T Nation

Opinion on Bill Roberts 2 On/4 Off Protocol

I have been reading about Bill Roberts protocol 2on/4off and to be honest I love the idea and thinking about trying it soon and the reason is because I have done two 10 week cycles and both times I lost everything I gained during/after pct.

First cycle was test300/bold300/masteron300 pct 50 mg/day clomid for 4 weeks
gained 10 pounds total
Second cycle Test E 400 tren E 300 pct nolva 20 mg/day & clomid 50 mg/day
gained 12 lbs lost 2% body fat at the same time,(gained a lot of hair chest/Back)
Noticed that in both cycles I have gains till week 6 and after that i didnt gain nothing even after increasing the calories

So now i am thinking, i gain fast first 6 weeks and lose everything during/after cycle, looks like i gain a lot of water weight so i need to use dry steroids, which after looking at all the DHT derivatives profile looks like the only one that can give fast/dry gains in 2 weeks without converting to estrogen is Methyldrostanolone (aka superdrol)

So i am thinking about trying 20-30 mg/day methyldrostanolone 2on/4off and since im not a fan of IM injections using Testosterone Suspension in low dosage just so estrogen doesnt fall to low.
Now the question is,am i going to have full recovery in 4 weeks with a steroid like superdrol(liver, kidneys , tests,Cholesterol etc)
I tried to PM to Bill Roberts but since im a new member for some reasons it didnt let me, so any thoughts is appreciated.

This is not a good idea at all. You would be better off posting in the beginners forum and asking the learned Chris Colucci for diet advice.

If you are hell bent on doing something stupid after 2 failed cycles. it would be the lessor of both evils to pulse superdrol on alternate days for 6-8 weeks instead of 2 weeks on 4 weeks off.

How about you stop trying to let the drugs do it for you and figure out how to train and eat to grow. Period flat there is no reason period you should be losing all you gained after your first or even second time.

[quote]Reed wrote:
How about you stop trying to let the drugs do it for you and figure out how to train and eat to grow. Period flat there is no reason period you should be losing all you gained after your first or even second time. [/quote]

x2. If you can’t grow off the drugs, you won’t see much success on the drugs. I am not knocking down your idea because I’ve used this protocol with success several times but I’d never take away from the fact that long cycles are just as effective if not more. Get in the gym. Find a good training regimen. Track your macros and log results. There’s tons of people that hold onto gains after cycle (lbm gains, not water gains). When that person isn’t you then you have to ask yourself what you’re doing wrong cause you look like a fool blaming the drugs and protocols that have been working for tons of people for years.

You also didn’t give a good write up on your planned cycle. If you looked through forums you’d see the general form of writing a planned cycle is more like:

Drug A - Xmg/wk
wks 1-10

Drug B - Xmg/ED
wks 1-4

PCT
Nolva Xmg/Xmg/Xmg/Xmg
Clomid Xmg/Xmg/Xmg/Xmg

This is just cause it makes it that much more simpler for others to understand and therefore do a better job at helping you. Also I’d really look into this protocol before preparing a cycle because this protocol isn’t as simple as it sounds and I see a lot of posts of trying the protocol in the wrong or not ideal manner. Good luck man.

Chizeled

I would avoid superdrol at all costs at your level of experience

you will almost certainly get gyno

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
I would avoid superdrol at all costs at your level of experience

you will almost certainly get gyno[/quote]

Just out of curiosity why do you say this? I loved Superdrol at 30mgs a day with my last low test 250 high Tren 750. Didn’t see anything close to gyno with zero AI as always

How can you get gyno from a steroid that doesnt convert to estrogen?

when i see your cycle makes me believe the i have to bump the dosage up. compared tp your dosage im not going to gain nothing with 30 mg/day of superdrol and 50 mg of test suspension a day.

maybe i lose my gains after cycle becouse i have very slow test recovery.
3 months after my first cycle i had my testosterone checked and it came out at 340 and than i did a second blood work 2 months later and it came out at 620. so it took me 5 months to fully recover. with the 2on/4off protocol if the natural testosterone doesnt shut down i should me fine.
in my opinion with me recovering so slow i have two choices
1- do 2on/4off or 2-do blast and cruise for an year.

[quote]gabriel84 wrote:
How can you get gyno from a steroid that doesnt convert to estrogen?[/quote]

Estrogen is not the only hormone that will cause gyno in a male. Look at tren and Deca they cause Gyno for some but because progestorone.

[quote]gabriel84 wrote:
maybe i lose my gains after cycle becouse i have very slow test recovery.
3 months after my first cycle i had my testosterone checked and it came out at 340 and than i did a second blood work 2 months later and it came out at 620. so it took me 5 months to fully recover. with the 2on/4off protocol if the natural testosterone doesnt shut down i should me fine.
in my opinion with me recovering so slow i have two choices
1- do 2on/4off or 2-do blast and cruise for an year.[/quote]

No that has nothing to do with it. Hell 340 is still technically not even shit down by most TRT doctor standards. If you lost every thing it is because your training and or diet suck.

