T Nation

On TRT 4-5 Months, Feeling Worse Now. Should I Just Be Done with TRT?

#1

Hey Fellas posted on here once before and you guys were very helpful, I lurk the forums now and then for some similar struggles.

Ive been on test for 4-5 months and at times its helped I’ve felt stronger and had better erections and now for the last month and a half I’ve felt terrible and now I feel worse than ever. Im just looking for some advice on if I should just hop off and if so, whats the proper way? Tried clomid for a week before hoping on test and that was rough so idk.

Hopped on test initially because I was tired a lot and erection quality was down, I think all this started after I went on and off a bunch of anti depressants.

First blood work:
8/31/18
test: 122
SHBG: 6.6
Free test: 4
Bio Test: 99
Estradiol: 12
Estrone: 17

Bloodwork after 3 and half months on test cyp 160 mg per week, 500iu HCG twice per week, and anastrozole .5 once e/o week, (felt the same low energy, with occasional mood swings after anastrozole but at least my erection was rocking.)

3/29/19
estrone: 23
FSH: below .2
LH: below .2
Progesterone: .73
Estradiol: 28
SHBG: 16.8
Test: 584
Free Test: 16
Bio Test: 409

After this the clinic upped my dose to 180mg a week and almost immediately after I experienced ED and extremely low libido, I let this rock for 2-3 weeks thinking it would correct itself and it didnt, also started to get extremely tired like all the time, was thinking it was too much test so I took a week off my shot where I felt anxious but not as tired and my libido came back a little bit and then went back on 120 mg and thats where I’ve been the past 3 weeks. Libido is barely present and on a lot of days I can’t get out of bed and when I do I’m zonked 4 hours later, my life is unmanageable.

Current Bloodwork:
5/8/19
estrone: below 10
FSH: below .2
LH: below .2
Progesterone: .65
Estradiol: 33
SHBG: 13.4
Test: 561
Free Test: 17
Bio Test: 419

Also got my thyroid checked 2 weeks ago and doc said that improved too so idk wtf is going on.

#2

Just looking for some advice to stop feeling this way man I can’t get to work, can’t do my creative shit. Suffering man. Any advice would be really appreciated!

#3

You have low shbg you need to break up your injections to eod or daily. If you are going to a clinic for injections then find a new dr

#4

Can you provide lab ranges, age and anti-depressant history? There are some here all too familiar with them and they may be able to help.

Also, going forward, no need to check FSH and LH while on TRT. Don’t pay for that.

#5

Stay on trt - do 80 mgs Sunday morning and Wednesday night total 160 mgs a week . Watch some YouTube motivational videos The Rock is great . Stop every anti depressant Med immediately . Tell yourself your a machine !!! Get the Fuk up and go for a run , go to the gym , drop some viagra and fuk your girl tonight !!! Too many people down in the dumps , your mind is a powerful thing .

#6

That low SHBG is causing you issues, definitely do not go up on dose, maybe go down. And ignore any idiot that thinks depression can be solved by a change of attitude, or that you can cold turkey off of anti-depressants without negative repercussions.

#7

Do not, under any circumstances, take the advice to cold-turkey off an antidepressant. You may end up in a place you can scarcely recognize.

Your numbers look somewhat similar to mine, all except the E2, mine is higher, at 44 last time I checked. I tried lowering my dose to 8mg ED on injections and just felt worse. I recently started the scrotal cream and I’m feeling better than on injections. Still dealing with intermittent fatigue, depressive episodes, irritability and low motivation but even with those I’m better than on injections. The advice I’m getting from a Facebook group I’m in is to increase my dose and to look at my thyroid. Although my SHBG is low, like yours, and my E2 is likely to go up, the new line of thinking is that E2 actually has benefits and that the symptoms we feel probably have other sources. @enackers could enlighten you more.

#8

Check out @enackers posts, as well as my recent stuff. I was feeling fucking awful on TRT after 2 months. Just horrific. Finally turned a corner and I’m feeling better.

