T Nation

Optimal Percentage for Power Production?


#1

It's been known that when it comes to the olympic lifts, peak power is produced with moderate loads and low repetitions compared to max lifting... However, is it more optimal to train with moderate loads (when it comes to the oly lifts) with low reps than with max loads and low reps as far as IMPROVING SPECIFIC POWER FOR THE COMPETITION LIFTS??

Thank you...


#2

Dude, can you even do a fucking clean with good form yet?


#3

The Optimal Percentage for Power Production, specific to Olympic weightlifting, is this…

wait for it…

getting a coach%


#4

So his question about adding 20 rep squats to an Oly lifting routine wasn’t stupid, but this one is?

I’m terribly confused.


#5

I think they’re just fed up with anything Type2B has to post.


#6

[quote]tom8658 wrote:
So his question about adding 20 rep squats to an Oly lifting routine wasn’t stupid, but this one is?

I’m terribly confused.[/quote]

The 20 rep question had a reasonable thought process behind it (more squats + bigger squats = better oly lifting).

This question is stupid because the OP doesn’t even know how to do the fucking lifts correctly and he’s asking an asinine question about power output at different percentages.

See the difference? Maybe I was just in a better mood the other day tho… :smiley:


#7

…Hmmm, I realized that there really is no such thing as “specific power.” Power = Power = force(velocity)

It was stupid of me to assume that training with max loads with the olympic lifts will develop a “different” end product compared to using moderate loads for peak power production…

Here’s a better question, and please help:

WHEN IT COMES TO TRAINING AN OLYMPIC WEIGHTLIFTER, WHICH ONE IS MORE OPTIMAL? LIFTING MAX LOADS WITH THE CLASSICAL LIFTS TO ENFORCE CERTAIN MOTOR PATTERNS, OR LIFTING MODERATE LOADS WITH SEVERAL REPETITIONS TO DEVELOP THE BODY’S ABILITY TO PRODUCE “PEAK POWER”?

In simpler terms? WHICH ONE IS BETTER?

…And yes, I do think I know how to clean… Kinda… Maybe… No… I suck at it.


#8

[quote]Hanley wrote:
tom8658 wrote:
So his question about adding 20 rep squats to an Oly lifting routine wasn’t stupid, but this one is?

I’m terribly confused.

The 20 rep question had a reasonable thought process behind it (more squats + bigger squats = better oly lifting).

This question is stupid because the OP doesn’t even know how to do the fucking lifts correctly and he’s asking an asinine question about power output at different percentages.

See the difference? Maybe I was just in a better mood the other day tho… :D[/quote]

I hear alot of aspiring powerlifters who are asking about circa max phase and whatnot and they don’t even know how to bench press. There’s nothing wrong with asking questions… In fact, Louie Simmons wrote an article that has the title “get stronger by asking questions” or something like that.


#9

I see your logic, I just don’t necessarily agree. This kind of question could just be idle curiosity, kind of like how I enjoy the articles on EFS even though I’m weak as shit.

But asking if it would be OK to add 20-rep squats to the end of his Oly workout just displays an incredible lack of common sense. Most of the 20 rep squat programs have you doing a max of 3 sets a week with no other leg work - of course trying to put them in an Oly program is a bad idea.

Or, like you said, maybe I was just in a bad mood that day.

Regarding the original question: Isn’t this what Prilpin’s (sp?) chart is for?


#10

Here’s a good video Re: this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cilLKufYOhE&feature=fvst

-chris


#11

But is measurment of power output using external kinematic analysis representive of power output characteristics of the muscle fibres during said movement?

Or more importantly who really cares! lol


#12

[quote]Hanley wrote:

This question is stupid because…[/quote]

There’s no such thing as a stupid question, just stupid people who ask too many questions.

That being said, Type2B, these quotes from Zatsiorsky’s Science and Practice of Strength Training may be of some use to you:

“…it seems that for athletes with more than 1 year of training experience the intensity of 80% of 1RM is close to optimal… Untrained individuals experienced maximal gains by training with an intensity of 60% of 1RM.” (p80).

When the USSR Olympic team was training for the '88 games, “the highest proportion of weights lifted (35%) consisted of those 70 to 80% of the CFmm [maximum competition weight]” (77).

I suppose weightlifting has probably progressed a bit in the last 20 years or so, so you may want to take that with a grain of salt. I really can’t comment (at least not from personal experience), since my own experience with the olympic lifts isn’t exactly what you might call extensive.

