T Nation

Opinions On My New Protocol?


This is the new protocol I’ll be starting next week. What does TIW mean? Also, how will HCG benefit me besides helping fertility? Will it help me feel better by making my body produce more natural T, or is there more to it? Also he’s starting me on 0.125 AI, also TIW, the best I can figure, is that it means 3 times a week. I’ve heard bad things about AI but he wants me to use it starting out, should I be that weary of this? Also I will probably start out taking ED to keep steadier levels, and because I have very low SHBG.

According to wikipedia TIW is 3 times a week. So 150 mg total, a not an unreasonable starting dose. At least the prescribed AI dose is only 1/8 mg with the shot. you might consider waiting on it until you actually have side effects from estrogen. A lot of guys don’t need any. But if you want to follow the docs prescription for a bit I wouldn’t fault you. Maybe even just go once or twice a week with the ai instead of all three.

Heck I’d hold the HCG as well, unless you need to maintain fertility right now.

What you’ve got is 3 interacting things you’re trying to tune the dosing & scheduling on that’s a lot harder that just doing one at a time.

My estradiol is already high on 100mg e4d, so wouldn’t it rise with a higher dose of TC? Also is that all HCG is really meant for is fertility? Or are there more benefits to it?

Ok if you’re running high on estrogen the the ai makes sense especially with a dose bump.

Hard to say about the HCG, some guys love it some don’t. It’ll help keep your testicles producing T & from shrinking or return them to normal size. Some estrogen is produced inside the testes the ai stop that conversion, just something to be aware of. The jury is out on wether there are receptors elsewhere in the body that the hcg would link to.

Some guys just don’t feel well when using it. I haven’t tried it though.

A lot of guys use pretty much the same protocol you’re starting and do real well. What you’ll find a lot of times on online forums are people that have issues. While valid, they’re experience may be skewed towards the struggling side than the happy out of the gate side.

Run with what the doc prescribed and see how it goes. Fine tune as needed later. I don’t think you’re way off base, medicine is as much art as science and it may take a few attempts to get you dialed in.

Defy put me on the exact same protocol. Since you have low SHBG, you should probably go ahead with an ED protocol with just T Cyp, forget the HCG and AI.

How would I measure 150mg a week in mL, on ED protocol? Also I’ll probably just start with HCG and TC, and hold off on AI and hope the ED protocol lowers my e2 enough

Depends on the concentration of T you have. If it’s 200mg/ml then 0.75ml x 200mg/ml = 150mg per week. Divide by 7 for daily administration. 0.75ml / 7 = 0.11ml (roughly)
0.11ml x 200mg/ml = 22mg daily.

Basic math folks.

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Daily protocol will see almost static levels and since there is almost no decline in levels, the dosage must be lowered if coming from a (150mg) 50mg three times weekly protocol.

Could you explain why the dosage would need to be decreased? I understand there will be minimal fluctuations through the week by doing daily, but wouldn’t the average be about the same either way? Say measure daily levels for the 2 different protocols, then find the daily average, I would assume it would be the same.

The decline between injection on the EOD protocol was significant enough that I needed more testosterone versus a daily protocol. Injecting daily means I don’t need to compensate as much for the decline in levels that occurs between injections, so I need less.

When one injects weekly, the decline in hormones is greater than if this person was going to inject daily. You have to account for this decline on your next dosage.

@kgoggs basically what @ncsugrad2002 said is how you calculate your injection. As for the exact amount you need on ED, may vary. As @systemlord stated, the more you inject, the less T you may need a week. Not sure exactly what you’ll need, but probably better to start lower. I would think 18mg ED for 8 weeks.

Also, not sure why you insist on HCG when you haven’t gotten a baseline protocol down.

It is strange to me why Defy put so many guys on such protocol when In fact I’ve discussed with them and they told me for most guys every day injections work best. Are they so afraid guys will quit because of injection frequency?

Probably. It’s not easy to get people to get through the first 6-8 weeks anyways, add poking yourself every day and a lot of people just aren’t up for it. Esp when they’re feeling up and down and all over the place in the beginning. It wears people down.

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I understand that and a lot of people or pussying in poking themselves(like my bodybuilder friends think I’m a pussy for not using the 18g needle to stab it in my ass :D) but in that way they risk people to quit due to suboptimal protocol

You’re assuming everyone feels better on daily. Not everyone does. I didn’t.

Clinics have to find some reasonable middle ground that will make people feel better but not be so cumbersome that people don’t want to bother with it, especially in the beginning, so I think 2-3x a week is a reasonable answer there. It can always be increased if needed from there if people still feel the ups and downs, but plenty are on once a week and despite what we all read on the internet, they’re perfectly happy with the results

I’m currently on 100mg a week, split into two 50mg doses a week. I’m going to ED because I want to try and lower my e2 without taking an AI. I’m also increasing my dose to 150mg a week, so more potential of higher e2. My SHBG is also very low, so I burn through T quickly, and ED should also help with this according to defy. I was tempted to try 3 times a week, but I don’t mind injecting daily as long as I feel better than I do now. His initial protocol is 3 times a week, but he said if I’m willing to inject ED then to do it. He says he takes it every day himself and feels much better than any other protocol he’s tried.

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@ncsugrad2002 2x is pretty reasonable to start on and works for most people. Only would start on dailies if very low SHBG. As you said, even 1x works for a ton of people.

Dailies probably works best for a lot of people, but for most people they can get away with 1 or 2 times a week and still feel great.

Of course, when I started TRT I would have pushed back on daily injections, it took my awhile to get used to injecting, later when I was comfortable with injecting, only then would I consider injecting daily.

What problems could arise if I stay at 150mg weekly with ED protocol? My trough TT was 642 on e3d, free was 22 (on 100mg a week) , could these get too high and cause problems with too much T?

Yeah, might be too much. The less you inject, the less total weekly T you may need as there’s not much of a trough. I’d try 15mg a day for 8 weeks, which is literally what I’m doing now.