There can be a variety of causes, but it takes a really good doc sometimes to get to the bottom of it.

Also,second @jpt365’s advice on ADs. Do NOT go off of them cold turkey. Wanting to get off of them is commendable, but take it slowly. Check out the “surviving antidepressants” website for help. (Hopefully it’s ok to post that).

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#9

This is an easy one. I know you will all believe I don’t know what I’m talking about, and that’s fine, but here is your answer:

  1. Ditch the HCG unless you absolutely need to remain fertile.
  2. Ditch the AI immediately. E2 is good for you, and essential for libido and erections, contrary to the bro science you have been brainwashed with. AIs are essentially poison for your body.
  3. Your SHBG is on the low end which means you will metabolize T very quickly. You need to move to more frequent administration. Daily is most ideal if not do every other day. Move to SubQ injections instead of IM.
  4. The lack of AI means you will convert more test to E2 which means you need to increase your dose slightly to compensate. The lack of HCG means your natural production will diminish so you will need to increase your dose slightly. I would move to 200mg/week, split into either daily or EOD injections SubQ.

Give it a few weeks and I promise you that you will feel better. The rest of the guys here will disagree as the majority have a lot of catching up to do. THAT is your solution. Do as you wish. If you do it, please post back to report that you’re feeling better, which will most definitely be the case.

#10

He went on and off a bunch of antidepressants !!! This world is getting weak !!! Take a pill for this take a pill for that , man up and be happy !!! You all can keep enabling ppl but I refuse to . You want to be happy in life than fucking be happy !!! Tell me what worrying accomplished for ya , anxiety ??? … it’s called planning , managing … get your shit together in life and watch the pieces fall into place

#11

@straightnasty if you think depression is that simple, I’ve got news for you: it isn’t. When my total T was @ 220 I felt depressed as hell. I’m wealthy, I have a successful company, I have a smoking hot wife who is intelligent and successful… nothing to possibly complain about yet I felt depressed. I got my free T levels over 30 and suddenly life was amazing. It’s not just all in your head. It’s not just positive thinking. If your hormones are a mess even winning the lottery won’t make you feel any better.

#12

Like I said in my post to the OP continue taking trt , I understand hormone levels can affect ya . But not take this pill and that pill stuff cause your feeling depressed .

#13

If the OP isn’t willing to inject small daily doses, stop TRT now because you are NEVER going to feel good on weekly dosing. Low SHBG men struggle on TRT do to excess free hormones and need to inject very small doses everyday in order to manages free estrogen.

Estrone is the incorrect test, estrogen sensitive is the correct test. There are a lot of red flags here, LH and FSH are suppressed on TRT, so I don’t know why your doctor is testing them. I believe it’s more than likely you are getting quacked by this clinic, 160mg weekly is the wrong protocol for someone with super low SHBG, perfect for high SHBG men.

Perhaps your doctor is underdosing you, very common. Free T3 needs to be midrange or better, Reverse T3 needs to be <15 ng/dL.

I would like to see ferritin and an iron panel, cortisol as well.

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#14

This will probably make your head explode, but when it comes to current best practices for TRT, we don’t even measure E2 anymore. Why? Because if we aren’t going to manage it or block it, why measure it? We don’t measure E2. Same with DHT. The key here is optimizing Free T well above the ‘clinical range’ designed for sick people.

#15

@bennyboom
Anti-depressants are extremely effective in certain situations and shoukd be utilized when other options fail. Someone saying to toughen up has never experienced that level of depression. When coming off antidepressants you have to wean yourself off over a long period of time (months). You’ll have little to no withdrawal symptoms that way. I’ve done cold turkey and weaning many times and I know what I’m taking about from experience.

You should check other things too. I myself was on the verge of a mental breakdown not too terribly long ago. I ended up finding out that I was anemic and that something as simple as supplementing Iron changed my life and made me feel like a human again. The labs you posted aren’t enough to show what’s going on with you but I would highly recommend getting extensive lab work done. I got the “Fatigue panel” from discount labs done with the addition of a couple other tests. You can look it up and make a list to have your doctor test for those things.

