T Nation

On TRT, Doc Won't Help Me Manage Est Levels - ( Treatment Log )


#1

I'll preface this with, my T levels are great. I'm on a dosage that I feel works for me and I feel better than I have in a long time. Sadly, my estradiol levels are high, they're generally 40 - 60... Which, the lab ranges say are Normal but I still feel like crap and know from reading here they should be around 15.

First of all I've been working to bring my weight down as I'm carrying about 60 extra pounds but I've been having a real hard time with losing the fat due to the thyroid issues. I say this because I track everything and keep my calories < 2000, carbs < 100, and exercise daily (TaeKwonDo, Yoga, Walks, etc). I give myself 1 cheat meal every other week, but, those are generally nothing too big since I'm allergic to gluten and lactose. Kinda hard to get too wild on meat, fruit, & veggies hehe.

I believe that if my E levels were lower I'd have an easier time. Since I've exhausted my options for doctors in the area and none of them will prescribe an AI, does anybody have suggestions on natural ways to bring this down?

[edit: updated the thread title]


#2

That is ridiculous… what kinda monsters would not prescribe an AI for somebody with high E2? What area are you in? If possible, try expanding your search for doctors in a bigger area. I recommend ZocDoc.com to see if there are any doctors in your area that you may have missed. Maybe you aren’t asking them with enough confidence? At this point I’d be TELLING them to write the script or they’re fired.


#3

Small town middle of nowhere, thanks for the link. I’ll check that out too.

I hold no ill-will against these guys. Honestly, I’m surprised I’ve gotten as far as I have with them. They were pretty set on following Endocrine Society Guide Lines and lab approved ranges. The stuff I’ve printed off from here has helped, but, they all have seen AI’s as something to be prescribed in cases of breast-cancer management. Which, is what they know and have experience with.


#4

Do they even know why AI’s help with breast cancer? They lower aromatase thereby lowering E2.

See if you can get the docs to read up on it:
I used this search: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=arimidex+use+for+estradiol+reduction+men&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C44



http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022534701690992


#5

Thanks, I’ll print that off as well. Can’t hurt at this point.


#6

There are 7 stickies in this forum. But not tagged with icons :frowning:

Start with:
advice for new guys
things that damage your hormones
finding a TRT doc

Google research chemical anastrozole


#7

Thank you Sirs, much appreciated. I have another appointment with the doc tomorrow, I’ve got a nice load of information I’ve printed and read up on I’m going to bring into him.

[edit] Removed some irrelevant information


#8

Things went well, Thanks guys, thank you so much!

Doc agreed to try out the recommended regimen provided in “TRT: Protocol for Injections” thread. I go back in 3 weeks for blood work with the option to change if I’m feeling like junk before then.

Question, with the anastrozole I’m splitting the pills down to .25mg but, I’m starting at a 50 E2 already. Should I be talking to the Doc about an extra 1mg pill this week to bring things down and then start on maintenance?

Also, hCG is flipping expensive, almost $300.00! Any suggestions for online options that are legit for the U.S. that other folks could recommend?

[Edit: Found some; locally actually. Got robbed this time, but not next time at least!]


#9

Why the hCG? I wouldn’t take it unless you find you need it. If you’ve been perfectly fine on TRT without it I wouldn’t add it. I think I read that it also raises your E2 lvls, the portion added can’t be removed with an AI.

As far as the dosage of AI to take? I’d take the recommended dose and see how it affects your E2 lvls when the tests come back. Adjust from there. You do NOT want to overdo it and crash your E2 too low. Always the chance you’re an over-responder.


#10

The hCG was because, much to my surprise, I wasn’t actually at an optimum Testosterone level and my wife and I don’t have any plans to have
any more kids… but if one were to come we wouldn’t be saddened. Granted, as far as my perceptions of my testosterone levels I’m not sure I’ve ever been at a good level. It’s very likely I don’t have a good personal reference point to judge what good feels like.

