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Opinions from the Experienced

Hi, this is my first Thread, I hope I got everything right and in order, Ill start with my brief story… if you like you can skip right to the body statics but this explains how i went to 120 lbs, yes 120 lbs (I prefer the term skinny as fuck, now im just skinny) and i was 6 ft, to 189 lbs w 12 to 13% body fat. and why I’m dead serious about my training, diet, transformation and overall health.

I have a blood disease, called spherocytosis, its not dangerous, but in my case it got to a point where it put my life at risk,this disease causes my red blood cells to be misshapen, instead of the regular form they have a sphere form, also I have a naturally ( and because of the sickness) weak immune system.

the misshapen but otherwise healthy red blood cells are mistaken by the spleen for old or damaged red blood cells and it thus constantly breaks them down, causing a cycle whereby the body destroys its own blood supply (auto-hemolysis). and the spleen to grow at an abnormal rate, doctors took it out, and now im fine, just weak immune system.

when i was out of surgery I was 120 lbs. 2 1/2 years later here I am, but i still have a long way to go

I was 120 lbs, 6 ft, when I got out of a spleen surgery (internal bleeding)like 3 years ago, now Im 189 lbs 6ft, training for 2 and a half years… I know i don’t have the most outstanding physique, but trust me, gaining 70 lbs with minimum fat wasn’t easy … and i will have it, I will have an outstanding physique, but in order to continue my transformation I need all the help I can get… and everyone around me on the gyms I’ve been tells me to go roids, but i refuse.

Im natural and planning to stay that way, i want to be 195 to 200 lbs lbs with 8 % body fat at least… maybe its a long shot, but i have an extreme sense of discipline and determination, and Im dead serious about my training, the gym changed my life, and some day i would like to compete as a male fitness model or a light weight bodybuilder, I just need the right instructions.

maybe its not a lot of progress for 2 ½ years of training… Im getting a little discouraged because I really don’t know where to keep going, or what to do, my results feel really slow… and im sick of not knowing if what im doing its right…

My body statics are

Age: 19
Weight : 189 lbs
Height: 6 ft
Body fat : 13 to 14 %
Years training: 2 and a half
Training: no cardio, except warm-up (7 min on the treadmill) and the run home, (about 10 min, moderate pace) and lift very heavy (225lbs bench press 7 reps) weight routine done in 50 minutes.

Day 1 - Legs/Abs
Exercise Sets Reps
Barbell Squats 3 5 - 9
Leg Press 3 5 - 9
Stiff-Legged Deadlifts 3 5 - 9
Lying Leg Curls 2 5 - 9
Standing Machine Calf Raises 2 10 - 12
Seated Machine Calf Raises 2 5 - 9
Rope Crunches 2 10 - 12
Swiss Ball Crunches 2 10 - 12

Day 2 ? Chest/Shoulders/Triceps
Exercise Sets Reps
Flat Barbell Bench Press 3 5 - 9
Incline Dumbbell Press 3 5 - 9
Wide-Grip Dips 2 5 - 9
Seated Overhead Dumbbell Press 2 5 - 9
Standing Side Laterals 3 10 - 12
Cable Pushdowns 2 5 - 9
EZ-Bar Skull Crushers 2 5 - 9

Day 3 ? Back/Biceps/Forearms
Exercise Sets Reps
Deadlifts 3 5 - 9
Overhand Chin-Ups 3 5 - 9
Bent Over Barbell Rows 3 5 - 9
Barbell Shrugs 2 10 - 12
Barbell Curls 2 5 - 9
Seated Dumbbell Curls 3 5 - 9
Barbell Wrist Curls 1 10 - 12

Diet: Im on a clean bulk, some of you might be against it, but Im following the advice of Christian Thibaudeau, in the truth about bulking article.
I really recommend it http://www.T-Nation.com/...h_about_bulking

about 3500 cals

8 am: 2 cups of oat meal, 50 gr of protein, 1 cup of milk

11 am: tuna sandwich , 2 slices of whole wheat bread, i can of water tuna, (22 g of protein) ½ avocado, fat free cheese, lettuce, and tomatoes.

1 pm: 2 cups of rice, 250 g of chicken, fish, or steak, and salad.

3 pm Before training : 1 cup of oatmeal, 30g of protein, 1 tbsp of olive oil.

6 pm After training: 2 2/3 cups of pineapple juice, 50 g of protein.

8 pm : 1 2/3 cups of rice, 1 can of tuna, salad, 2 tbsp of olive oil.

