T Nation

opinions needed

You have all most likely seen and been bored by my log I have going on my training/M1T cycle.

Hopefully it will be a bit more interesting in 2 weeks when I start the M1T/4AD.

Anyway, I am looking for opinions on the cycle I have planned. It is 2 on, 2 off, 2 on, then off again with final PCT.

Well I am all set for this. Got everything I need and much more. But something interesting has come to my attention. Word going around is that the whole 2on,2off,2on deal is not quite optimal. This due to the fact the 2 weeks off in the middle are useless because it is to short of a time to fully recover.

So the change to it is, that you still do 2on 2off 2on with the M1T, with the middle two weeks giving your liver and kidneys a break from the hepatoxicity of the M1T. The 4AD however you run straight through for 6 weeks. Then run 1 longer PCT @ the end of the 6 weeker.

Word is that you are no more supressed @ the end, and you get the added benefit of the 4AD in the middle weeks to continue to build lbm or at very least preserve the gains from the first two weeks of the M1T.

Just trying to weigh all my options and get the most out of this. The original plan was to run the M1T alone during first run (unless I needed it to combat bad sides) then run stacked during the second. If I were to change it to this approach I was thinking of doing nearly the same, only that I would add the 4AD in a couple days prior the end of the first M1T cycle, (if not befor)then through to the end.

so it would be
week 1-2 10mgM1T
Week 2-4 200mg 4AD
week 5-6 10mgM1T & 200mg 4AD

This was just interesting me. I wanted some opinions from all the wise T-fellows and T-felletts on this. Does this sound correct to you. As far as supression/and over all health. Also on the issue of added gains from the longer straight cycle.

I am still two weeks out, and like I stated have more than enough supps. on hand to make this adjustment. Just wanted to know if you felt it was worth it or just stick to the og. plan.

I could always try this later I guess, but would like the same feed back for that possible run.

Thanks on advance,
Phill

I am planning something similar. Look forward to feedback.

1 friendly little bump

I am planning something close as well except, you said two weeks dosen’t really do a lot for recovery and I agree. This is why I will be doing:
3 weeks on Mag-10 @ 9pills daily
3 weeks M & alphamale
3 weeks M1T 20mg ed/450mg ed 4AD
3 weeks M & alphamale
possibly try a 3 week cycle of Mag-10 single dose and 10mg of M1T and one more recovery after that if money permits.
I think three weeks will give my liver and balls more than enough time to recover and I may also through in some fat burners in the off weeks to get lean in between some serious bulking.
This will not start till middle of may because of time constrants and by then alpha male will hopefully be out. This will be my first cycle so tell me what yall think.
DA

Phill: sorry for being a dick and posting what I want to do before commenting on your cycle.
The only thing I would say is to up your 4AD doses. I have never heard of anyone getting results from less than 300mg ed especially when run by itself.
Also I plan on running milk thisle as sonn as I start on the M1T and taking it till about 3 weeks after my last cycle and hope you will do the same for your liver. Hope this does well for your gains.
GET BIG.
DA

Dark thanks for the response.

First I will touch on your cycle/s. If this is your first cycle you really need to lower your dose (of the M1T atleast) Their are to many people getting great results from 5g after being somewhat experienced with PH cycles. You are simply going to over due it befor you need to leading to having to take more for the same result befor needed. You also need to have the experience behind you to know how you react to the diff. compounds.

Just my 2 cc.

As for my cycle. I am actually leaning toward going with the revised version, but nothing 4 sure yet.

The 4AD dose. I have ran cycles of 4AD alone @ 800mg (by the way tarnsdermal application is much more bioavailable then oral, if I was going oral I would run it @ 1000 a day or more for a light dose0 Anyway the reasoning behind it being so low is to take just enough to combat side effects of lethargy and such. Going with a high dose (it is thought) limits the gains/negates some of the M1T by the two competeing for the same receptors and the weaker 4AD taking some of the M1t’S space.

So, If I go with the revised plan I was thinking of possibly upping the 4AD weeks 3 and 4, then back to 200mg during weeks 4&5.

The general dosing I hear for good stack with M1T/4ad is 100mg trans/600-1000mg oral 4AD per 5mg M1T.

Anyway thank again, and I dont mind @ all that you posted your info. first. I am interested in all aspect of others training and diet and lending a hand when I can.

Not to sound like a broken record, but, I hope you @least give my suggestion over lowering your doses a thought. The whole “more is better” approach is very over rated.

Also the Mag-10, When I ran it for the first time I, and MANY,had great gains off of single dose 2 week cycles. It is good stuff, and you cant get it anymore. No need to waste it. I would go for a single dose cycle, keep it three weeks though. This will be a good cycle to learn from (and powerfull first cycle) It will also let you see how your body reacts to the compound in a safe way.

I dont want to come off like an old woman or anything, but I am all about safety/mixed with good gains. If you moderatelow dose and take the time to nail down a solid diet, training and PCT plan you can out gain 90% of the ppl out there megadosing this crap. You’ll be functioning healthy with your new ly gained LBM also.

Phill

Any other opinions on my post are welcome and wanted.

