T Nation

Opinions On Muslims


#1

I'm reading this crap about how the muslim world is boycotting the Danish because they printed a caricature of Mohammed. It is, of course, their right to do that. But, it sort of points out the whole problem with the Islamic religion and Muslims in general. Ready??

They have no tolerance. Evidently the Q'uran forbids them from having a sense of humor about themselves as well.

So, herewith, I'd like to make an announcement to all Muslims worldwide.

I am not a Muslim. Therefore, I am not bound by the conventions of your faith. If I want to print a picture of Mohammed, fine. That's my right. If I want to eat a hamburger, fine, that's my right. I even own a Q'uran. That probably sends them into convulsions. Rest assured, my version is in English, so a.) it's probably not an accurate translation and b.) you probably don't even recognize it officially as a Q'uran because it isn't in written in it's native tongue.

Now, also get this. I'm a nice guy and I am, therefore, tolerant of the little quirks and weird things you do becase your religion dictates it. That means I won't make fun of you. That also means I won't pick up a rifle and chase your weird butt out of the country. Instead, my Christian religion teaches me that I should welcome you with open arms into my country and that I should respect you and your family for who you are without judging you.

I will do that. Why can't you?

RB


#2

What is with the stereotyping? Do you know this is how ALL Muslims feel? I watched Southpark make regular fun of Jesus Christ. I laughed. I doubt my mom or dad would and I am sure they would be offended by it, as I am sure many others might be as well. Does this mean that all Christians don't have a sense of humor or lack tolerance? Please, check your perfection at the door.


#3

People have a short memory. There was a time when Christians were accusing their neighbors of being witches and torturing people for not being Christians, or their kind of Christians. During the Inquisition, in fact, Jews would flee to Muslim controlled countries where they could practice their religion away from the persecution of their xenophobic Christian neighbors. There are still Christians who blow up abortion clinics and physically assault homosexuals.

Now, clearly not all modern Christians perform the last two acts, nor did all Christians participate in any of the above mentioned acts. There's always going to be a slim few, who may or may not wield political power, who do crazy shit like that.

The Muslim community is no different. Most Muslims are decent folk who you never hear about or see on TV. I've heard people ask, "Why don't they eject the terorists? Why don't they come out and say that these extremists don't represent them?" Why? Would you enjoy it more if you had moderate Muslims going door to door like Jehova's witnesses? I wouldn't. I don't need Christians coming to my door either after some Christians does something wierd and terrible either, because I know that religious groups are not homogeneous blocks.

Now, I haven't seen the little cartoons, nor am I particularly interested in seeing them. THey may or may not be something that I could understand people getting upset over. I believe that alot of Muslims in Europe will be upset about this because the Europeans seem to have gone out of their way to persecute their growing Muslim communities in the same way many American locales seem to persecute their Mexican immigrants. To make matters worse, I'm sure some of them are unable to read the writing that may accompany these drawings, adding to the misunderstanding and/or anger.

Now, you may be a truly tolerant human being who lives by the peaceful precepts you see in your faith. Many Christians (or Jews or Muslims or any other faith group you pick) are not. Many conservative Christians in this country are not particularly understanding or compassionate, and I would guess a slim few of them own or have even seen a Koran. (You are correct by the way that a Koran in english is not the Koran, as a "real" Koran must be transcribed in arabic with all the same words in the same places. Kind of neat...sure eliminates differences in translation.) I just get sick of the "anti-Muslim" vibe I get from some people that reflects a lack of understanding and compassion.

So, my opinion on Muslims, is the same as my opinion of Christians, Jews, lawyers, pizza delivery boys and sailors. Some are good, some are bad, but I will not categorize them by what arbitrary group they are associated with.

I hope we can have some good, intelligent social discourse.


#4

man did you just open a can of worms.


#5

Why can't we all just...get along?


#6

Wow, you just saved me 10 minutes :slight_smile:

To the OP,

As a muslim, I honestly don't care what cartoons you print. However, if someone found it offensive, it is not your place to berrate or belittle them. It is their perrogative to boycott whatever they want. I'm pretty sure southern baptists do it all the time.


#7

You're using boycotting as an example? Why didn't you mention the former Muslims who criticize Islam that have to live under armed guard 24 hours a day? Like this woman:

http://ayaanhirsiali.web-log.nl/categorie/46044

Again, the psychos are in the minority, but there's still quite a few of them.


