T Nation

Optimal Diet for Testosterone?

Hi all,

If you Google “Testosterone and diet” you will come up with tons of information on how a high carb (50-60%) diet promotes high T levels, and how conversely a low carb diet will cause them to sink.

However, it is also known that Insulin severely suppresses Testosterone. Surely (especially in an IR individual) someone with that high amount of carbs is going to be spiking his insulin throughout the day? If so how is this percentage optimal for T levels.

I wonder what the T forums think personally about the optimaly testosterone diet, so to speak. I know that high fats (especially mono and saturated) encourages T production. I have also read that the paleo diet (low carb) has actually boosted the T production (e.g sex drive) of many of its followers, which is in STARK CONTRAST to all of the publicized studies.

Any thoughts, anecdotes, etc?

Insulin suppresses testosterone?

Source?

Would you like the truth or more bullshit?

The truth is little is known, especially in men, about the direct relationship of insulin and testosterone.

[quote]Little is known about the interaction between testosterone levels and insulin sensitivity in men, in contrast to the abundant literature on this relationship in women (6). Cross-sectional studies demonstrate an inverse relationship between testosterone and fasting insulin levels in men independent of age, obesity, and body fat distribution (7?11). A link between testosterone deficiency and diabetes has also been suggested with the demonstration that men with type 2 diabetes have lower testosterone levels than weight-matched nondiabetic control subjects (12,13).

In addition, six large prospective studies have shown that low testosterone levels predict development of type 2 diabetes in men (14?19). Two studies demonstrate a positive relationship between total testosterone levels and insulin sensitivity in normal (20) and diabetic men (21). In contrast, data on the relationship between free testosterone levels and insulin sensitivity are conflicting, with two studies showing no correlation (21,22), whereas a third study demonstrates a weak positive relationship (20).[/quote]

Also:

[quote]There are no studies in vivo on the effects of insulin on androgens and sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) in men. We, therefore, investigated the effects of insulin suppression on testosterone and SHBG in two groups of eight nondiabetic adult obese men and six healthy normal weight men who underwent diazoxide treatment (100 mg, three times daily) for 7 days. Blood samples for hormone determination were obtained before the subjects had been selected for the study, immediately before diazoxide administration, and on the last day of treatment.

A 24-h oral glucose tolerance test was also performed for glucose, insulin, and C-peptide determinations before and on the last day of treatment. Only one subject experienced significant side-effects, and no significant changes in mean body weight were found during the treatment. Diazoxide administration worsened glucose tolerance in several subjects and reduced fasting and glucose-stimulated insulin levels by approximately 50% in both control and obese subjects. No significant difference was present between historical and pretreatment hormone values in either group.

Moreover, there were no differences in pretreatment gonadotropin and SHBG concentrations between the two groups, whereas testosterone (free and total) levels were lower in the obese than in the control subjects. After diazoxide administration, testosterone (free and total) decreased slightly, but significantly, whereas LH and SHBG significantly increased in both groups. Diazoxide treatment increased estradiol levels in controls, but not in obese men. In conclusion, these results indicate that in vivo, insulin is capable of stimulating testosterone production and, simultaneously, of inhibiting SHBG concentrations in both normal weight and obese men.[/quote]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Insulin suppresses testosterone?

Source?

Would you like the truth or more bullshit?

The truth is little is known, especially in men, about the direct relationship of insulin and testosterone.

Also:

T Nation’s own article seem to make the implication: http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_article/sex_news_sports_funny_grok/the_taming_of_insulin

I am by no means an expert, but there seems to be just as many studies proclaiming the relationship as there are discounting it. E.G one of the first websites that poppoed when Googled.

http://www.medkb.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/diabetes-forum/26249/High-insulin-levels-lower-testosterone-by-up-to-25

Two hours after glucose administration, the testosterone level remained
much lower than before the test in 73 of the 74 men, a statistically
significant difference, the authors reported. Of the 66 men who had
normal testosterone levels before the test, 10 (15 percent) became
hypogonadal at one or more time points during the test.

The results did not differ by changes in insulin levels, according to
the abstract. Other hormones that could change testosterone measurements
also did not appear to affect results. Hayes said more research is
needed to find the factor or factors responsible for this drop in
testosterone.

Because glucose intake, and likely food, decreases testosterone, she
said, “This research supports the notion that men found to have low
testosterone levels should be reevaluated in the fasting state.”

Who cares?

Nothing you eat will have an impact on t levels to the point that you’ll notice ANYTHING, body comp wise or well-being wise.

If you want to raise your testosterone levels use DAA or drugs.

Tim Ferriss jacked his test he claims 300%, by lots of eggs, brazil nuts, steaks, and keeping his phone off his crotch. He suggests cholesterol is a key in test production

^Isn’t testosterone derived from cholesterol?

