Opinions on Shrugs?

[quote]Sagat wrote:
Professor X wrote:
GDollars37 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
forlife wrote:
What is your take on shrugs as part of a regular workout routine? I rarely seem them included in the programs I’ve seen here and elsewhere. Is it better just to stick with complex lifts or to do other kinds of shoulder isolation exercises?

I think you should look at the pictures of people recommending certain routines. I only do shrugs for traps. They work. There should be no debate about that.

There is no way that I would tell someone to rely on any other exercise if their goal was to build that muscle group up to the best of their genetic ability.

What kind of ROM do you do though? This may sound like a nitpicking “TUT” kind of question, but I think it makes a big difference. I used to try to shrug all the way up, til my shoulders are almost touching my ear lobes, but most legitimately big guys I see doing them pile on a ton of weight, use straps, and only move the bar a couple inches.

I think you may be missing a very fundamental concept. When you have really big traps, you CAN’T touch your fucking ears. I go up as far as my traps will allow, which to some newbie may not seem like as much movement. That doesn’t mean it isn’t VERY effective, especially with the weights I am using.

The significance of full range of motion has been blown drastically out of proportion, especially when it concerns someone who is already big.

Ronnie Coleman would not be able to touch his ears with his shoulders no matter how hard he tried.

X, how much weight you are talking about?

I ask because people often use the example of “if you are already hitting your traps with 550 rack pulls, shrugs with 225 will do nothing…”, but i think someone who pulls that kind of weights, will use way more than 225 on shrugs.

I never did much shrugs, but recently i was considering doing 1 or 2 sets of high reps after deadlifts to see what happens.
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I don’t do rack pulls. In the past I went as heavy as 540lbs on shrugs. I currently go up to 450lbs usually. I think you can look at my traps and tell it works.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
howie424 wrote:
What variation of shrugs have some of you found best? Does it just depend on the person?

I used barbells until they made the hammer strength shrug machine.

[/quote]

I’m not much for machines, but that one is excellent.

[quote]josh86 wrote:
I like heavy barbell shrugs done “power shrug” style…this is basically using a bit of leg drive to allow for much heavier loads and you try to hold at the top of the movement (even though you can’t - the point is to TRY to hold it at the top).[/quote]

How does this compare to deadlifts? I find that DL work well for traps, but shrugs in addition to DL is the best approach IMO.

Back at home we have a Rickshaw Shrug Thing a lot like the one in this picture.

I have to say I like this and the Hammer Shrug Machine the best. They’re both the exact same thing except I think it’s easier to get a grip on the Rickshaw’s metal handles as opposed to the Hammer Handles with the neophrine-ish sleeves.

It’s nice to do Shrugs with Dumbbells, a Hammer Machine, Rickshaw, or Trap Bar because it just feels to me like there’s not as much stress on your lower back. Even if you don’t have lower back pain, why fatigue it when you need it for Squats and Deads?

I’ve found that I get a better workout if I do Shrugs without straps. Since I’m limited by the weight I can hold I’m forced to use a lighter weight. With the lighter weight I end up doing higher reps with stricter form. I end up getting a better pump and I’m more sore than I would have been with straps and heavier weight.

I’m also fond of Snatch-Grip Shrugs.

But I’m not sold on the idea that Shrugs will help you that much with your athletic endeavors. And I think Overhead Shrugs are retarded - why would you ever relax your shoulders with a big-ass barbell above your head in a completed Snatch Position? You gotta keep shit tight up there.

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
josh86 wrote:
I like heavy barbell shrugs done “power shrug” style…this is basically using a bit of leg drive to allow for much heavier loads and you try to hold at the top of the movement (even though you can’t - the point is to TRY to hold it at the top).

How does this compare to deadlifts? I find that DL work well for traps, but shrugs in addition to DL is the best approach IMO.[/quote]

Umm as far as feeling it in my traps and them being sore the next day nothing has been better than power shrugs for me.

edit: I should clarify that my gym does not have a Hammer Strength Shrug machine so I have no idea if that would be even better.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

I don’t do rack pulls. In the past I went as heavy as 540lbs on shrugs. I currently go up to 450lbs usually. I think you can look at my traps and tell it works.[/quote]

I remember you saying you dont do deads in another thread. These weights are around what i thought, acording that teory it would take someone who deadlifts 900-1000lbs for reps to use the weights you use on shrugs. Dont get me wrong i think deads and rack pulls are great.

I never cared about doing shrugs because it seems my traps are in proportion just from deads, but recently i felt like i want more that “power look” and it will help when taking punches in my head :slight_smile: so probably i’ll add 1 or 2 sets after deads…

[quote]Sagat wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I remember you saying you dont do deads in another thread. These weights are around what i thought, acording that teory it would take someone who deadlifts 900-1000lbs for reps to use the weights you use on shrugs.[/quote]

It sounds like your saying Andy Bolton does shrugs with 450lbs?

