One Step Forward, Two Steps Back

Pharma / TRT Testosterone Replacement
21

[quote]okage wrote:
Good man, I always say that the best way to do something is mind, body and soul. Basically you gotta do your research, get the help, think about it positively, get advice from others going through the same shit, and do more research and more positive thinking. You know you can accomplish anything you set your mind to type shit!! Haha

On the other hand I dont have much experience other than the usual one step forward two steps back syndrome… except mines like the whole 3 steps forward 3 steps back… Im a fucking extremist like that. I love it and hate it I guess. Im working on it. I hope to one day be a 2 forward 1 back guy one day :wink:

Go Niners, good luck, I wish i could help more but I cant, but ill check in to hear about your progress and give as much support an motivation as I can !! cause that can only be good.

PS Go niners and SF giants, Baseballs starting eh.
[/quote]

Thanks for the support. And good luck with your progress too.

Yeah, go Giants. Glad to see Buster out there again. :slight_smile:

22

Just about a week into TRT and I gotta say, I’m feeling quite a bit better. Brain fog has cleared up a lot and my energy is coming back. Libido is not rockin’ but I know it’s there, which is good. I’m not 100%, but I can work with this.

I didn’t expect to feel the effects of the T this soon. Doc said it would take about 3 weeks. On his program that would be after 3 injections (one per week) and I just gave myself my third this morning (2x per week). Also, my T levels are probably elevated beyond the normal dosage since my first shot was the full 100mg. Still, I remember reading that guys on AAS with much higher dosages don’t usually feel the effects of T for about 3 weeks. I can’t imagine it’s just the supplements kicking in, but I guess it’s possible.

Anyone else feel the T kick in this quickly?

23

Midway through week 4 of TRT. Feeling pretty good. My energy levels are great. Sleep hasn’t been any better but I wake up feeling rested. When I feel tired now, it’s just a normal tired, not the overwhelming exhaustion I was experiencing before. It’s been great because I’m able to be much more productive now at home and work. Projects feel more like a challenge now, instead of a burden.

I’ve been back in the gym for a couple weeks now and feeling strong. I’ve still got to build my strength back up to where I was previously, but I’m not too far off - probably about a 5% loss in strength.

My muscles feel a little more full, which I’m guessing is fluid retention. BW is 172 now (up 7 lbs in about 3 weeks) and some of that is probably water too, although my BF is up to 16% now and my gut has gotten a little bigger. Not bad but I notice it. I’ve started cycling carbs and calories - high on workout days and lower on off days. I’m also trying to increase my water intake.

Libido is back to normal. Testicles are definitely smaller but it’s difficult to say how much. The brain fog completely cleared up during the second week but in the last few days it has come back a little. I’m wondering if that is due to the testicular atrophy causing lower pregnenolone levels. It hasn’t been bad though so I’ll just keep an eye on it for now.

I meet with the Dr again in about a week. I’m planning to ask about HCG to help with the testicular atrophy. We’ll see how that goes. I’ve had a vasectomy so I won’t be able to play the “I want to have kids” card.

24

I think I need to start looking for a new Dr.

First an update:
About 4 months into TRT now. Feeling pretty good, not great. Definitely feeling better than before TRT, but it seems like I peaked around 2 months in and now I’m on a slow backward slide. Dr. asked me to rate how I feel (1-10) - pre-TRT I would say 3, at my best after TRT would be 9, and now around 7.

Gains in the gym have been coming steadily but I don’t feel as good when I’m not able to workout for a couple days.

Dr added HCG about 2.5 months ago and it really helped with the testicular atrophy (which was quite uncomfortable). I switched to SC injections about 6 weeks ago and much prefer that to IM.

I’ve always had some back acne and after TRT it was slightly worse but about 3 weeks ago it really flared up. I mentioned it to the Dr and asked if it could be due to high E2. He insisted it was because of T and sent me to get some labs done.

