T Nation

On High Rep Days........

To CW or anyone really-
While doing my high rep workouts on CW’s TBT routine, it seems as if my body can’t handle it. It’s not like I’m using too high of a weight but just the high reps in general have me shaking. Ex. - by the time I get to the 15th rep of squats my legs get all shaky and it feels like my nervous system is shot and I feel like shit. Any technical explanations?
I must say that I have been doing mostly low rep/high weight routines for the last 2 years.

I’m in the same boat. Suck it up and enjoy the 3x18 days and the urge to projectile vomit for upto 3 hours after.

[quote]Garrett W. wrote:
I’m in the same boat. Suck it up and enjoy the 3x18 days and the urge to projectile vomit for upto 3 hours after.[/quote]

That’s no joke. An hour after my workout today which consisted of hack squats and rom. dead’s + others I still feel nauseas.

Wait until you do DL’s 3 x18! LOL!!!

I’m curious about this myself. I posted in the Spike thread about losing vision for a few seconds and it was on a high rep day (25 reps). This almost Always happens to me when I go past 10-12 reps, and just gets worse the higher I go. This week I dropped the weight 10 lbs from last week and still had to stop short so I didn’t black out again. I don’t mind blacking out, but I figure it can’t be healthy.

[quote]Jason05 wrote:
I’m curious about this myself. I posted in the Spike thread about losing vision for a few seconds and it was on a high rep day (25 reps). This almost Always happens to me when I go past 10-12 reps, and just gets worse the higher I go. This week I dropped the weight 10 lbs from last week and still had to stop short so I didn’t black out again. I don’t mind blacking out, but I figure it can’t be healthy.[/quote]

Man…I thought i was busting my ass lifting when i started seeing spots and shit but you pretty much have me beat hands down.

[quote]Jason05 wrote:
I’m curious about this myself. I posted in the spike thread about losing vision for a few seconds and it was on a high rep day (25 reps). This almost Always happens to me when I go past 10-12 reps, and just gets worse the higher I go. This week I dropped the weight 10 lbs from last week and still had to stop short so I didn’t black out again. I don’t mind blacking out, but I figure it can’t be healthy.[/quote]

Are you breathing? I get a little light headed when I go heavy, but I’m holding my breath on the way up. But on 3X18, you shouldn’t be straining such that you quit breathing.

[quote]kurmatt wrote:
To CW or anyone really-
While doing my high rep workouts on CW’s TBT routine, it seems as if my body can’t handle it. It’s not like I’m using too high of a weight but just the high reps in general have me shaking. Ex. - by the time I get to the 15th rep of squats my legs get all shaky and it feels like my nervous system is shot and I feel like shit. Any technical explanations?
I must say that I have been doing mostly low rep/high weight routines for the last 2 years. [/quote]

To Kurmatt:
From a personal experience, I think it is an conditioning issue.

I have been doing Karate for a while. Last year I was doing endurance training for my grading and used high-reps low-intensity style (50%1RM, 25-30 reps). I remembered I had a lot of difficulties at the beginning of the phase, even though I had bulked up a little and had reached my then new PR on back squat and DB bench press on the previous hypertrophy and max strength pahses. However five weeks later (12 x 1.5hr sessions) I had got used to it, and since then I knew I could work against external resistance continuously in a long duration.

My point of view is that you need to put your body to get used to the duration that you rarely experience.

Just my 2 cents.

[quote]geekboy wrote:

To Kurmatt:
From a personal experience, I think it is an conditioning issue.

I have been doing Karate for a while. Last year I was doing endurance training for my grading and used high-reps low-intensity style (50%1RM, 25-30 reps). I remembered I had a lot of difficulties at the beginning of the phase, even though I had bulked up a little and had reached my then new PR on back squat and DB bench press on the previous hypertrophy and max strength pahses. However five weeks later (12 x 1.5hr sessions) I had got used to it, and since then I knew I could work against external resistance continuously in a long duration.

My point of view is that you need to put your body to get used to the duration that you rarely experience.

Just my 2 cents.
[/quote]

Sounds right but I was wondering what the scientific explanation was. Something to do with slow and fast twich fibers?

This is just a guess, but the nausea sounds like lactic acid in your stomach. The shaking sounds like your nervous system just isn’t used to the high reps yet. I get the same way when I do high rep stuff.

Hell, I did 3x10 squats yesterday and felt like hurling. These things happen sometimes.

Again, it’s just a guess.

You have been doing lower rep work for a while. Doing higher rep work requires the body to produce more energy. The higher rep work causes the body to produce more and larger mitochondria in the muscle cells. The mitochondria produce ATP used for energy.

Basically you are running out of gas. You had enough mitochondria capacity for the low rep energy requirements but not enough for the higher rep demands. The more mitochondria you have the more energy capacity you have.

[quote]tall tom wrote:
You have been doing lower rep work for a while. Doing higher rep work requires the body to produce more energy. The higher rep work causes the body to produce more and larger mitochondria in the muscle cells. The mitochondria produce ATP used for energy.