#8

The only problem that I have with Muslims that can be categorized as a generalization is their outright refusal to denounce the terrorism and extremists among them, even while being asked why they aren't denouncing it.
Sure a few extremist "Christians" (albeit not true Christians) have comitted some pretty vile acts (bombing clinics, etc), but they are pretty much rebuked by the Christian community, even when the community agrees with the ideology behind why the extremist acted as such.
I don't see this from the Muslim leaders or the Muslim congregations. In fact, I see quite the opposite. I see celebration when a terrorist act is commited (I even saw it from stateside Muslims). I don't understand that.


#9

My oppinon on (Fill in name of religion here): AN attempt to create order out of chaos and explane the hapenings of people and the world. Totaly understandable given the state of the world. As long as said religion doesn't impact my ability to live my life in a maner I think is right, we're cool.

My oppinion on (Fill in name of followers of above named religion): Followers of teh faith. I admire there ability to believe and are envious of their faith. As long as that faith doesn't interfear with my ability to live my life, we're cool. healthy debate between faiths is activly encouraged.

My oppinion on fanatics that believe they alone hold the keys to heaven and if i don't believe i should burn and suffer a thousand horible deaths:

JUST FUCKING DIE!!

La'
Redsol1


#10

How many Christians openly rebuked the Oklahoma bombing in public regularly? It was almost immediately understood that it wasn't a representation of the majority so no one even bothered. Why is this different?


#11

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA. Man, i wish i was white so i get away with saying something this assinine. They have no tolerance? Dude, read some history. Actually, since you probably own some history books and can't make complete sense of what they say, just read the last few posts.

What? Let me repeat, WHAT? The fact that you own a Qu'ran would send me into convulsions? You sent me into convulsions with your statement, not that you're a Qu'ran bearing know-it-all. You do know Islam is the world's fastest growing religion (with buddhism)?. I'm sorry man, but the fact that you own the Qu'ran, perhaps have read it, and still, you would make such a statement does not bode well for you brother.

That's true.

I'll say this--the reason why this topic becomes a serious concern to muslims is because there are some people who take their religion seriously. I don't see why that's the problem. I'm not going to say that threatning someone is the way to go (man, those guys are stupid!), but getting upset is justified.

Btw, being nice and tolerant usually doesn't equate with being an asshole. "Guys, guys, i know y'all are weird and what not, and i like that. it's cool. So, Jesus told me it's okay if you're all quirky and shit." And since you're all Jesusified, it's not like you're weird or whatever to people who aren't christina. Not to mention that there are men powerful enough to change your religion, but Christianity also sure has some idiosynchrasies to it, like certain pagan holidays that reside in the 4th quarter. However, and most importantly, I think you should see how there is a towering list of similarities between Christianity and Islam, when compared to other religions.

so when someone tells catholic people they stifled human thought/progress. or that jews killed jesus. or hindhus worship anything and everything. or when Pat Robertson tells israeili PM sharon that he deserved everything he got by becoming a veg, you don't think that this voice of upset isn't deserved?

i dont think just sitting back and laughing with a very serious in topic works for a lot of people. regardless of how "tolerant" they are. sitting back and taking abuse does not usually equate to tolerance.


#12

The Muslims who commit vile acts are as much "true Muslims" as Christians who commit vile acts are "true Christians".


#13

OKC wasn't bombed in the name of Christianity.


#14

Hey RB, by chance, how many Muslims do you know personally?

You call the Muslims intolerant, but your generalizations are quite intolerant and insulting to the Islam faith.

Just like any other group of people, different Muslims have a wide variety of beliefs and ideals.

Some people are good to others, and some are just assholes. That applies every race and creed.


#15

Muslims, like us, are trying to practice a religion created by and for goatherds and gangs of marauders. The difference is that our governments no longer take religion seriously, while theirs do.

When's the last time anyone here seriously voted for a candidate because of their religion? Did Kerry lose because he was Catholic? Did Bush win because he's a BA christian? Nope.


#16

I was under the impression that it was to some degree. We can then substitute David Koresh for that role if that was not the case. Either way, there weren't tons of Christians speaking out against it as if they represented all of Christianity.


#17

I think this is true. There seem to be more people that take Islam seriously than take Chistianity seriously.

Hell, I know priests that are not sure if God exists yet Islam appears to be full of morons that will strap a bomb to their chest for the promise of 70 virgins in the afterlife.


#18

The OK City was not a religious based attack. As horrible as it was, Timothy McVey is a bitch, it was a political statement. Find another example.


#19

Yes, but they were both Christians, more generally believers.

Do you honstly think an atheist could get elected President?


#20

Wish I would have seen this thread first, then I might not have felt so embattled:
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=909475&pageNo=0#910595