Lab results from 5/31/12 @ 8:05am (48 hours after last injection)
Vit B-12: 957 pg/ml (211-911)
Homocystine: 7 umol/L (5.0-13.0)
Cortisol-AM: 13 ug/dL (8-23)
Test Total: 469.0 ng/dL (160-726)
SHBG: 29.5 nmol/L (13-71)
Free Test: 103 pg/ml (47-244)
% Free Test: 2.19% (1.5-3.2)
Bioavailable Test: 246 ng/dL (128-430)
Albumin: 4.4 g/dL (3.5-4.8)
Estradiol: 39 pg/mL (0-39.8)
Dihydrotestosterone, LC-MS/MS: 281.0 pg/mL (106.0-719.0)
Corticosteroid Binding Globulin: 2.8 mg/dL (2.3-3.9)
Magnesium, RBC: 5.4 mg/dL (4.2-6.8)
Zinc, RBC: 1244 ug/dL (782-1502)

Looks to me like my T is getting coverted to E2.

Met with the Dr yesterday. Told him how I was feeling and we discussed options to tweak my treatment. He offered some topical treatment for the acne (no thanks), said my Magnesium is still low so upped my dosage on that (fine), and wasn’t very concerned with my T or E2 levels. Apparently, it’s not an issue to him until E2 gets up around 50. When I asked about an AI he started searching on his computer then disappeared into his office for 5 minutes (uh-oh) . When he came back he suggested Zinc or Progesterone to block conversion to E2. I asked why not an AI and he said those are AI’s. He didn’t seem sure about the Zinc dosage and I wasn’t all that keen on trying Progesterone so I said I’d hold off for now.

Maybe Progesterone would work great, but it sounded like a more expensive route to go than Arimidex. One thing that’s beginning to bug me about this guy is that it seems like he’s always trying to sell me something. Some of his supplements are reasonably priced so I do buy them there, but I have to buy my T and HCG through him which costs double what I’d pay at a pharmacy. Financial issues aside, now I’m starting to wonder how many TRT patients he has worked with.

At the end he asked if there’s anything I’d like to change. I said I would like to see my E2 levels lower and T levels higher and reemphasized that I’m not feeling as good as I did before. I told him I thought an AI would do that. His response was that an AI wouldn’t raise T levels.

He suggested raising my T dosage to 150mg/week and checking labs again in 3 months with the disclaimer that my acne might get worse and my E2 might go up. Ugh! I’m losing faith that he knows what he’s doing. And it would be a lot cheaper for me to educate my GP than him.

So, it looks like I have a few options:

  1. Go with his treatment plan and hope that increased dosage makes me feel like I did a couple months ago.
  2. Get some Anastrozole and see if I can dial in my E2 and T on my own.
  3. Look for a new Dr. (preferably someone that will give me a Rx I can fill at a pharmacy)

What do you guys think?

25

Just realized that I didn’t include symptoms in the last post. Like I said, I feel OK but not as good as before. Libido has gone down lately and I’ve been pretty moody at times. My wife actually accused me of PMSing last week. I notice I’m more tired lately. Also, my shoulders and forearms started aching recently.

On a positive note, I’ve been sleeping better lately. Then again, I don’t think I should feel more tired now when I’m sleeping 7-8 hours straight than before when I was only getting 6-7 hours of broken sleep.

Couple questions:
Anyone have an idea of what kind of increase in TT I might see by just adding an AI (if any)?

If I was going to up my T dosage and/or ad an AI, would it make sense to just change one variable at a time and if so which one first? Or is it better to do both and tweak as needed?

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

26

You won’t see any increase in TT from the AI, sorry. All your T is exogenous, so adding another compound will not raise it.

BUT you will see an improvement in your Free/Bioavailable T which is what counts.

Plus your estrogen will be lower–that is a good thing in your case.

Get a doctor that will treat you properly–you know this guy is not in your best interests, so why keep going to him?

27

Thanks for the reply VTBalla. I really appreciate your contributions to this forum.

Yeah, I’m going to look for a new Doc. The whole reason I was going to him was because I thought he knew how to administer TRT (found him on LEF.org). Now I’m not sure if he just doesn’t know what he’s doing or if he’s trying to steer me into other treatments he can sell me. I wish our health insurance system wasn’t so F’d up so guys like him didn’t feel like they have to upsell you all kinds of extra crap just to make money.

Anyone know any good Docs around San Jose, CA?

In the meantime, I think I need to get my E2 under control so I’m going to give arimidex a try. Today my shoulders were killing me just trying to hold the bar for some light warm-up backsquats. It was like a stabbing pain in both shoulders so bad that I had to rerack after 1. It got better after a bit but I’ve never experienced that before. Plus, I just didn’t feel very strong today.