That being said, I’m also not sure that the Doc who originally put me on TRT needed to do so. My Vitamin D was completely in the tank at that point. I would like to see if I could restart natural production and ween myself off of Testosterone eventually.

All in all, I wanted to set myself at a good baseline using a method others have found works and tweak from there. In the end this could be a mixed blessing since I am getting to the age where I’m hitting decline… I’ll have to see what the bloodwork says in 3 weeks, we’re going to run the whole gamut.

Lastly, and this is probably more to clear my conscience. :slight_smile: I would like to state that my perceptions of my Doctor were a result of miscommunication on both of our parts. He told me that he has done something like this before, it’s just not something he does on a regular basis as it isn’t generally needed and in the end he does worry about people using things like AI’s for anabolics. I can understand that, he needs to watch his ass and he has good intentions towards peoples health. When presented with facts and a solid plan with agreed follow-ups he was very flexible.

[Edit: Added more explanation and part about Doc]

[Edit2: Found the HCG at Costco a couple towns over for $97.00. It’s a drive, but, worth the extra $184.00 compared to what I’m paying now. T is also $20.00 cheaper there as well. One trip more than pays for the gas and time!]


#11

Just wanted to give a quick update in case this thread finds itself being read by another in a close proximity to my experience.

I’m now at a slightly modified version of the protocol listed here. I do .5mg AI daily, 50mg Test (Mon/Wed/Fri), and 250IU HCG (Tue/Thur) 125IU (Sat/Sun). This is alot of injections but after 2 months my “insert symptom of low T here” are better and I’m extremely stable. My overall testosterone levels are actually a bit on the low-side for my age but my free T is smack dab in the middle. Not sure what E2 is exactly at lately (next lab is in Sept), but, I believe it’s pretty decent as I don’t have any of the symptoms I had before I started the AI.

I’m still a heavy guy (6’0", 304) but the weight is going down nicely. I’ve seen a 26 pound drop since I started this protocol. The first small weight drop was seen after starting the AI and the second larger weight drop happened after I started HCG. Before doing this I couldn’t lose weight for the life of me, even while on pure T therapy (150mg/week only).

Some things I’ve learned: I believe I produce entirely too much Estrogen as my E2 levels refused to drop until I started taking .5 a pill a day. I believe this is due to my overall fat levels.

HCG starts losing its potency around 45 days for me and after it hit the expiration date of 60 days it’s bad enough for me that I needed to order a new script (should be getting that today or tomorrow). Also, now that the HCG has lost its potency my weight has gone back up again over the last 2 weeks. I’ve seen a 9lb increase. I’ve also seen side-affects relating to concentration and mood as well as degraded “manly” performance.

As far as having HCG left that is expired; I’ve read that you can reconstitute and freeze your HCG in pre-filled syringes (leave an airgap for expansion) and it should come out unharmed after thawing. I’ll be testing this with the new prescription and letting folks know what I find here in a couple weeks.

Hope this update can help others. It’s been a helluva thing, but, I feel better than I ever have and feel like I have less roadblocks to work towards a healthier me.


#12

Many get 80 days from 10K hCG vials. Must use BA water, not sterile or saline.

Weight: This can be from thyroid issues. Please look at the thyroid basics sticky and first paragraph of advice for new guys sticky.


#13

Thanks, I’m not sure what’s up then as I’m at day 62 from reconstitution. I don’t have any money budgeted for labs until September so I’m hoping the new script will do the trick.

As a side-note, I transferred my HCG Rx to Costco banking on the $97.00 price they quoted me. When they tried to order it in they were told that they could not get that med anymore. They were kind enough to quote me the brand-name price of Pregnyl which was $2700.00… No.thank.you.

I’m going to need to cough up the $280 again from my original pharmacy, but, I’m seriously considering online options at this point as they are immensely cheaper!

Anybody have suggestions?