Basically you are running out of gas. You had enough mitochondria capacity for the low rep energy requirements but not enough for the higher rep demands. The more mitochondria you have the more energy capacity you have.[/quote]

How do I get more? Does Biotest make a pill? (humor)

Isn’t this what Obi-wan checked out little Anakin for in Star Trek Episode I?

“Dude, the boy’s mitochondria is off the charts!”

“The Force is strong with this biotch!”

… or something like that.

Midichlorines are what you’re thinking of. That pissed off the fanboys because the force was supposed to be this supernatural / spiritual thing and then George Lucas decides to make up this jack off scientific term. That guy’s a boob.

Anyway, about blacking out…

[quote]Gregulator wrote:
Midichlorines are what you’re thinking of. That pissed off the fanboys because the force was supposed to be this supernatural / spiritual thing and then George Lucas decides to make up this jack off scientific term. That guy’s a boob.

Anyway, about blacking out…

[/quote]

Yes, of course I was joking. But, I totally agree with your assessment. It’s like building the suspense in a movie by never showing the monster. Then seeing a movie where the monster is the first thing you see. Much less scary. The Force should have remained supernatural and spiritual.

Anyway, about blacking out…

That blacking out shit sounds like it sucks. I know I freakin overtrain cause ill be in the gym for an hour (includes warm up and cool down, not cardio). Ill do maybe 5 sets of the same excercise that targets the most muscles and then 3, which target the least, and Ill do this with maybe 9 to 12 excercises. I always go 10 reps with bar and dumb excercises, and 12 with the nauticals and 15 with no-weight excercises - and THOSE make me puke. Well, at least feel like I have to yak. After about 45 minutes of training everything will have a shade of white and I feel like I can breathe easier. Then Ill do pullups or dips and shit and Ill feel the need to yak. I think my regimin may be working, but if you find out how to overcome the hurling problem, let me know.

I figured it was a conditioning issue but I’m not sure how to correct it b/c I don’t do much high rep work. I’ve only been lifting a bit over a year, but every phase I’ve tried higher rep stuff (10+ reps) I start losing strength like no other b/c I have to drop the weight so significantly. Just recently when I was dieting I went from squatting 265 for 3 reps at 150 lbs (start of diet) to currently struggling with 215 for 3 reps at 146 lbs. This was after 2 months of a higher rep program. Yes I know about the low rep/high weight stuff for cutting up but I had my reasons. And now I’m just trying to regain the strength I lost, which has lead me back to low reps/heavy weight.

I think it was posted once that for most people a 27 RM is something along the lines of 50% of their 1RM, but for me it’s closer to 30% or even less. At the same time I’ve found I can do low rep/high weight stuff all day long and not burnout. This is just my body though and I’m sure everyone is different.

If anyone has any suggestions, I’m very open to them. Oh and I’m not holding my breath. It’s definately a lack of oxygen but not b/c I’m not breathing…I make a very conscious effort to do that. It’s more along the lines of my body starts screaming at me to stop and I get light headed/slightly naseous, but I just tell it to shutup, crank the music up louder, and finish out my sets. Then when I’m done I pay the price. Of course I’m trying very hard not to do that anymore.

[quote]kurmatt wrote:

Sounds right but I was wondering what the scientific explanation was. Something to do with slow and fast twich fibers?

[/quote]

To Kurmatt:

Speaking of scientific explanation, let me start with Principle of adoptation. You mentioned that you have been training low-reps high intensity. Now you are on high-reps lower-intensity training, which is outside of the comfort zone that your body perviously adopted to.

As you guessed, it have something to do with FT/ST fibre thingy. Low-reps (1-5 reps) mainly focus on training the CNS and FT fibres to work with high resistance, while high-reps (20+ reps) mainly taxing on ST fibres and conditioning the CNS for long duration, or even cadrio-respiratory system if the duration of the set is long and the exercise is a full-body type (i.e. squat or DL, 90secs+). The ST fibre in your body probably have been sitting there comfortably as your previous training regime(s) required no work from them, and now all of the sudden you put all the work to them. No wonder the ST fibres are complaining (e.g. fatigue, DOMs etc).

In case you have not been doing cardio, the above applies to the cardio-respiratory system as well. Your CR system, in this case, would also have adopted that your pervious mainly anaerobic training regime. Now you require it to work in your high reps training so they are complaining along with the ST fibres (e.g. dizziness, nausea etc. - Classical symptoms of cardio-respiratory system fatigue, something you will see in a marathon).

Hope this time it is explained clearly.

The feeling that your CNS is shot is completely normal. After my first high rep day, I felt the same way and posted a similar thread to CW. He explained that it is normal and that is the desired effect. I remember leaving the gym trembling, but still feeling that I didn’t get a great workout. It’s all a part of the magic of TBT. Whatever it is, it works!

Thanks geekboy and others.
Well it makes me feel a little better knowing that others feel the same.