T Nation

On TRT and have Questions about AI


#1

Hello,

New to the forums, But I had some questions I wanted to get out there maybe a few can help. About 2 months my doc had me do labs for my testosterone. They came up with the following..

T serum = 232 Range = 249 - 836 (labcorp is raising range to 350-1100 or something next month)

He put me on Cypionate 100mg once a week. Now for the most part I don't feel a whole hell of a lot differant, I've noticed hair popping out in places I never had before and I have noticed to a certain degree being able to push myself further on the cardio machines. A few years back I had a bad motocross accident where I broke my back, neck and leg. I had to have alot of surgeries which left me in bed or in a chair for about a year, then i had a nasty pain killer addiction which i am proud to say I kicked. But it left me about 50 pounds heavier when all was said and done. Now I am trying to reverse all that which led me to asking the doc about testosterone as I was feeling weak and tired quite a bit. Anyway, a few weeks ago (probably 5 weeks into the T injections) I started noticing that I was carrying alot of water weight and I was getting odd hot flashes occasionally. I started reading all over and I figured my e2 was probably elevated. I decided to order my own estrogen test but like a moron i picked the estrogens total test instead of e2 specific. Well the results came back like so..

Estrogens, Total 193 Range = Adult Male 40-115

Now even though I did not get the right test this led me to believe my E2 was high. So I asked my doc about this and presented him with the test and he said its no big deal. He said a lot of people that take T has high E2. Not to worry about it. My thought is that I probably had elevated estrogen to begin with and taking the T just cranked it up even more.

So I decided to get a second opinion from another doc. I ended up at one of those T replacment clinics, which was not bad but they do not let me self inject. Anyway they ran the e2 test and the doc called me and said my E2 was 71. She put me on Arimidex x .5mg 2 a week. I took my first pill about 3 days ago and take my second one tomorrow. At the sametime I noticed just recently a nasty little side affect, i think my prostate is enlarging. I am all of a sudden having difficulty urinating.

Now here are my questions... First I started reading on the Arimidex and now im kinda scared taking it, are the side affect hyped?

How long does it take for the Arimdex to drop E levels?

I have read on some sites that Estrogen might be the cause of my enlarged prostate, so i would imagine the Adex would help?

I am starting to think maybe I should of lost weight and gained muscle first, instead of jumping on T, is to late to stop the T (i am 10 weeks in), If so what are the side affect im gonna deal with?

If I decide to stop, can I do HCG for a while and will that help the crash if it happens? (again not sure if 10 weeks is enough for me to crash).

All that said I am starting to lose weight, I was 229 on 9/19, 224 on 10/3, 221 on 10/10, and 218 on 10/14. I havent weighed in yet for this week. I have been doing pretty hard cardio 3 times a week, and eating very healthy so I guess my biggest question is maybe i should stop the t and see where I stand when i lose my fat gut. What do you guys think? Thanks in advance and sorry for the wall of text.


#2

A couple of quick thoughts.

  • High E2 will negate the positive effects of Test so get it down between 20-25 and you will likely feel better
  • My prostate always swells and I retain fluid=weight (and BP) when my E2 is over 30

It will take a while to get your E2 down and with only 1mg Arimidex but it will drop. 100mg once a week will cause an E2 spike so it would be best if you can inject twice a week. Mine got up to 110, was having trouble urinating, BP was 155/88 (normally 120/70), and when I took a diuretic I lost 6lbs in 2 days and my BP is now back to normal.


#3

Thanks for the input Pushinit

What are thoughts on stopping the trt? One thing that bugs me is I have no idea if I am primary or secondary. He ran a test and gave me T, it wasnt till i starting reading on here an other forums about what some of this means.

I guess I am scared to death of the AI, mainly cause of what a few have said about aches pains joints etc. Im 30 and have a ton of metal and screws in me, so aches and pains i am used to. That started my pain killer problems. I am glad i kicked em, I just want to go in the right direction. I know I am probably over thinking the AI.. But if I decide to stop the TRT how would you and others go about doing it? And do i need to worry being on TRT for only 2 months? maybe 10 injections max?


