T Nation

One thing i cant find

Im a 1 year lurker, and will be known as a newbie by you guys.

So here is my question.

I am 27 192 lbs, 18%bf, i have been lifting for over 2 years. I cant seem to find out on my research if it is to soon to start a cycle. The cycle i had in mind is…

a 6 week cycle.
300 mg a week of testosterone
400 mg a week of trenbolone
im still working on a clomid dosage.

The gear was purchase over the border, so i am also skeptical on how reliable is.

Feel free to critic my cycle, im am trying to approach this with as much knowledge as i can.

First thing that i noticed is your BF is around 18%. (Assuming you want to use AAS for gaining muscle)
That seems a little high. I would first of all lean out before even thinking about a cycle.

John Beradi has done some articles on mass gain and whether or not it is best to gain from lean. He’s believes that gains will be higher in terms of LBM/fat ratio if you start out already lean.
Quote ‘To sum up, it’s better to cut before you bulk because if you’re already “bulky” you’ll gain more fat that you expected while trying to add mass.’

The link to a summary of JB’s diet theories: http://www.t-mag.com/articles/199ess2.html

You have already bought the gear?
IMO That would seem premature.

You would be best advised to get some other form of Anti-E besides clomid. Clomid is best used as a post-cycle recovery aid cause if you use it for your main anti-e then it won’t be as effective post-cycle when you are trying to restore you’re endogenous test production.

Arimidex would be better to use during your cycle, as you are intending to use test which will aromatise.

I will leave any other points to the vets to flame err… i mean critique. But i would think they will tell you to do alot more research first. Check out ‘Steroid Thread for Newbies’ in the forum.

bumb test to 500-750mg/week. the tren should be used ed. so at that dose, you are using 57.14mg/day, just use 50mg/day or 75mg/day. Are you planning to use the clomid throughout the cycle, or post cycle? If only post cycle, what are you using for an anti-estrogen? try arimidex at .5mg eod if not using clomid throughout.

Thank you for you info. Im still trying to gather all i can, I dont want to jump in anything feet first, especially when it comes to altering my bodies chemicals.

I bought the gear over the border because i was there and it would be awhile before i went back, and it seemed like a better idea than buying my limit in liquor.

I read the newbie thread, but it does not indicate and ideal bf%. What was you percentage when you started?

I am against the suggestions for arimidex.
Some estrogen is beneficial for growth, therefore nolvadex during @ 20mg/day would IMHO be better than arimidex. This should be more than enough anti-e for this cycle.

In addition, I don’t believe that someone should not use aas because they are a bit fat. What better way to get lean than concurrently adding muscle while losing fat???
Tren will help cut bf, and provided diet is good while on, buddy could probably go from 18 to 12% bf no problem!
I second the suggestion to up the test to 500mg/week.

What type of Test are you planning on taking? Regardless of the type you are going to need to bump up the dosage and also try to bump your tren up to 75mg/ml ED.

What are your goals for this cycle?

How tall are you?

Archaic - Nolvadex is not an end all anti-e its main purpose is the prevention and/or possibly regression (only if extremely mild and caught early) of gyno. The reasoning behind using arimidex is for suppressing the other side effects such as excessive bloating/water retention that come as a result of too much estrogen in the body. Especially at .5 EOD it should not substantially alter the gains one might experience if they were not using an anti-e. This all boils down to where the chemical binds, but I really don’t want to get into that right now.

By the way, nolvadex has recently become popular for pct, for those that cannot use clomid so my first statement can be challenged.

horse, i am 10’1". i shot up another inch!

tdog: for his cycle, at the dosages recommended by him, .5 of arimidex/day would be overkill IMHO. There should not be that much water retention, etc. with these dosages
20mg nolva would be plenty.

Drago1: Sweet! Is it the GH?

.5 EOD was recommended, and if he decides to do a worthwhile cycle of 750 mgs Enanthate/wk and 75 mgs tren ED then I would most certainly recommend adex. I have done similar cycles where I have broken out in acne because my estrogen levels were too high. It comes down to the individual but the amount of gains that will be sacrificed by the amont of adex recommended is negligible

although being safe and cautious is of utmost importance. i think we sometimes exagerate the use of anti-e’s.

we pretty much say that you cant do a test cycle today without adex, and nolva on hand. well what did they do back in the day before adex was around? i dont see thousands of 40-50 year old yolked men with gyno running around.

although their dosages were much lower, do you think arnold and frank zane even knew what an anti-e was?

im not saying you dont need anti-e’s, because you do. that would be completley short sighted on my part. but i do think that one can get by with clomid or nolva without adex. id just keep the more expensive adex on the side just in case.

At .5 EOD it is not much more expensive than clomid, if you have a good source


Sorry, I couldn’t resist:)

Hijack over, back to your regularly scheduled program.

Forgot one thing, the only reason that a chemical such as adex is recommended so often is because people hate side effects. I would be much happier going through a cycle with less acne, a less puffy face, etc. Yes you can get by with nolva or clomid, but why? Why not pay the extra few cents per dose and minimize whatever sides would otherwise happen

P-DOG, were you typing that with one hand while rubbing your own newly developed titties? hehe, jk.

If yall couldnt tell previously, my “still researching” status is fixing to hit the spotlight. That said, and with all the arim this, nolva that back and forth discussion…why not split the dosage accordingly and take some of each. I dont want to (and am not smart enough yet) to do the math so this is mainly a concept question.

Why not take both with appropriate dosages???

yes horse. every morning i shoot 4i.u’s oh GH directly into my forehead. i am hoping for 11’ by spring.

tdog: you don’t understand; estrogen is good for gains. And we all need estrogen as well; adex usage totally fucks up your blood lipid profile, and negates the upgrading of the androgen receptor which estrogen is responsible for. Not to mention estrogen increases glucose uptake by muscle.

adex is used too often for small cycles like this one. 20mg nolva would be plenty, and would allow for the estrogen benefits.


Have heard also that completely blocking eostrogen can hinder strength gains significantly.
As for whether or not to use adex I imagine it would depend on your sensitivity to eostrogen alot and the way your body reacted to that level of test. If you were really sensitive you’d seek to totally avoid any chance of aromatisation.

Why couldn’t you just reduce the amount of adex taken to say 0.25mg/EOD? And take some nolvadex if needed. That way you reduce the conversion of test to eostrogen but still get some and then be able to treat with nolvadex if unwanted sides appeared.