T Nation

One week Into TRT


#1

I'm one week into TRT and would like some input for more experienced folks on dosages. I first had me T tested 4 years ago prior to my wife and I trying to conceive. It was low 400's then. I had it tested a few weeks ago and it was down to 304. I started TRT last Thursday.

My urologist prescribed 200mg Test Cypo, 1mg adex, 50,000 units of vitamin D and 3000mcg b12 per week. I did my second injection this morning. Both injections i've taken the shot and the 1mg adex on the same day. Last week being my first week I don't have much to go on. But I had 3 really good days after the injection and by Monday (4 days after the injection) I felt a crash.

I was very irritable and emotional and negative. Oddly enough Tuesday and Wednesday were a bit better and I took the second injection and adex this morning. I'm doing it the same twice, primarily to see if the crash was my body adjusting to first shot. I've lurked for the last week on this site and i've learned a lot. At this time though, i'm unclear as to whether the crash I felt was from a drop in T from doing 200mg rather than 2 100mg injections or whether it was a result of to much adex or not enough adex.

Any insight or guidance would be greatly appreciated. Thanks


12 Months TRT Update
#2

Best bet is to get blood work midweek. Sounds likely an adex dosing issue.


#3

You need to read some of the stickies here:

  • advice for new guys — note 1st paragraph
    ---- and need more info about you!
  • things that damage your hormones
  • protocol for injections
  • finding a TRT doc

and:
https://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_trt/hormones_and_health

Starting with 200mg T per week is just stupid. Most docs are idiots when it comes to TRT and endo’s seem to be the worst.

Standard recommended protocol here:
50mg T injected twice a week [100/week]
0.5mg anastrozole at time of injections [1.0/week] - understand implications of anastrozole over-responder
250iu hCG SC EOD if you can get it

You can inject with #29 0.5ml [50iu] 1/2" insulin needles. These to not need an Rx in most jurisdictions. ~$14 per 100 at USA Walmart and Sam’s, ask for ReLion brand. Probably similar in Canada. You can also inject SC. This syringe is good for SC or IM injections.


#4

[quote]KountKoma wrote:
Best bet is to get blood work midweek. Sounds likely an adex dosing issue.[/quote]

I’m thinking the same thing. Next week i’m going to divide the t injections and adex doses into two 100mg/.5mg and see if that helps.


#5

[quote]KSman wrote:
You need to read some of the stickies here:

  • advice for new guys — note 1st paragraph
    ---- and need more info about you!
  • things that damage your hormones
  • protocol for injections
  • finding a TRT doc

and:
https://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_trt/hormones_and_health

Starting with 200mg T per week is just stupid. Most docs are idiots when it comes to TRT and endo’s seem to be the worst.

Standard recommended protocol here:
50mg T injected twice a week [100/week]
0.5mg anastrozole at time of injections [1.0/week] - understand implications of anastrozole over-responder
250iu hCG SC EOD if you can get it

You can inject with #29 0.5ml [50iu] 1/2" insulin needles. These to not need an Rx in most jurisdictions. ~$14 per 100 at USA Walmart and Sam’s, ask for ReLion brand. Probably similar in Canada. You can also inject SC. This syringe is good for SC or IM injections.[/quote]

After some reading it looks as though you have contributed tons excellent info to this site. I’m about half afraid to change the doctors dosage before my first blood test/follow up. I’m supposed to go back in Feb. But honestly, I know you stand a much better chance of being right than the Doc does. I just don’t want to change the dosage and get cut off for being non compliant. My family doc wouldn’t even put me on trt so I don’t want to press my luck. But after all that reading, what I have concluded is that 2 100mg shots per week and 2 .5 adex per week would be ideal with regards to keeping the peaks and valleys at a minimum while also complying with the prescribed dosages.