#4

I wouldn't stop it completely yet. I was faced with the same dilemma. I also wasn't on HCG yet so I knew my testicles weren't producing like they used to a couple months ago. I also knew I liked the positive results when trt was working so I got on AI and stopped taking my test for a week. So this means 2 weeks passed before I took another shot but I kept taking AI (Anastrozole). Before starting again, I got a E2 only blood test and it showed it had dropped from 110 to 12, actually too low. I felt much better again so I started back up with my shots.

My last E2 test showed 30 so I increased my dose a little but I am learning how my body feels and it has helped me regulate this. I now do 80mg twice a week, hCG on different days twice a week, and my AI is taken every other day. Works well for me. I started this whole process only 3.5 months ago so not very long and I feel very good every day.

As for the concern about joint pain, get the AI down to where to should be (not too low) and keep it there. Wait until you have a problem. Keep in mind that hCG only can also cause big jumps in E2 so that won't necessarily remove the AI requirement.


#5

What? You're only 30? Get the right tests, and find out what's wrong. You've got another thirty years before you should be doing HRT.

It's not like you're going to die tomorrow. Spend the next couple of months educating yourself, then find a real doctor, and educate him/her.


#6

Yep 30, Regarding the right tests, they would be totally skewed right now being that I am on TRT. That why I am asking what should I expect right now if i go off, being 10 weeks into shots?


#7

That is way too broad of a statement. There are guys in their teens and 20s who are on it for good medical reasons. There are plenty (maybe most?) who are under 60, if he waited another 30 years.

Of course,if he has other medical reasons for low test then TRT may not be best for him. However, we don't have enough info to even suggest that he shouldn't be on TRT. If we assume his doctor diagnosed him correctly then the real question is what is the best approach so he can get maximum benefits.

OP - you haven't been on TRT very long and everyone's body adjusts at different rates. After 2 months, my testicles seemed about the normal size but my scrotum was drawing tight more often. I am not sure how much my natural test had reduced in that time. Some studies say it happens very quickly unless also on hCG. So your biggest risk of stopping is likely withdrawal do to very low test until your testicles start kicking back in. Very low test could be difficult to live with.

I still think you are over thinking this at the moment and expecting problems you may never experience. Keep in mind that few people go to forums if they are always feeling great. The ones who usually seek these out have issues they are working through and if that is all you can read then you would tend to believe that everyone has lots of issues. Once I made it past my adjustment period I have been feeling great and getting all of the results I hoped for.


#8

Or that he should! Selling T is what a T replacement clinic does. Do you trust their judgement for the rest of your life? TRT is forever, and at thirty that is still a long time.

Something is wrong. Find out what it is, then treat it. Laying off for a while, or possibly taking Arimidex only at a reasonable dose, then getting free T and E2 checked again might not be a bad idea.


#9

For now I am gonna stick on it, I go to see the doc on Wednesday to discuss my options. One concern I have though is that my prostate has ballooned up. I know there is meds for that but those also carry side effects and I know that the TRT in one way or another is the cause for this, as I have never ever had any prostate issues until i started on TRT. I have read that my estrogen levels being as high as they are @ 71 could be the cause of this. Which leads me to another question, if taking 100mg a week causes my estrogen to spike to 71 or higher am I going to have to be on an AI for the rest of my life while taking TRT? When I lose some of my belly fat will the need for an AI diminish? Again I am not a fan of AI's but my family has a history of arthritis and I have had alot of broken bones so I dont want to end up a cripple, although I do know the side affects of low T could very well have bad consequences also.

So for anyone that had prostate issues? what was the fix for you? lower the T dosage? Controlling E2? prostate meds? I will get my labs done next week and post them on here. And thanks for you guys feedback thus far.


#10

This...AI's only become a problem when they lower E2 too low. The pains and other side effects are not a result of the AI itself, but from the too low E2. You need to find your correct dosage.

The high E2 is causing more issues for you than a low E2 would.

I am in the camp that prostate and hair loss issues normally attributed to DHT are more directly affected by estrogens (or more specifically, changes in estrogens from what the body was previously "tuned" to). You need to get this sorted out.

You need to include PSA in your bloodwork.

I agree with previous posters that you should take the time to figure out why your T was low and resort to TRT as a last option. But since you are already on, it will make htis process mor difficult as your baseline may be skewed. But still probably worth a shot. Depends on your time, patience, money, and willingness to dig and put th epieces together.