T Nation

Opinion on this Routine?

goal: size and strength, powerbuilder.
experience: closing in on 3 years but have wasted a lot of that time on fat loss attempt which never went anywhere

what i have done from august to now:
push
pull
legs
cadio
repeat
can elaborate on my program if you wonder

nutrition: eating a small surplus with atleast 1 gram of protein per lb

what i am thinking of switching to

upper
lower
cardio
upper
lower
cardio
rest

why: more frequency and rest days

upper:
bench press coupled with pulldowns: 4 sets 5-8 reps on bench, 8-12 on pulldowns
incline bench press coupled with cable row: 3 sets 5-10 reps on both
shoulder press dumbbells coupled with ez bar curls: 4 sets 5-10 on shoulder press, 8-12 on curls
lying dumbbell tricep extension coupled with hammer curls: 3 sets 8-12 on tricep extensions 5-10 on hammer curls
bent over raises coupled with lateral raise: 3 sets 5-10 reps

lower
squats: 3-4 sets, heavy
deadlifts: 3-4 sets, heavy
flat one leg leg press, 5 ramping sets
leg raises coupled with kneeling cable crunches.

opinions?

I would switch around your lower and upper days so it’s not affecting your cardio days. I found out very quickly that with frequency you cannot go as heavy every workout of you will get burnt out. I gained strength pretty crazy in 3 weeks and kept making myself progress but the 4th week I was gassed out and did not progress much (most likely to do with diet and being a student). However, if you have controlled all other variables that will keep you gaining then I say go for it.

Perhaps alternate between a heavy week and a rep week to allow variability and recovery from heavy weeks. Other than that I cannot offer much more advice.

Can you be a little more inclusive about your nutrition? Inclusive doesn’t solid like the right word… I think you know what I men though. Also what’s your height + weight + approx bf %

For upper, is it triceps or lat pulldowns with bench? I’d say the reps on your upper day seem a little high.

For the squats + deads I assume the sets on there don’t include warmup sets, which for heavy squats would pretty Mich be necessary. Ow cake the leg press I one legged? I guess its jet preference I suppose but I always found good results with 4 sets of 2 0followed by a burnout set.

Sorry I’m going this from my phone so its going to loud mildly retarded. Continuing on the Abs work seems be lacking a little. Also if you’re only eating a mild surplus you don’t need cardio.

thanks for replies, i tried writing a reply myself but it just didn’t get posted.

well anyways i have tried the upper body day, which is the real thing different from my old push/pull/leg routine. and well it was very intense, really tiring to say the least. but something happened which i didn’t expect, i though that since the two exercises supersetted was opposites, it would not effect eachother but it seems like it did. i think the bench press, cable row was effected. maybe this is just today?

or maybe i’ll grow a bigger work tolerance over time? i don’t know. all i know is this program would give me more rest and slightly more frequency(especially for lower part of my body), but if it doesn’t let me go to failure and hit PRS then fuck it.

i am going to change it a little bit tough, i’ll move the laterals and bent over raises earlier infront of the bicep and tricep work. i might have 30 sec rest between the exercises and then 3 minute rest once both are done.

really hope i’ll build some better work capacity over time, but if not i’ll just move back its not like i werent making progress on the old one, just slow on the big lifts and lower body.

[quote]Peter Noto wrote:
Can you be a little more inclusive about your nutrition? Inclusive doesn’t solid like the right word… I think you know what I men though. Also what’s your height + weight + approx bf %

For upper, is it triceps or lat pulldowns with bench? I’d say the reps on your upper day seem a little high.

For the squats + deads I assume the sets on there don’t include warmup sets, which for heavy squats would pretty Mich be necessary. Ow cake the leg press I one legged? I guess its jet preference I suppose but I always found good results with 4 sets of 2 0followed by a burnout set.[/quote]

height: 5,8, weight: 180 lbs, bf: 16-17%

lat pulldown

yeah it doesn’t include warm up, i usually go heavy on the warm up and try to get technique inn without tireing myself. i don’t believe in very easy tamping warm ups.

i choose one leg leg press because i feel it better, dont know why. i think i might go deeper naturally with one leg.

about my nutrition, well there is not much to say. the only thing i focus on is to get enough protein, i eat things like pizza, hot dogs, fish cake( some kind of fish ish food that you cook
on a stove) bread and lots of dairy

your strength’ll take a dip when you start pairing pushes with pulls, but it’ll come back. That’s how I train and I love it.

I like your routine, I would personally do incline dumbell presses instead of barbell, and pair that with dumbell rows.

Also pairing bent over laterals with normal laterals I don’t think would work very well but that’s up to you.

[quote]rds63799 wrote:
your strength’ll take a dip when you start pairing pushes with pulls, but it’ll come back. That’s how I train and I love it.

I like your routine, I would personally do incline dumbell presses instead of barbell, and pair that with dumbell rows.