I have increased the kcals by 4000, and changed the training order and exercises to day 1: legs/abs, day 2: chest/bicep/tricep and day 3 back/shoulders, and it is giving results, but im asking this because sometimes results comes in spite what you do, not because of it, maybe there are some things in the program I can improve, thanks in advance

  • Fenix

I don’t know exactly what your asking, but I personally don’t like the look of the workout. The rep ranges seem strange, and its maybe not enough sets.

Did you make it up yourself?

[quote]hardgnr wrote:
I don’t know exactly what your asking, but I personally don’t like the look of the workout. The rep ranges seem strange, and its maybe not enough sets.

Did you make it up yourself?[/quote]

No, i got it from the Sean Nalewanyj ebook, truth about muscle building, but im open to suggestions, thats why I posted it, do you think it should have more sets , reps, exercises?? thanks in advance

Honestly if your goal is to weight only 200lbs I don’t see that being a problem for someone who already has the results you do after 2 years. In fact its kinda strange that you doubt yourself at all after gaining 70lbs in 2 years.

Said you bumped it up to 4000 cal but since your 6’ you might need even more than that, just be consistent and watch what works for YOU; Your diet is already very clean and your getting lots of protein so don’t be afraid to add in some extra cals.

I think you will have better luck with just changing how you split your days, it should help since you wont have all your pushing in 1 workout and all your pulling in another.

How long have you been doing your current workout program? Do you have the time to add in an extra day of training each week?

You just had a thread about this, with the same pictures, not two days ago. I read it. WHY did you repost basically the same thread?

Ok, so the bump in calories is good. Wait two to three weeks and if you haven’t gained any weight, bump them up another 400-500.

You’re probably pushing the upper end of what you can do productively on each day you train. If you want to add more volume in the way of sets/reps you need to split your days up.

Instead of Chest/Triceps/Shoulders I would cut the shoulders and make a separate day of Shoulders/Biceps. That brings you to 4 training days/week. You could also cut calf work out and do those on a separate day as your low intensity workout with some ab work. That’s 5 days/week with one pretty easy day (the calves/abs).

Frankly, I don’t believe you can really give 100% focus to more than about 5 exercises in one training day (NOT counting abs). 6 is pushing it. 7-8 is just dumb IMHO.

That’s another argument in favor of splitting workouts up more.

Or look at it this way–On back day you’re doing a measly 11 sets of back work: 1 whole body movement that’s not a “back movement” although it IS hard, and only 8 (thats 8!) sets for the biggest and most complex group of muscles on your body. You’re not giving your full energy to your bicep movements because you’re already tired.

By comparison, my back day consists of between 12-18 sets of pure back work (but no deadlifts).

3-4 sets chins/lats
4-5 sets rows
4-5 sets other rows
3-4 sets shrugs
rear delt work for pre-habilitation

8 sets vs. 12-18 sets. Which do YOU think is going to build a better back?

Now, if you want to deadlift on back day, go for it. I don’t like it, but I know other big people who do like it. In that case I’d keep your “pure” back movements like rows/lats/shrugs to a total of about 12 sets.

The point is, your volume and your intensity sucks because you have to cram so many different movements into 1 day. You don’t get your best out of your arm training because your biceps are at the tail end of the workout, and it’s pointless.

Bottom line is–IF you decide to only work a body part once a week, you need a lot more volume than you have there to grow. BUT this also means you have to split your training days up because you can’t give your best focus and energy to the 6th, 7th, or 8th exercises because you’re already tired.

IF you decide to work a body part MORE than once a week, you can split your volume in half. So I’d only do maybe 7-8 sets of back work if I did it twice a week in that example.

So, unless you’re going to start an Upper/Lower style of training, split your damn workouts up. Take Shoulders and Biceps and put them on a separate day at least, probably after your back day, so they’d be the 4th workout and the last of the week.

[quote]Psicks wrote:
Honestly if your goal is to weight only 200lbs I don’t see that being a problem for someone who already has the results you do after 2 years. In fact its kinda strange that you doubt yourself at all after gaining 70lbs in 2 years.

Said you bumped it up to 4000 cal but since your 6’ you might need even more than that, just be consistent and watch what works for YOU; Your diet is already very clean and your getting lots of protein so don’t be afraid to add in some extra cals.

I think you will have better luck with just changing how you split your days, it should help since you wont have all your pushing in 1 workout and all your pulling in another.

How long have you been doing your current workout program? Do you have the time to add in an extra day of training each week?