Anyone know which different muscles are worked with behind-the-back barbell shrugs as opposed to conventional barbell shrugs?

[quote]forlife wrote:
What is your take on shrugs as part of a regular workout routine? I rarely see them included in the programs I’ve seen here and elsewhere. Is it better just to stick with complex lifts or to do other kinds of shoulder isolation exercises?[/quote]

It depends. Have big traps already? Maybe you don’t need them. Or are they overpowering your shoulders? Maybe you don’t need them. Or are they growing just fine from deadlifting and other exercises? Don’t need them. But if you answered “No” to any of those questions, you do. Which is most bodybuilders, probably.

MODOK and Fighting Scott,
i was actually disagreeing with that teory. I still think the deadlifts and rack pulls are the best upper back exercises, but i dont think you can load them that much heavier than shrugs, just that… as i mentioned i will start including some shrugs, so i will see how the load in it compares to the loads i use in the deadlift.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

I think you may be missing a very fundamental concept. When you have really big traps, you CAN’T touch your fucking ears. I go up as far as my traps will allow, which to some newbie may not seem like as much movement. That doesn’t mean it isn’t VERY effective, especially with the weights I am using.

The significance of full range of motion has been blown drastically out of proportion, especially when it concerns someone who is already big.

Ronnie Coleman would not be able to touch his ears with his shoulders no matter how hard he tried.[/quote]

Who the hell can touch their ears with their shoulders anyways ?

I cant remember actually ever trying that before now and I cant get anywhere close.

[quote]Sagat wrote:

What i was trying to say is that i still think the deadlifts and rack pulls are the best upper back exercises,[/quote]

Why?

as far as racks and shrugs are related, i dont think its very easy to do shrugs after a set of racks. not even because of how fatigued your traps are, but because of how shot your grip is. i suppose if you have a good set of dumb bells you could try that out but my gym only goes up to 100.

ive done them on a cable by setting the pin to the floor and getting a few steps back but you dont get constant tension and the max is what like 2-something?

Guys, when you do shrugs, do you shrug up then pull your shoulders down and back?

Or do you just go up and down?

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Sagat wrote:

What i was trying to say is that i still think the deadlifts and rack pulls are the best upper back exercises,

Why?

[/quote]

The usual argument: heavier weights.

I think Sagat is making a poor argument for Rack Pulls by saying they’re a better upper back exercise even though you can’t use as much weight.

The best argument for Rack Pulls being as good as or better than Shrugs is that you can handle more weight than you can with a Shrug.

If you are doing Rack Pulls for your traps, and not for your Deadlift, then you might as well be doing them above the knee.

One thing I’d like to hear from folks is what your ‘sweet spot’ is as far as what reps range works best for you? Low reps, high reps, both?

[quote]FightingScott wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Sagat wrote:

What i was trying to say is that i still think the deadlifts and rack pulls are the best upper back exercises,

Why?

The usual argument: heavier weights.

I think Sagat is making a poor argument for Rack Pulls by saying they’re a better upper back exercise even though you can’t use as much weight.

The best argument for Rack Pulls being as good as or better than Shrugs is that you can handle more weight than you can with a Shrug.

If you are doing Rack Pulls for your traps, and not for your Deadlift, then you might as well be doing them above the knee.

[/quote]

The best upper back exercise is the one that specifically targets your traps. Nothing does that better than heavy shrugs.

You may be able to use more weight doing some other exercise, but what other exercise involves you literally shrugging the weight up?

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
One thing I’d like to hear from folks is what your ‘sweet spot’ is as far as what reps range works best for you? Low reps, high reps, both?[/quote]

Most big guys are going to do shrugs like a power movement, ie. quick reps done in the range that allows constant contraction. My traps are generally fatigued (as well as my grip) after about 10 reps. Doing more reps would require a drop in weight. I have not found the need to do this at all.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Sagat wrote:

What i was trying to say is that i still think the deadlifts and rack pulls are the best upper back exercises,

Why?

[/quote]

I think they work the whole upper back hard. I was not comparing to shrugs, because as i said earlier i didnt do them much, i was thinking more of rack pulls compared to the various rows (that are also great, its more personal preference/experience).

[quote]Sagat wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Sagat wrote:

What i was trying to say is that i still think the deadlifts and rack pulls are the best upper back exercises,

Why?

I think they work the whole upper back hard. I was not comparing to shrugs, because as i said earlier i didnt do them much, i was thinking more of rack pulls compared to the various rows (that are also great, its more personal preference/experience).
[/quote]

Dude, they may randomly stimulate more back muscles, but nothing is going to beat directly working the traps through their own range of motion.