Also pairing bent over laterals with normal laterals I don’t think would work very well but that’s up to you.[/quote]

yeah i do incline dumbbell too, just forgot to write dumbbell. sadly i can’t pair with dumbbell row as i reached 50 kg or 110 lbs for 12 and my gym doesn’t have heavier dumbbells. still its an exercise that i love and when i have the energy i think i will be doing it at home, where i can modify the dumbbells weight.

why do you think that pairing bent over laterals with standing ones won’t work too well?

i have changed a little on it since i tried it for the first time. i think that from the flat and incline bench press , my anterior shoulders have gotten enough so i’ll add another tricep/pec exercise and pair that with the ez bar curls instead.

Mot sure which to settle at yet so currently just doing pushdowns. i tough of dips, they would be great as they hit my chest some more, but i cant do them because it feels like it rips my sternum at the middle and it starts to crack more normally (like when you crack your fingers).

I just think you’ll be too fatigued from the bent over laterals to really be able to push the laterals.

Why not swap it around a bit and pair the laterals with the curls, and rear delt flyes with the new chest/triceps exercise you’re thinking about?

yes i think thats a good idea, i’ll try that next session.

Id stick with the 3 way split just change up one or two variables like rep scheme/ volume from week to week

[quote]RampantBadger wrote:
Id stick with the 3 way split just change up one or two variables like rep scheme/ volume from week to week[/quote]
ah, why would you do that?

btw my old routine was this:

pull day:
lat pulldowns: 5 sets
cable row: 4 sets
bent over raises: 3 sets
hammer curls: 3 sets
ez bar curls: 4 sets
later at home: dumbbell rows, 5 sets

push day:
bench press 4-5 sets
shoulder press: 3 sets
lateral raises, 3 sets
dumbbell incline bench press 4 sets
lying dumbbell tricep extensions 4 sets
later at home: clean and jerk 5 sets

legs:
squats 3-5 sets
deadlift-3-4 sets
one leg flat leg press 5 ramping sets

cardio:
ran 4 km as fast as i can, was thinking of increasing time when i reached that. i mainly did cardio because of health reasons, i heard it was important to do. but later i also heard that strenght training provide the same benefits and jogging only cuts into your recovery abilities
cable crunches coupled with calf raises 5 sets

[quote]ultralars wrote:

[quote]RampantBadger wrote:
Id stick with the 3 way split just change up one or two variables like rep scheme/ volume from week to week[/quote]
ah, why would you do that?

btw my old routine was this:

pull day:
lat pulldowns: 5 sets
cable row: 4 sets
bent over raises: 3 sets
hammer curls: 3 sets
ez bar curls: 4 sets
later at home: dumbbell rows, 5 sets

push day:
bench press 4-5 sets
shoulder press: 3 sets
lateral raises, 3 sets
dumbbell incline bench press 4 sets
lying dumbbell tricep extensions 4 sets
later at home: clean and jerk 5 sets

legs:
squats 3-5 sets
deadlift-3-4 sets
one leg flat leg press 5 ramping sets

cardio:
ran 4 km as fast as i can, was thinking of increasing time when i reached that. i mainly did cardio because of health reasons, i heard it was important to do. but later i also heard that strenght training provide the same benefits and jogging only cuts into your recovery abilities
cable crunches coupled with calf raises 5 sets

[/quote]

heres a basic powerbuilding style upper/lower

you can performs this either 3 times a week or 4

Day 1
Flat bench 5x5 (pyramid up)
2-board press - work up to heavy triple
DB bench (angle of choice) 1 high rep set (20+ reps)
Upright row 3x8
Pushdowns 3-4x8-15

Day 2
Deadlift + chains - work up in singles, drop chains 1x8
Powerclean 4x2
GM 3x5
Pullups - wide grip 2xmax, close parallel grip 2xmax
BB curls - whatever

Day 3
Flat bench - 5x5 (set weight)
Floor press - work up to heavy triple
Seated BB press - 3x6
Shrugs - 4x12
Dips - 2 sets

Day 4
Squats - 1x3, 1x8
Hang clean - 5/3/1/1/1
SLDL + chains - 3x6
BB row - 4x8
DB curls - whatever

this routine isnt set in stone you dont have to perform the oly lifts if you dont want, or any exercise for that matter

[quote]ultralars wrote:

[quote]RampantBadger wrote:
Id stick with the 3 way split just change up one or two variables like rep scheme/ volume from week to week[/quote]
ah, why would you do that?

btw my old routine was this:

pull day:
lat pulldowns: 5 sets
cable row: 4 sets
bent over raises: 3 sets
hammer curls: 3 sets
ez bar curls: 4 sets
later at home: dumbbell rows, 5 sets

push day:
bench press 4-5 sets
shoulder press: 3 sets
lateral raises, 3 sets
dumbbell incline bench press 4 sets
lying dumbbell tricep extensions 4 sets
later at home: clean and jerk 5 sets

legs:
squats 3-5 sets
deadlift-3-4 sets
one leg flat leg press 5 ramping sets

cardio:
ran 4 km as fast as i can, was thinking of increasing time when i reached that. i mainly did cardio because of health reasons, i heard it was important to do. but later i also heard that strenght training provide the same benefits and jogging only cuts into your recovery abilities
cable crunches coupled with calf raises 5 sets

[/quote]
3 way split is very proven, squatting and deadlifting ‘heavy’ every other workout will leave you very banged up. What you posted is fine, I’d add in some direct hamstring work on leg day and maybe alternate between squats and deads every other workout