T Nation

Once a Wk Injections - Effective?


#1

What’s up guys.
I’m sure I’m going catch some flack for this but I’m injecting 300mg once a week (27 year old male) and actually feel pretty good! I’ve read about burning out test receptors and how TRT can be ineffective after that point…is this true? It’s been 6 weeks and I’m getting lab results in a few days and will share results to see how effective once a week injections are working. Can they be effective?

Also, my doc asked if I had any DIM and that it helps control E2…?? I will NEVER use arimidex again! I used it a few months ago and felt like absolute garbage!


#2

I responded badly to anastrozole as well, but aromasin is another story, I cut aromasin into 10 smaller pieces and took my first dose 3 days ago, since then energy is improved and killing it in the gym.

Dr Crisler has seen men using high dose of testosterone who come down to high normal and do poorly and its thought that the receptors got used to the higher levels. Often health reasons are the reason for needing to reduce dosing as some men can’t handle high levels for long periods of time that’s probably do to HCT levels rising to unhealthy levels.

DIM doesn’t lower estrogen, it can help metabolize estrogen more efficiently.


#3

@systemlord oh ok thanks. Your knowledge is greatly appreciated! I’ll look into aromasin. How’s your libido if you don’t mind me asking.

Can’t wait to get these lab results to confirm. Based on how I feel on 300mg a week, I think my T levels are pretty good but I’m experiencing some ED so I’m thinking my E2 may be a little high. I may even drop the dose to 220 or 230 mg Would DIM help if that was the case?


#4

It is usually best to control e2 by lowering dose especially if labs show high free t.

Ai should be avoided if possible.

You will see some immediate improvements but others take months.


#5

@charlie12 definitely will avoid an AI. So if my free T is high I should lower my dose?? Why is that? Don’t I want high free T.

I thought lowering the dose was only if E2 was high


#6

Am talking if free t is above range.
Basically is free t is normal high or a bit over that’s ok as long as you feel good and HCT and RBC are good.

If e2 is high and free t is high you can lower dose to lower e2. If e2 high and free t is low normal well then you may need ai or try supps.

E2 may initially go up and stabilize after a couple of months.


#7

The 3rd weeks on any new protocol is the worst for erections and libido, estrogen control for me is proving to be a challenge do to my BF percentage. It’s the reason why I switched to daily dosing to try to minimize E2 symptoms.


#8

I’ve always been curious about this actually. I always thought it along the lines of “if he felt great on 400mg/wk, stayed on that dose for a year and then dropped down to 150mg/wk, he’d feel worse as he just feels better on 409mg weekly and got used to the superhuman feeling one gets on supraphysiologic levels of testosterone”, however I wonder if the androgen receptors can become desensitized and/or used to higher doses so that lower doses no longer have the same effect. I’ve never heard of it happening, but then again due to an absence of medical literature on the subject we won’t ever know. I’d estimate however that after a certain period of time off the higher doses things would revert back to normal

Also be careful with aromasin, if you crash you’re estrogen on that stuff it’s going to stay low for a while given the fact it’s a suicidal AI. Watch lipids to make sure everything’s alright.

Do you go to gym or employ frequent cardiovascular exercise, how’s you’re diet? 30 percent BF is going to put strain on you’re body. I’d cut down to 15% if I was in you’re situation.


#9

I just got back from the gym, bench pressed for 45 minutes and treadmill for 30 minutes. I go 5 days a week. My dosage for aromasin is 1/10 of a tablet, it’s hard to tell what are side effects of the medicine and what’s actually low E2.

I hope pharma creates an AI that is far gentler than what’s available, these AI sole purpose is to drive estrogen to zero.


#10

Shouldnt I gain muscle mass/fullness a lot quicker now that I’m on TRT? Especially 300mg a week (yes I’m doing the obvious; working hard in the gym and eating)

It’s been about 7 weeks and I still feel small. Should I give the T more time to build in my system?


#11

Physical changes takes longer and I’m speaking of real tissue growth not water retention generally around 12 weeks.


#12

@mike12 really?! Aww ok. I was on TRT for 18 months, came off for about 5 weeks, now have been back on for about 7 weeks now so I thought there would be some muscle memory there or something! Lol. Especially considering I lost 10 lbs of mass in 2 weeks after coming off for that while


#13

You can’t lose 10lbs of muscle tissue in 2 weeks - the kidneys could not clear way that much protein that fast, I would say the majority of that 10lbs was water weight. Keep in mind the higher your T dose the more water retention you will have due to higher e2. Diet has a more important role and weight training - if you can’t give your body a reason to put on that muscle (lifting weight you can’t lift) than regardless of how much T you use the body will deem it unnecessary to create new muscle tissue if you can already lift the weight you’re lifting. Common knowledge but sometimes it’s the simple stuff that escape us.


#14

Ok guys I got a cliff notes version of my blood work today from a receptionist. She wouldn’t tell me everything because she felt the doc should. Anyway, results are:

TT:777
E2:56
FREE T: ?
VITAMIN D3: 46
SHBG: 3.5

I know with my SHBG being that crazy low I should inject more frequently but I’m feeling pretty damn good! I’m at 300mg a week right now because my TT was 317 and E2 was 22 when I first started 8 weeks ago. So in 7 weeks, my T went up over 400 ng/dl!!! (27 year old)

I won’t know my Free T for another couple days and I guess my E2 is a little high but should I lower my dose? I don’t want an AI so I think lowering my dose would be best


#15

At 300mg T and that low SHBG your T level is only 700?? Something doesn’t add up… at 250mg T my levels were close to 2,000 ng/dl

There’s an unofficial multiple to estimating what your total T should be depending on your weekly dosage that’s a 7x at 250mg/week my levels were 1,830 ng/dl if you use the 7x multiple its 1,750 good estimate. Usual 100mg TRT dose at 100mg puts guys in the 7-800 range (100x7). You’re dose of 300mg should put your total T in the 2,000s


#16

it’s different on an individual to individual basis based on the elminiation and metabolisation rate of testosterone, 100mg only gets me up to 500, IF that.


#17

Oh ok I was about to freak out lol. The labs were drawn 7 days after my last injection too not sure if that mattees too much. Maybe 777 is a trough?? Also since I started at 317 and 7 weeks later I’m at 777, that’s got to be a good thing! Should I lower my dose? Considering my E2 is 56

What determines elimination and metabolization rate of test?


#18

Half life of test E/C is 7-8 days (roughly, once again differs from person to person), so what 777ng/dl is the nadir, peak is probably around 2x that, you’re free testosterone is probably through the roof, however with an E2 of 56, do you FEEL bad, do you FEEL symptoms of high estrogen, if not, and no other health issues are arising then it isn’t a big deal.

What determines the elimination and metabolisation rate of test?

Liver function, genetics.


#19

Yup it’s an estimate on a healthy individual with no metabolism issues. 777 as a trough is good then means you’re probably in the 2000s as peak - def not good for long term TRT it can cause health issues but for 10-15week cycle for muscle gain it’s fine. Ideally you’ll want your peak to be 7-800 for long term TRT that’s again given you’re a healthy individual with average SHBG and free levels. Most ppl feel good around there.


#20

If the half life is 7 days (roughly), then his peak would be around 1400-1500.