Thanks,
Phill

One thing you might want to look out for is LETHARGY when doing the 1-T by itself. I believe most people stack it with 4AD to help combat this. I did the 1-T by itself and was miserable for about 1.5 weeks but after that things seemed to normalize and that’s when I started to see some really good results. It didn’t matter what I did; ECA, caffeine, anything. I was falling asleep at work. I actually ran it for 4 weeks (I didn’t do the Methyl, just 1-Test) and by the 2.5 weeks into it my pumps were getting insane. By the end of it, I had put on some good size, a little strength and my pumps were bordering on freakish (almost painful at times).

Good luck on your cycle. I’ve got some Mag-10 stored up that I’m going to run in about 12 weeks.

D

Phill:
Thanks for the feed back and I think I will take you up on lowering my dosage of the M1T top 10mg ed and the Mag-10 to a single dose.
You can however still buy Mag-10 on many sites and I do believe I will buy some more while supplies last so I can see what a few 3 on 3 off cycles of it will do for me. When I said to up your dose I didn’t know you were doing transdermal. I have heard that it absorbs quite well but I do not have the time nor the patients to aply it everyday so the oral is more for me. I hope the transdermal works well for you and these up coming cycles help you to GET BIG
DA

Dark thanks for the reply.

yea the trans. application takes a little gettig used to. But once you get on a roll you are good to go. Kinda like putting on lotion everyday, and the greater absoption is worth the little hassle to me.

Good idea on the cycles. Start low you can alway raise it if you need to, but I imagine you will GROW like a weed.

I know there is the argument about you can always lower the dose. I would rather raise mine due to not responding then lower it due to health probs…

Good gains to u as well,
Phill

“I know there is the argument about you can always lower the dose. I would rather raise mine due to not responding then lower it due to health probs…”
Good point Phill.
I will start these cycles in the middle of june but, since we are on the topic do you think taking just 4AD 300mg ed for 2 weeks by itself could help keeping muscle while cutting right now?
Thanks for the help.
DA

Yes, it would help to a point. If you are still talking oral I would say a low moderate dose to give you a little help while cutting would be 500mg (split into 2 doses). 4AD simply isnt that bioavailable orally. 1.5g a day is not uncommon.

But this would be a GOOD first/cutting cycle for you to get experience with it and PCT. You should ba able to cut cals lower than usual. I wouldnt go extremely low or anything. Also remember 4AD is known for packing on water so you may be losing wieght but not think you are at first. The water will go away during and after PCT.

Give it a go.

Phill

man the water retion issue sucks since I hold lots of water any way but, you say it will do me some good so I will try it out. I will order some now and get some Grow, tribex, amd M while Im at it. Thanks alot for all the help.
DA

No problem on the help. Anytime just holler.

Good luck on the cycle, grow (or I guess atleast maintain LBM), learn, and enjoy.

4 sure get the tribex and M. You dont want to ignore your PCT.

Keep us informed on how it goes.

My M1T, 6-OXO, Milk Thistle and Tribex 500 came today. Going to wait a couple weeks to start it. We’ll see how it goes.

Infinity,

Sounds interesting!!

What is your plan as far as dosing and such?

I will add that posting my plan befor hand has helped quite a bit do to the input/opinions that I have received. It just seems to me that others are able to see little areas in our plans that we for some reason overlook. Nothing major, usually, just little tweeks that help to perfect it.

Either way good luck and I will be looking forward to your results.

Phill

Phill: well I find out monday if I am ditching the 4AD and M1T idea or not. I have a friend who might be picking me up some bottles of Mag-10 for under $50. If he can come through I will hold off on the 4AD and the M1T stack for a while and just wait till I get back from my trip in May. Then start doing the 3 weeks on and 3 weeks off back and forth for most of the summer and just get huge before I have to go back to school in the fall.
Well if you have started your stack yet tell us how it is going.
DA

I plan on starting a week from monday.

Will have my final strenght w/o in the morning. Then a week off. Good thing to as of this week, my joints started to get ache quite a bit all the sudden. I think it is do to the concentration strictly on heavy weight, low rep, high # of set work starting to take its toll. I did gain some good strenght though and should be ready for some higher rep stuff.

As far as your 3 on 3 off plan. It sounds good to a point but you may consider giving yourself a little longer break after a couple of those cycles to truely fully recover and maintian natural test. You will be just getting straight and (hopefully) and then shutting it all down again. You really dont want to keep this up for to long.

Keep us up on your plans.

Phill

I agree completely. I will be doing 2 or 3 of these and then taking a full month off after the 2nd or 3rd 3 week off phase. It all depends on my body and how I recover each time. If I feal it takes me longer the second time or if I just don’t feal 100% or better after the 2nd 3 weeks off I will deffinantly just take another 2 or 3 more and recover completely.
There is no need to build myself up on ph/ps just so I will destroy my natural test and have to rely on them fully later on in life.
Good advice and good luck on the finals.
DA

Thanks for the “GGOD LUCK”

I think I am about ready, just not sleeping very well right now. Got a lot on my mind.

Good to see you had the whole recovery deal in mind. Just looking out so you didnt screw your self up potentially.

Just an opinion to those of you doing M1T cycles and thinking about using M and Tribex or Alphamale as PCT. I’m not sure if those products will cut it as far as I would like to see. I’ve seen blood tests of people being completely shut down after only 3 days, almost like deca. 6-oxo might be a better option, in my opinion. I just want to take every precaution when it comes to my test levels. Just a thought, not ripping on anybody’s plans.