[quote]Reed wrote:

[quote]gabriel84 wrote:
maybe i lose my gains after cycle becouse i have very slow test recovery.
3 months after my first cycle i had my testosterone checked and it came out at 340 and than i did a second blood work 2 months later and it came out at 620. so it took me 5 months to fully recover. with the 2on/4off protocol if the natural testosterone doesnt shut down i should me fine.
in my opinion with me recovering so slow i have two choices
1- do 2on/4off or 2-do blast and cruise for an year.[/quote]

No that has nothing to do with it. Hell 340 is still technically not even shit down by most TRT doctor standards. If you lost every thing it is because your training and or diet suck.[/quote]

Again I have nothing against the 2on/2off protocol but now you’re just making excuses to appeal to you man. If that’s seriously your case then you need to look into forming a better PCT. Whenever I run a 19 nor my PCT’s are a lot more extensive and I also run HCG alongside the cycle. Usually consist of Nolva, Clomid, & Proviron at extended duration along with natural supps and Test boosters.

If you want to try this protocol by all means do so. I just hear too many people that sound like they lack knowledge blaming there post cycle misery on other factors besides training and nutrition.Wish you best of luck.

Chizeled

[quote]gabriel84 wrote:
maybe i lose my gains after cycle becouse i have very slow test recovery.
3 months after my first cycle i had my testosterone checked and it came out at 340 and than i did a second blood work 2 months later and it came out at 620. so it took me 5 months to fully recover. with the 2on/4off protocol if the natural testosterone doesnt shut down i should me fine.
in my opinion with me recovering so slow i have two choices
1- do 2on/4off or 2-do blast and cruise for an year.[/quote]

You are an idiot.

If you lost 10lbs DURING PCT its fucking WATER.

[quote]gabriel84 wrote:
when i see your cycle makes me believe the i have to bump the dosage up. compared tp your dosage im not going to gain nothing with 30 mg/day of superdrol and 50 mg of test suspension a day.[/quote]

Lol i knew this would happen thats why i suggested pulsing.

[quote]Reed wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
I would avoid superdrol at all costs at your level of experience

you will almost certainly get gyno[/quote]

Just out of curiosity why do you say this? I loved Superdrol at 30mgs a day with my last low test 250 high Tren 750. Didn’t see anything close to gyno with zero AI as always[/quote]

superdrol’s ability to cause gyno remains undefined… it usually occurs in people who cycle (not those who stay on).

no one really knows why SD causes it… the onset is usually delayed for several months after the cycle is complete

progresteron causes gyno only in presence of estrogen, people that use high tren low test dont have gyno problems

i train same on and off cycle. the diet i dont complain, i try to eat clean alot of vegetables and alot of proteine since i get it for free from my work in form of protein bars.

[quote]gabriel84 wrote:
progresteron causes gyno only in presence of estrogen, people that use high tren low test dont have gyno problems[/quote]

You do realize a 200mg dose of Test is enough to raise Estro sides pretty significantly in some people. Then turn around and put 400-700mg of tren in your system you def have enough of situation to cause this. Also I know even when I ran low test and high tren I had a problem with lactation so obviously gyno in some is def still possible to cause it. I also know a pretty popular bodybuilder/powerlifter who has some horrible gyno issues due to running a Deca only cycle had no other issues even though it doesn’t aromatize as test does so maybe even natural estro levels are enough to cause it. Progestorone and Estro are about the only two real gyno inducing hormones I know of and if Super Drol does not raise Estro then it is obviously Prigestorone or a list a very small other hormones that have nothing to do with elevated Estro.

superdrol doesnt convert to estrogen, it doesnt activate progesterone receptors either .
Think what happens to the body when the level of androgens is to high?
It is going to produce alot of aromatase to convert it to estrogen
What happenes if no conversion is happening because superdrol is an dht derivative and your body is not producing testosterone?

Body produces more aromatase enzime
What happens after there is no conversion and estrogen levels fall way to low?
Body is going to produce even more aromatase enzime.
because superdrol being used as an “prohormon” people dont use Testosterone with it to keep estrogen levels from dropping low.

After the cycle what happens with all that aromataze enzime build up in the body? is going to convert the natural testosterone your body is producing to estrogen, making possible to increase the ration estrogen/androgen causing GYNO
So as a conclusion if superdrol is used for short time and is stacked with testosterone and estrogen levels stay normal the body doesnt need to produce so much aromatase and you shouldnt have gyno problems
This is my personal point of view.

Nothing wrong with what I’ve read so far with 2on/2off or 2on/4off

One of these reasons for running a cycle like this is to stay on most of the year…

but Doing it with superdrol is retarded because it is so liver toxic.

Most people use an oral (Dbol, anavar, t bol) with test prop and/or tren ace to do these short cycles with.

also maybe cycling on and off drugs just isn’t for you if it takes you 5 months to recover.