigh a lot, but your kevlar and multiple mags ads up very quickly.[/quote]
It happens, but it’s very rare. The only case I can think of at the top of my head where size and sheer brute strength has had an advantage was in the case of Australian SAS member Ben Roberts-Smith (http://www.news.com.au/national/he-emerged-victorious-from-a-hell-of-blood-and-fire/story-e6frfkvr-1225992077678). Even then, if it does come down to hand-to-hand combat, you will usually have a knife or other weapon around so the advantage of size will be reduced somewhat. Example of a Gurkha again (pic attached).
[quote]Iron Condor wrote:
DARPA has invented a cloning process that will allow you to clone only one person. Every grunt (and by extension, all special forces personnel) will be based on that person. You have people of various builds available to clone, which build do you pick? They will need to be deployed all over the world with the same weapons/vehicles/logistics as current US servicemen/women.
[/quote]
Luckily, we have an established precedent for the selection criteria for a clone army
Jango Fett (Temuera Morrison) was five-foot-seven, one hundred sixty-five pounds.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]Iron Condor wrote:
DARPA has invented a cloning process that will allow you to clone only one person. Every grunt (and by extension, all special forces personnel) will be based on that person. You have people of various builds available to clone, which build do you pick? They will need to be deployed all over the world with the same weapons/vehicles/logistics as current US servicemen/women.
[/quote]
Luckily, we have an established precedent for the selection criteria for a clone army
Jango Fett (Temuera Morrison) was five-foot-seven, one hundred sixty-five pounds.
[/quote]
Didn’t he get beheaded by a little dude?
I vote for whatever size Chuck Norris is. In fact, if Chuck Norris will allow himself to be cloned, I say we just clone him. The only down side to an army of Chuck Norrises would be that it might get bored and kick it’s own ass.
[quote]OldOgre wrote:
I vote for whatever size Chuck Norris is. In fact, if Chuck Norris will allow himself to be cloned, I say we just clone him. The only down side to an army of Chuck Norrises would be that it might get bored and kick it’s own ass.[/quote]
Five-eight, 175 pounds.
[quote]OldOgre wrote:
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]Iron Condor wrote:
DARPA has invented a cloning process that will allow you to clone only one person. Every grunt (and by extension, all special forces personnel) will be based on that person. You have people of various builds available to clone, which build do you pick? They will need to be deployed all over the world with the same weapons/vehicles/logistics as current US servicemen/women.
[/quote]
Luckily, we have an established precedent for the selection criteria for a clone army
Jango Fett (Temuera Morrison) was five-foot-seven, one hundred sixty-five pounds.
[/quote]
Didn’t he get beheaded by a little dude?
[/quote]
Yeah, and Alexander the Great (five-seven, one hundred fifty pounds) died of a fever. Your point? 
[quote]OldOgre wrote:
I vote for whatever size Chuck Norris is. In fact, if Chuck Norris will allow himself to be cloned, I say we just clone him. The only down side to an army of Chuck Norrises would be that it might get bored and kick it’s own ass.[/quote]
I knew this was going to be one of the responses when I made the thread
[quote]Chushin wrote
Why do I imagine that you really this thread? ;-)[/quote]
Probably because you are exactly right. I do really this thread. Really.
[quote]Iron Condor wrote:
[quote]OldOgre wrote:
I vote for whatever size Chuck Norris is. In fact, if Chuck Norris will allow himself to be cloned, I say we just clone him. The only down side to an army of Chuck Norrises would be that it might get bored and kick it’s own ass.[/quote]
I knew this was going to be one of the responses when I made the thread[/quote]
Yeah that’s silly. You only need ONE Chuck Norris.
Audie Murphy - 5’5, 110 lbs
Dan Daly - 5’6, 130 lbs
Roy Benavidez - 5’6, 130 lbs
Varq,
I had a teammate who served in the Gulf War (Desert Storm), who then went on to play briefly for the Dallas Cowboys. I figured he was the best person to ask since he had seen both sides of the coin, so I asked him about the training and how it compared to football.
He put it like this…“after a day of humping your gear in the massive heat, you would be willing to eat stir-fried shit out of the ass of a rhinosaurus.” Would you agree with that assessment ?
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Varq,
I had a teammate who served in the Gulf War (Desert Storm), who then went on to play briefly for the Dallas Cowboys. I figured he was the best person to ask since he had seen both sides of the coin, so I asked him about the training and how it compared to football.
He put it like this…“after a day of humping your gear in the massive heat, you would be willing to eat stir-fried shit out of the ass of a rhinosaurus.” Would you agree with that assessment ?[/quote]
I once went on a thirty-mile ruck march along a desert highway in 112-degree heat. It was a quick pace, nothing like 15 minutes per mile, but quick enough. I’d say we were on the road a good ten hours, not counting rest stops.
It was probably the stupidest hump I’ve ever been on. Even with two pairs of socks (one thin wool and the other silk), and broken-in boots with great insoles, my feet ended up like soggy hamburger. I was so thirsty that I forgot to be hungry: drank two 100-ounce water bladders and I still felt parched. Every joint ached, from my thoracic spine to the balls of my feet, and I had temporarily but completely lost my sense of humour.
Now that I think of it, maybe what your friend meant was that even if he had been offered stir-fried rhinoceros shit, it probably wouldn’t have tasted like anything because his taste buds were fried. I ate broiled fish and vegetables for dinner that night, but if you had blindfolded me and told me it was salted cardboard and pencil erasers, I would have believed it.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Varq,
I had a teammate who served in the Gulf War (Desert Storm), who then went on to play briefly for the Dallas Cowboys. I figured he was the best person to ask since he had seen both sides of the coin, so I asked him about the training and how it compared to football.
He put it like this…“after a day of humping your gear in the massive heat, you would be willing to eat stir-fried shit out of the ass of a rhinosaurus.” Would you agree with that assessment ?[/quote]
I always found I couldn’t eat much after a hot day in the field. Just drank water and picked at food.
I was never a combat arms guy, although I did end up in firefights more because the unconventional nature of the Arab/Israeli fighting, in that, to the extent there are “lines” you are in front or behind them multiple times a day.
We were a bunch of combat engineers with me being the tallest/biggest by far at 6’4" 215lbs. Pretty scrawny crew. Most in the 5’6" to 5’10"ish range.
The C4 we would plant on wrecked buildings that needed to be demolished* didn’t pay much attention to our height.
- A lot of Arab-occupied Jerusalem is a dump, and has been for a while. Condemned/deserted buildings would be used as staging areas for mortar/missile attacks, so they would get blown up, but there were perfectly good buildings next door, with innocent(ish) people inside, which we didn’t want to hurt. So we did daily implosions while under small arms fire/rock throwing/feces throwing. Then we’d take a D9 tractor to it, plant trees, sod it, and put up play grounds. Seriously. Sometimes I think owners would let terrorists use their crappy buildings so we could do urban renovation.