It’s likely your doctor only used TSH to check your thyroid which most here know is incredibly insufficient. Make sure you get a complete thyroid panel done so at least you can rule that out. TRT will put your system into overdrive so in many cases it can exasperate a problem that previously went unnoticed. For me I had to fix these other things before I got the full effects of testosterone (or any effects for that matter).

Don’t give up though! You could be feeling better in a matter of days once you find out what’s going on. I waited months to do lab work because I felt so down and out but once I did and realized what was going on I felt life changing differences that day. I was and still am so mad at myself for not taking the initiative sooner but that’s easier said than done when you feel so bad mentally. I truly feel for you and I’m rooting for your success.

#16

Probably the kind of guy who tells opiate addicts to just man up and get clean. “Just stop and dont do it anymore. Simple as that”

#17

Yah it’s fucked up. Docs hand them out like candy. Folks don’t ask. They aren’t given second options.
They just say here take this.

It’s both parties fault.

#19

You need to stop giving advice to anyone. Avoiding anti-depressants is a good idea in general, IMO. However, if you do take one, you absolutely must be careful about how you stop taking it, if indeed you can ever stop or ever want to stop. Some people have legitimate chemical imbalances that require chemical intervention, like low T or screwed up catecholamines. You cannot will greater test production if you have primary hypogonadism, you cannot fix a chemical imbalance that way either. You lack basic medical knowledge here and should shut your ignorant pie hole about it.

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#20

That’s not actually true. It is a quantity that should be known, and some people require intervention. If they have sides that warrant it, knowing where that number sits is a guide to help alleviate the sides. Some guys really do not do well with any kind of elevation in E2 or have other underlying issues that complicate the treatment. It’s best to let it be if you can, but sometimes that’s just not possible. Being 100% anti AI is not really any better than being in always take it camp.

#21

Hahaha yeah man, I guess some people just have it like that. I try to tell people who say ignorant shit like that, to wake up. Statements like that have the power to actually hurt people. I’ve been in the field of mental health and addiction long enough to know that it ain’t that cut and dry. Are antidepressants over prescribed? Yes absolutely. Are there people who legitimately need antidepressants because of chemical imbalances? Yes 100%. The problem is, once you’re already on it, you have to be very careful about coming off. It is a slow process. Withdrawal from antidepressants is very real and can cause worse effects. I’ve done it. Lexapro was a nightmare to get off and it had to be done with a DOCTOR. Not some bro on the internet.

I’ve been through hell in my life and because of that, I can mentally handle a lot. Not everyone is built that way though. I came to a point where I decided to see a doctor and try different things to try to better my life and my health. It’s why I’m on TRT, why I’m on a strict diet, why I exercise, why I ended up on Wellbutrin even though I was totally against it after my experience with lexapro and other antidepressants and it changed my life. There is more to it then “just man up.” You have to be careful with that shit though. You have to advocate for yourself. Not all doctor’s have your best interests at heart.

To the OP, just keep reaching out and trying brother. Run tests, try different things, find the right health professionals and talk to people on here. One thing I do agree with what the man said, you have to push yourself. Even if you feel like shit, you have to try your best to get out there. Struggling with chronic fatigue for years before starting this whole process, I learned that I had to leave work and go to the gym no matter how tired or shitty I felt. I had to hit the beach and surf or hit the boxing gym even if I felt lethargic or down. Some days, I’d be crawling through the fucking gym, but I was there anyways. I started helping others here and there even though all I wanted to do was think about how shitty I was feeling or how tired I was all the time. You have to meet this thing half way. You have to eat well even when you want to grab that bag of skittles or chow down that chocolate cake. You have to combine it all to get better. Medications like TRT are only part of the process. I think you’ll come out of this. Just keep trying! Thats what I did. Instead of feeling lethargic 90% of days throughout the week, I’m probably feeling that way about 20% of the days now. Which for me is a miracle. You can get there bro!!

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