[/quote]

I have been using this training for 2 months, I has given results… but I kinda get discouraged because I has been a lot of gain for 2 1/2 years, but all that gain was just to look normal, I feel like now im the stage where from here on, further gains would look great, but also gains have become hard to get,

I do have time for an other day, I did this day split because my recovery sucks,and tend to get overtrained, so I tried to stay on the safe side ( 3 days training, once per week body part) but if I increase my calories I think it should be safe to add one day, tell me what you think about this split

( I didnt make it up, just modified it so i has pulling and pushing combined) i got it from an article by Kelly baggett:

Mon: Lower (Quadricep focused)
Squat: 4-5 x 6-8 with full rests
SLDL: 3 x 6-8 with full rests
Leg press: 2 x 15-20 with full rests
Leg curl: 3 x 5-8 with short rests
Calf raise: 4 x 5 (5 seconds down, 5 seconds pause at bottom)

Tue: Upper (Chest, biceps and triceps)
Flat bench: 4-5 x 6-8 with full rests
Dumbell incline press 3-4 x 6-8 with full rests
wheiged wide grip dips- 2 x 12-15
barbell curls 3 x 6-10
seated dumbell curls 3 x 6-10
overhead extensions 3 x 6-10
cable pushdowns 3x 6-10

Thurs: Lower (glute/ham focused)
Deadlift- 4-5 x 6
Front Squat- 3 x 8
leg curl - 3-5 x 6-12 with short rests
leg ext- 3 x 15
Calf raise - 3 x 10-10-10 (triple drop)

Friday or Saturday: Upper (Shoulder and Back)
Military Press 3 5 - 7
Standing Dumbbell Side Laterals 3 10 - 12
One arm DB Row- 4 x 12-15
Deadlifts 4 5 - 8
Bent Over Barbell Rows 4 5 - 8
Overhand Chin-Ups 4 6 - 10

I appreciate all opinions, thanks

  • Fenix

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
You just had a thread about this, with the same pictures, not two days ago. I read it. WHY did you repost basically the same thread?

Ok, so the bump in calories is good. Wait two to three weeks and if you haven’t gained any weight, bump them up another 400-500.

You’re probably pushing the upper end of what you can do productively on each day you train. If you want to add more volume in the way of sets/reps you need to split your days up.

Instead of Chest/Triceps/Shoulders I would cut the shoulders and make a separate day of Shoulders/Biceps. That brings you to 4 training days/week. You could also cut calf work out and do those on a separate day as your low intensity workout with some ab work. That’s 5 days/week with one pretty easy day (the calves/abs).

Frankly, I don’t believe you can really give 100% focus to more than about 5 exercises in one training day (NOT counting abs). 6 is pushing it. 7-8 is just dumb IMHO.

That’s another argument in favor of splitting workouts up more.

Or look at it this way–On back day you’re doing a measly 11 sets of back work: 1 whole body movement that’s not a “back movement” although it IS hard, and only 8 (thats 8!) sets for the biggest and most complex group of muscles on your body. You’re not giving your full energy to your bicep movements because you’re already tired.

By comparison, my back day consists of between 12-18 sets of pure back work (but no deadlifts).

3-4 sets chins/lats
4-5 sets rows
4-5 sets other rows
3-4 sets shrugs
rear delt work for pre-habilitation

8 sets vs. 12-18 sets. Which do YOU think is going to build a better back?

Now, if you want to deadlift on back day, go for it. I don’t like it, but I know other big people who do like it. In that case I’d keep your “pure” back movements like rows/lats/shrugs to a total of about 12 sets.

The point is, your volume and your intensity sucks because you have to cram so many different movements into 1 day. You don’t get your best out of your arm training because your biceps are at the tail end of the workout, and it’s pointless.

Bottom line is–IF you decide to only work a body part once a week, you need a lot more volume than you have there to grow. BUT this also means you have to split your training days up because you can’t give your best focus and energy to the 6th, 7th, or 8th exercises because you’re already tired.

IF you decide to work a body part MORE than once a week, you can split your volume in half. So I’d only do maybe 7-8 sets of back work if I did it twice a week in that example.

So, unless you’re going to start an Upper/Lower style of training, split your damn workouts up. Take Shoulders and Biceps and put them on a separate day at least, probably after your back day, so they’d be the 4th workout and the last of the week.[/quote]

Answering your 1st question, I posted a similar thread because I wasn’t getting any responses on this one…

And thanks for your help, if you could be so kind to check the workout I posted on the last msg, and tell me what you think about it, im reluctant to add an other training day because i tend to get over trained, but I think its about time i add one more day, thanks for your help.