I’m pretty sure that all of these fancy numbers and figures are pretty irrelevant until you’ve got your technique down pat. So go out and practice your lifts and don’t come back until you can clean & jerk 1.5xBW.


#13

[quote]ctschneider wrote:
Hanley wrote:

This question is stupid because…

There’s no such thing as a stupid question, just stupid people who ask too many questions.

That being said, Type2B, these quotes from Zatsiorsky’s Science and Practice of Strength Training may be of some use to you:

“…it seems that for athletes with more than 1 year of training experience the intensity of 80% of 1RM is close to optimal… Untrained individuals experienced maximal gains by training with an intensity of 60% of 1RM.” (p80).

When the USSR Olympic team was training for the '88 games, “the highest proportion of weights lifted (35%) consisted of those 70 to 80% of the CFmm [maximum competition weight]” (77).

I suppose weightlifting has probably progressed a bit in the last 20 years or so, so you may want to take that with a grain of salt. I really can’t comment (at least not from personal experience), since my own experience with the olympic lifts isn’t exactly what you might call extensive.

I’m pretty sure that all of these fancy numbers and figures are pretty irrelevant until you’ve got your technique down pat. So go out and practice your lifts and don’t come back until you can clean & jerk 1.5xBW.[/quote]

…Here’s my plan…

I pick something easIER to execute, such as hang variations (either above the knee or below the knee) or power variations of the lifts, with varying stances, (either shoulder width or slightly wider) and how much I duck under when doing the hang lifts… I treat those lifts as if THEY ARE THE COMPETITION LIFTS and keep building power from those, and once I can get a coach, I train with a coach. As of right now, I can’t…

…Since I will be using the oly lift variations MAINLY TO BUILD POWER and nothing else, I would use the Prilepin table, in which I am already using with my other lifts…

Loads will be moderate, (70-80% of 1RM) with an optimal total repetitions of 18, either 3x6 or 6x3, WITHOUT going under 12 total reps and nothing more than 24 total reps… Just like how the Prilepin table says so…

Here’s a new question!!

WOULD THERE BE ANY NEGATIVE EFFECTS FROM DOING HANG VARIATIONS AND/OR POWER VARIATIONS TO THE CLASSICAL LIFTS SUCH AS DEVELOPING THE WRONG MOTOR PATTERNS EVEN THOUGH YOU ONLY USE MODERATE LOADS?

It seems that alot of people avoid certain exercises, such as deadlifts, due to the fear of disrupting the learning process of the clean/snatch.


#14

I just posted something and it won’t show!


#15

[quote]IainK wrote:
But is measurement of power output using external kinematic analysis representive of power output characteristics of the muscle fibres during said movement?

Or more importantly who really cares! lol[/quote]

…I’d say yes. Bodybuilders who are not fast twitch dominant and are neurally pathetic cannot lift as much as an elite weightlifter. That right there, regardless of whether it is an “external kinematic analysis” or the “power output characteristics of the muscle fibers” can be a very accurate measurement of the body’s ability to produce max force.


#16

[quote]TYPE2B wrote:
I just posted something and it won’t show![/quote]

They must finally have got that idiot filter working so. Well done mods!


#17

[quote]Hanley wrote:
TYPE2B wrote:
I just posted something and it won’t show!

They must finally have got that idiot filter working so. Well done mods![/quote]

They always find a way through those filters…

See… Even I did.


#18

Someone needs to remove TYPE2B’s “Caps Lock” button.


#19

[quote]VikingsAD28 wrote:
Someone needs to remove TYPE2B’s “Caps Lock” button.[/quote]

seven sixteenths of one inch: the distance you have to move your pinky to not sound like an idiot.


#20

This is such an easy question to answer:

You are not experienced enough to even consider training with max weights.

Let me explain:
1.) Your form is not good enough at even moderate weights, and it certainly won’t hold at higher weights.

2.) You do not have the training volume behind you to consistently lift heavy day in and day out.

Actually, those two reasons there are more than enough. Dude… stop being retarded. Seriously. Stop it. Find a coach. Until then, you need to keep the weight light… even if you ever do get a coach, he’ll keep you light for a long time too! Hell, I’ve been lifting competitively for years and I -still- have cycles of light lifting to work on technique/recovery/whatever.

You don’t need to train your maximal power output. You need to learn how to lift.