One All Out Set and No More

Instead of 5x5, or 4x8, and moving the weight up week by week for all the sets.

I see some people for assistance, like Matt Kroc, and other Elitefts guys, do a couple of light sets, and then 1 all out sets.

Just like they are working upto a Max Effort exercise, what do people think of this?

I like the idea, as you can beat a PR every week, and know you’re just going balls to the walls for 1 set.

Also didn’t Dorian Yates do something like this?

Strength-wise, the Westside method of working up to a max set is great. HIT (Mentzer, Dorian) isn’t that good.

Size-wise, Trevor Smith’s BFT is great.

As well as working upto a max set for bench press, deadlift ect. I also mean DB Rows, barbell shrugs…

Just setting yourself a PR in most lifts.

I tried it a while ago with my supplemental pressing as well as with kroc rows, just like everything else it works for a few weeks but then I think its better to do straight sets for a while, and I wouldn’t try it with more than a few exercises a week.

I do this for my first exercise three times a week and it seems to work pretty well. iver been doing it for about three weeks now and i feel stronger on all my lifts.

I tried it a while ago with my supplemental pressing as well as with kroc rows, just like everything else it works for a few weeks but then I think its better to do straight sets for a while, and I wouldn’t try it with more than a few exercises a week.

Warm up and then 2-3 all out sets is better, with progressive increases every week for 8-12 weeks. Ed Coan the greatest powerlifter ever trains like this and the results speak for themselves. Just change things up after the 8-12 weeks.

George

[quote]tomrowe wrote:
Instead of 5x5, or 4x8, and moving the weight up week by week for all the sets.

I see some people for assistance, like Matt Kroc, and other Elitefts guys, do a couple of light sets, and then 1 all out sets.

Just like they are working upto a Max Effort exercise, what do people think of this?

I like the idea, as you can beat a PR every week, and know you’re just going balls to the walls for 1 set.

Also didn’t Dorian Yates do something like this?[/quote]

This is not comparable to ME work as yes you work up to a pb, but you do work at lower % to get there, ie your’ll do work at 80% and then 3 singles of 90% or more per session. One will hopefully be a pb, but not always. The most imortant aspect is not getting a pb, but getting work in @ 90%

As for Dorian he did do one max set but if you see his ‘warm up’ he works pretty hard to get there. It’s more akin to doing some moderate work followed by one set to faliure.

Still try what you have planned and see how it goes. However you won’t beat a PR every week.

[quote]powerhouse reno wrote:
Warm up and then 2-3 all out sets is better, with progressive increases every week for 8-12 weeks. Ed Coan the greatest powerlifter ever trains like this and the results speak for themselves. Just change things up after the 8-12 weeks.

George[/quote]

Did Ed Coan not do his deadlift training in a manner that resembles his own Deadlift Training Program? As that rarely prescribes any all out sets.

Depends what your trying to accomplish with this.

If your trying to increase your max in something like deadlifts, and you do a max set of 8 and nothing else for legs or back, then your likely not gonna get stronger.

You’ll need some form of assistance and RE work to continue progressing, but this method may be good to break through a plateu.

Say your normally can deadlift 300 for 5x5 but cant complet your last set of five.

Warm-up, load on 300 and do one set of as many as you can, and then walk away. Doing this for a couple of weeks you might be able to raise what was about your 7rm to your 12rm, and then the 5x5 might be easy.

Just a thought.

Also, if your gonna do it you might want to do it kinda like CT’s cluster method.

[quote]undeadlift wrote:
Strength-wise, the Westside method of working up to a max set is great. HIT (Mentzer, Dorian) isn’t that good.

Size-wise, Trevor Smith’s BFT is great.[/quote]

I STRONGLY disagree with this statement.

Some of the best strength gains I have seen have been on failure training. I made great strength gains with a Yates-style program and even greater gains with DC.

If you dont get stronger from failure training, IMO, you are just too inexperienced to know when you are actually pushing your body to the extreme limit. Its not the fault of the training, its the trainee.

As a practical matter, I see strong lifters train with a zillion warm-ups leading up to one or two nut-busting sets- may be three at most. That’s not to say it’s always singles. For example, let’s say you are 500 lb bencher. The plan for the day is shirted close grip 5’s off of 2 boards. Then your workout might look like this;

Some raw warm ups (eg. bar, 135, 225)
Shirted 2- boards- 315 x1,405 x1, 445 x5, and then 465 or 475 x5 if the gods are smiling upon you.