Your 19… at that age you should be able to workout like crazy, party all night barely sleep and still have energy for your next workout; you are deffinatly just not eating enough.

I doubt your overtraining. Too many people scream overtraining when they have no idea what it actually is, and it takes a long time to reach a true state of it.

That workout above is probably better, but deadlifts 2 days in a row is pretty stupid. And leg ext on a glute/ham day? It doesn’t seem very well thought out.

this is the new routine all cleaned up, see if this is better… trextacy helped me cleaning it, also, doing cardio in the morning is it a good idea (on empty stomach) for say, 20 or 15 min, or do cardio moderate pace 30 min on non lifting days…??

Mon: Lower (Quadricep focused)
Squat: 4-5 x 6-8 with full rests
SLDL: 3 x 6-8 with full rests
Leg press: 2 x 15-20 with full rests
Calf raise: 4 x 5 (5 seconds down, 5 seconds pause at bottom)
abs

Tue: Upper (Chest, biceps and triceps)
Flat bench: 4-5 x 6-8 with full rests
Dumbell incline press 3-4 x 6-8 with full rests
wheiged wide grip dips- 2 x 12-15
barbell curls 3 x 6-10
seated dumbell curls 3 x 6-10
overhead extensions 3 x 6-10
cable pushdowns 3x 6-10

Thurs: Lower (glute/ham focused)
Deadlift- 4-5 x 6
Front Squat- 3 x 8
leg curl - 3-5 x 6-12 with short rests
Calf raise - 3 x 10-10-10 (triple drop)
abs

Friday or Saturday: Upper (Shoulder and Back)
Military Press 3 5 - 7
Standing Dumbbell Side Laterals 3 10 - 12
One arm DB Row- 3 x 12-15
Bent Over Barbell Rows 3 5 - 8
supinated grip pull-Ups 3 6 - 10

[quote]FenixRise wrote:
this is the new routine all cleaned up, see if this is better… trextacy helped me cleaning it, also, doing cardio in the morning is it a good idea (on empty stomach) for say, 20 or 15 min, or do cardio moderate pace 30 min on non lifting days…??

Mon: Lower (Quadricep focused)
Squat: 4-5 x 6-8 with full rests
SLDL: 3 x 6-8 with full rests
Leg press: 2 x 15-20 with full rests
Calf raise: 4 x 5 (5 seconds down, 5 seconds pause at bottom)
abs

Tue: Upper (Chest, biceps and triceps)
Flat bench: 4-5 x 6-8 with full rests
Dumbell incline press 3-4 x 6-8 with full rests
wheiged wide grip dips- 2 x 12-15
barbell curls 3 x 6-10
seated dumbell curls 3 x 6-10
overhead extensions 3 x 6-10
cable pushdowns 3x 6-10

Thurs: Lower (glute/ham focused)
Deadlift- 4-5 x 6
Front Squat- 3 x 8
leg curl - 3-5 x 6-12 with short rests
Calf raise - 3 x 10-10-10 (triple drop)
abs

Friday or Saturday: Upper (Shoulder and Back)
Military Press 3 5 - 7
Standing Dumbbell Side Laterals 3 10 - 12
One arm DB Row- 3 x 12-15
Bent Over Barbell Rows 3 5 - 8
supinated grip pull-Ups 3 6 - 10
[/quote]

I like both of the new routines you posted, except that I can tell where you modified Kelly’s program in the first post, and this one. I have a high respect for Kelly Baggett. Baggett writes pretty good programs for athletes, and has a lot of training knowledge. He used to post on these forums and I always learned something from him even if I disagreed with him.

That being said, I’m almost positive you’re not overtraining. You’re just not. you probably feel really really tired after each of your workouts, but thats normal. Arnold once said “there’s no such thing as overtraining, just undersleeping and undereating”. Now while that’s a definite exaggeration and you can DEFINITELY overtrain, he’s correct to a large degree.

Most people claim they’re overtraining when in fact they are under-eating and not sleeping enough.

As far as this new cleaned routine is concerned, I’d suggest trying it for a while with increased calories. My suspicion is that your Tuesday workout has too much and should be split up for a dedicated arm day, and that at least one leg day has room for another exercise. Actually, I’d say both leg days could use another isolation exercise. Your mileage may vary, so try it out for a while.