I always thought eating a lot of wholesome food and drinking a lot of water is your best bet for putting your body in a good hormonal balance. Naturally

[quote]K-Man32 wrote:
^Isn’t testosterone derived from cholesterol?

[/quote]

Yes - it’s a precursor for steroid hormones like test…

[quote]SkyNett wrote:

[quote]K-Man32 wrote:
^Isn’t testosterone derived from cholesterol?

[/quote]

Yes - it’s a precursor for steroid hormones like test… [/quote]
Good to know.

So just like dietary cholesterol doesn’t clog arteries, increasing dietary cholesterol would not raise testosterone?

Just food for thought here, I’m not an over analyzer.

[quote]Simpledude wrote:
“This research supports the notion that men found to have low
testosterone levels should be reevaluated in the fasting state.”
[/quote]

That quote is the only conclusion from that paragraph.

One can only assume that people on this site are worried about it in the context of building muscle or from a general health perspective.

If for building muscle, maybe people would be better off just lifting heavy-assed weights and eating more steak instead of worrying about what foods affect “T”.

If for general health, maybe people should see a doc about blood work and TRT.

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

One can only assume that people on this site are worried about it in the context of building muscle or from a general health perspective.

If for building muscle, maybe people would be better off just lifting heavy-assed weights and eating more steak instead of worrying about what foods affect “T”.

If for general health, maybe people should see a doc about blood work and TRT.[/quote]

They seem to be trying to make up their own rules.

If “insulin suppresses testosterone” is what they get out of that statement that was quoted, they need to stop assuming they actually understand all of the scientific data they are looking at.

The term “lay person” wasn’t created for no reason.

Now, I’m not a doctor (but I do stay at Holiday Inn Expresses once in awhile), but from my perspective, if I was even worried about insulin/testosterone relationships to diet, then I would focus on controlling insulin.

Why?

Because there are LOTS of studies/info on how insulin is affected by diet and it’s directly affected and easily measurable.

Testosterone? If you have low T, like chronic clinically low T, then diet might be an avenue to correct it, but certainly not without the help of someone who specializes in it. Seems like a nice conversation to ponder while smoking whisky, but from a practical standpoint seems pointless to worry about.

There are so many other variables to consider than just I:T in a vacuum. The human body just isn’t that simple.

Eating lots of Eggs/Steak/Chicken/Potatoes >>>>>>> Hypothetical Insulin:Testosterone ratio (In my non-medical opionion).

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

One can only assume that people on this site are worried about it in the context of building muscle or from a general health perspective.

If for building muscle, maybe people would be better off just lifting heavy-assed weights and eating more steak instead of worrying about what foods affect “T”.

If for general health, maybe people should see a doc about blood work and TRT.[/quote]

They seem to be trying to make up their own rules.

If “insulin suppresses testosterone” is what they get out of that statement that was quoted, they need to stop assuming they actually understand all of the scientific data they are looking at.

The term “lay person” wasn’t created for no reason.[/quote]

Speaking of lots of eggs, steak, and potatoes…I just hit the 200lb club and X’s delt tie-ins are the size of my whole delt + tie-in. Lol, looking thick man.

[quote]K-Man32 wrote:
Speaking of lots of eggs, steak, and potatoes…I just hit the 200lb club and X’s delt tie-ins are the size of my whole delt + tie-in. Lol, looking thick man.[/quote]

LOL. My assistant just walked by wondering what I’m smiling at.

Thanks man. I am shooting for something more though.

Well I know I have read multiple times that high fat diets, at least 30% fat, raise test. With saturated and monounsaturated being the ones to raise your test.

^ Yeah but the cortisol you release by worrying about shit like this will hinder any gains all that extra T could give you.

Srsly, who cares. I’m THOROUGHLY convinced that all this bro-knowledge does little more than screw up the newbs (I was like this for many-a-moons). All these ‘articles’ distract new-jacks from doing what they need to do:

  • Hit the weights fucking HARD
  • Eat enough food to grow
  • Shut up and listen

If SteelyD, Prof X, K-Man, Bonez, etc are all saying to shut up and eat, maybe they’re on to something.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]K-Man32 wrote:
Speaking of lots of eggs, steak, and potatoes…I just hit the 200lb club and X’s delt tie-ins are the size of my whole delt + tie-in. Lol, looking thick man.[/quote]

LOL. My assistant just walked by wondering what I’m smiling at.

Thanks man. I am shooting for something more though.[/quote]

i never thought i would meet some one whose upper chest looked TOO big

(thats a compliment)

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]K-Man32 wrote:
Speaking of lots of eggs, steak, and potatoes…I just hit the 200lb club and X’s delt tie-ins are the size of my whole delt + tie-in. Lol, looking thick man.[/quote]

LOL. My assistant just walked by wondering what I’m smiling at.

Thanks man. I am shooting for something more though.[/quote]

not to turn this into a profx worship thread, but your waist has really tightened up a ton too. makes your shoulders look even wider.

I appreciate that, guys. For real.