The warm ups should not be anythign like work. Conserve your energy.

The fact of the matter is that heavy weight make you strong. But heavy weights whip your ass. You have narrow window of ability in the trainign session to get it down.

Now, that’s now not to say the same lifter couldn’t do a workout where he does a lot more volume at lighter weights. I think those types of workout are great- especailly when you don’t have meet coming up, you don’t have your usual traingin partners, you don’t feel the mojo, whatever. These workouts are great for those situations. However, repping 315 for sets for a 5 sets of 5 is not necessarily how you get a 405 bench. At soem point you ned to handle soem real weight.

Ed Coan’s deadlift work out looks like this. This is from his book “The Man, the Myth, the Mythod”

Week 1- 78%x5, week 2-80%x5, week 3- 82%x5, week 4- 84%x5, week 5- 85.5%x5, week 6- 88%x3, week 7- 89.5%x3, week 8- 86.5%x3, 90.5%x3, week 9- 88.8%x3, 91.5%x2, week 10- 91%x3, 92.5%x2, week 11- 93.3%x3, week 12-95.5%x2, week 13- 97.5%x2, week 14 off, week 15 meet or new max.

Ed used this to deadlift 901@220, the biggest deadlift in history for a man under 300lbs.

You warm up and then do 1 or 2 top sets.

George

[quote]powerhouse reno wrote:

Ed used this to deadlift 901@220, the biggest deadlift in history for a man under 300lbs.

[/quote]

It’s the best pull for a 220. But I think there have been a couple 900+ pulls form sub-300 lifters- Kondstantinovs comes to mind. Danny Wohelber was a 275 too I think.

If you check powerliftinig watch and their all-time powerlifting records section there is only one man other then Ed to deadlift 900, and that is Dan Wohleber, he did 904@275. Which still makes Ed Coan 901@220 the greatest deadlift ever done under 300lbs.

All of the other 11 men are 308’s or SHW. There are only 13 men in the history of powerlifting to ever dead 900 or more. Ed Coan is the lightest.

George

I have trained like this for the last 3 years, I have so many good things to say about training this way I could fill up this page just giving reasons why to lift like this.

[quote]powerhouse reno wrote:
Ed Coan’s deadlift work out looks like this. This is from his book “The Man, the Myth, the Mythod”

Week 1- 78%x5, week 2-80%x5, week 3- 82%x5, week 4- 84%x5, week 5- 85.5%x5, week 6- 88%x3, week 7- 89.5%x3, week 8- 86.5%x3, 90.5%x3, week 9- 88.8%x3, 91.5%x2, week 10- 91%x3, 92.5%x2, week 11- 93.3%x3, week 12-95.5%x2, week 13- 97.5%x2, week 14 off, week 15 meet or new max.

Ed used this to deadlift 901@220, the biggest deadlift in history for a man under 300lbs.

You warm up and then do 1 or 2 top sets.

George [/quote]

link?

(www.powerliftingwatch.com/records)

Look under 900 lbs. deadlifts.

Konstantinov’s has pulled over 900 but at over 300 lbs. His best at 275 is 881 I believe.

George

[quote]powerhouse reno wrote:
If you check powerliftinig watch and their all-time powerlifting records section there is only one man other then Ed to deadlift 900, and that is Dan Wohleber, he did 904@275. Which still makes Ed Coan 901@220 the greatest deadlift ever done under 300lbs.

All of the other 11 men are 308’s or SHW. There are only 13 men in the history of powerlifting to ever dead 900 or more. Ed Coan is the lightest.

George [/quote]

Konstantinovs pulled 430kg/948lb at 125kg/275lb. So Ed’s isn’t the biggest deadlift under 300lbs.

I stand corrected, Konstantinov did pull 948 at 275. But, my point was that using a 1 or 2 top set method of training has alot of merit. Mainly, because you’re not likely to over train, and over training to the powerlifter is bad news.

More is not better to us powerlifters, sometimes alot less is better. But, each person has to figure out what works for them. I have combined things from Ed Coan, Jesse Kellum, Chad Aichs and many others over the years.

I have also learned some great things from guys like Ryan Kennelly and Steve Wong. I am blessed to call these guys my friends, and they all are great lifters, but not one of them trains the same way.

George