I plan on printing off the recommended protocol to take to my next appointment. If I can get my doc onboard all the better. My wife is an RN and does my injections at home so the frequency and dosage isn’t and issue.I didn’t get my initial e2 level. All they told me was that it was normal and so was everything else other than my T which was low.(I’m going to get a copy of my firs labs in the next couple of days, so I can add the relevant numbers to my post above)

Thanks for your input KSman. I did want to ask you what the best way to switch to the 100mg per week protocol if I were to do it. I injected 1ml of 200mg/ml yesterday. If I were to drop to 2 .5ml shots perweek should I wait the full 7 day and then inject the first .5ml? or is there some type of taper I need to do?


#6

You can change protocol at day 7, sooner if you feel crashed.

I still think that 200mg/week is very foolish.


#7

[quote]KSman wrote:
You can change protocol at day 7, sooner if you feel crashed.

I still think that 200mg/week is very foolish.[/quote]

Thanks KSman


#8

Are you taking any pregnenalone and DHEA?


#9

[quote]KSman wrote:
You can change protocol at day 7, sooner if you feel crashed.

I still think that 200mg/week is very foolish.[/quote]

I agree with 200mg/week being over kill. Your total T was higher than mine pre-trt. I inject 50mg/twice per week and my total T hovers around 1000. That being said, everyone is different, so as KSman has mentioned in the past, you could be a hyper metabolizer of T (lab work is needed to determine this, but seems unlikely).

If I had to theorize, your T levels with the single 200 mg injection went supra-physiological. Intra muscular T injections will reach a peak at around 3 days and then slowly taper down. My guess is you felt great when your T levels peaked and then as aromatization from T to E occurred, your E went up as your T fell, leaving you feeling shitty.

I would follow KSman’s instructions above. Can you get your hands on hCG? If not and if following KSman’s instructions doesn’t leave you feeling better, try my above idea of integrating pregnenolone and DHEA. DHEA is a neurosteroid among other things and improved my mood and cloudy vision. Pregnenolone is another steroid hormone that’s a precursor to other hormones, specifically cortisol and other neuroactive steroids; all related to mood.


#10

[quote]Davinci.v2 wrote:

[quote]KSman wrote:
You can change protocol at day 7, sooner if you feel crashed.

I still think that 200mg/week is very foolish.[/quote]

I agree with 200mg/week being over kill. Your total T was higher than mine pre-trt. I inject 50mg/twice per week and my total T hovers around 1000. That being said, everyone is different, so as KSman has mentioned in the past, you could be a hyper metabolizer of T (lab work is needed to determine this, but seems unlikely).

If I had to theorize, your T levels with the single 200 mg injection went supra-physiological. Intra muscular T injections will reach a peak at around 3 days and then slowly taper down. My guess is you felt great when your T levels peaked and then as aromatization from T to E occurred, your E went up as your T fell, leaving you feeling shitty.

I would follow KSman’s instructions above. Can you get your hands on hCG? If not and if following KSman’s instructions doesn’t leave you feeling better, try my above idea of integrating pregnenolone and DHEA. DHEA is a neurosteroid among other things and improved my mood and cloudy vision. Pregnenolone is another steroid hormone that’s a precursor to other hormones, specifically cortisol and other neuroactive steroids; all related to mood.[/quote]

I’m not sure my doc will prescribe HCG or not but I am interested in it. My wife and I are done having children but I am all for as little testicular atrophy as possible. I will ask him about it and see if hes open to it. I’m not currently taking pregnenolone and DHEA. Do you use the sublingual type? If so, it looks like a month supply would cost around $25, which is reasonable.

I’m on morning 4 of my second shot. Emotionally, i’m stable. But I feel a foggy when compared to yesterday. I’m sure i’ll crash before Thursday. I’m in much better shape than I was at day 4 last week but its clear to me that 7 days is much too far between shots. I’m going to try the 100mg/.5 adex twice per week (monday & friday) before I decrease the dosage. After reading so much from folks like you and KSman, I’m certain that you know what your talking about. There’s a good change i’ll wind up on the suggested protocol in the stickie. I don’t mind altering the frequency of the dosing but I don’t want to change the actual dosage until after my next appointment for sake of compliance.

Thanks for your reply and your input Davinci.v2. I appreciate it. I’ll keep you guys posted.