You could ask a chiro for general adjustments or find an osteopath who does adjustments (which is actually considered “better”, it’s just harder to find one who does). I also recommend trying Rolfing, which can work wonders. Make sure you find a Rolfer who believes in the “Big Ten” system, if he/she doesn’t they’ll want to go too deep, too soon. You may also have some myofascial restrictions so neuromuscular/ART could also be very helpfull as well.
[quote]Willus wrote:
Are you and your coach communicating well? You should have a meeting with him outside of practice, sit down and meet for lunch or something and seriously discuss your concerns with him. Tell him you are seriously worried about your shoulder pain and tell him about about the full extent of it.
If your coach is unwilling to listen to you and to help you with working around pain and injury then I would seriously consider finding a NEW COACH. Because it will invariably be you who will be SCREWED OVER in the end with a broken down body, and the coaches can always say “Oh he was lazy and couldn’t hack it”.[/quote]
I completely agree. Regardless of whether he is/was a successful lifter, if he’s not doing his job properly as a coach, you should look elsewhere. A coach should be supportive yet still push you, not causing you physical (and potentially irreparable) harm. Especially if you’re a beginner he should understand this and cut you some slack.
[quote]Dr.PowerClean wrote:
Schultzie, you’re getting bombarded with advice now. I reread your posts, and the way you describe your shoulder pain is very graphic and severe. The beat up body thing is probably just not being conditioned yet for intense OL, but the shoulder is very vulnerable. If it were me, despite my distaste for docs and MRI’s, an MRI would tell you ALOT about whether you are doing damage to your shoulder joints. If you are not, then you can explore chiro’s, ART, etc.
BTW, Chris, did your chiro ALONE take you from being stiff and grimacing in OH squats to comfortable, or combined with other flexibility training? Doc [/quote]
MY Chiro ALONE has taken me form many bad places back into shape. Hyper extended knee (knee bar in comp), capsule impinged shoulder (bent arm lock), pulled abdominal erector (sex), fucked meta carpals (someone filled the heavy bag with rice, cunts).
The list goes on but I get regular appointments all the time (I live in Canada so it’s cheap. good ol communism). the regular appointments are what keep me strong and ready to train hard. Keeps away the injuries as well.
Then again my chiro is basically one of the best that walks the earth (I’m a bit of a jock rider given the situation) so there may be some dichotomy between two different practitioners. But so long as you get one that someone you know recommends you should be doing well.
So yeah, I’m a big advocate. Can every olympic team on earth be wrong?
-chris
[quote]rholdnr wrote:
You could ask a chiro for general adjustments or find an osteopath who does adjustments (which is actually considered “better”, it’s just harder to find one who does). I also recommend trying Rolfing, which can work wonders. Make sure you find a Rolfer who believes in the “Big Ten” system, if he/she doesn’t they’ll want to go too deep, too soon. You may also have some myofascial restrictions so neuromuscular/ART could also be very helpfull as well.[/quote]
Hmmmm… MY g/f and all of her dancer friends talk about this osteopathy. Now that you have talked about it here I am beginning to wonder more.
I shall have to investigate this new wave osteopahtic stuff. I wonder what it is? Is it just soft tissue? hmmm…
-chris
How often do you recommend going to a chiro, Avocado, for a lifter without any current issues? If my lifting sessions are pain free - with the exception of DOMS and built up scar tissue that I take care of with foam rolling - do you still recommend I see a chiro as soon as possible?
Also, do you do ART, or have any massage technique preferences and suggestions?
[quote]schultzie wrote:
the only time he took it easy on my shoulders was during a set i was yelping out involuntarily in pain and almost crying, so he let me do a few sets of heavy triples in the back squat before moving on to snatching.
snatching over and over and over and over with just 40kg, i must have snatched 50 times, and got maybe 15 good ones in.
im thinking too hard about all the different parts of the lift instead of just luetting it flow into one graceful movement. i’ve been flattened by the bar, dropped it on my lower back, even on top of my head. i just wish i was getting better, i wish i could train twice a day every day and have the physique to sustain it[/quote]
In other news it sounds like your coach is not very good. My coach tries to make sure that we don’t get in too many “bad” reps. It just teaches bad neural patterning. Just like a gymnastics coach makes you take a break if you ‘bail’ a flip or other move. O-lifts and gymnastics are neural learning sports just like many others and you don’t want your athletes patterning bad habits.
I mean my O-lift coach really busts our balls and makes us go heavy and get good volume in but never makes drives us till we get sloppy. Doing something wrong over and over and over just seems like poor methodology to me, but who am I to say.
-chris
[quote]cormac wrote:
How often do you recommend going to a chiro, Avocado, for a lifter without any current issues? If my lifting sessions are pain free - with the exception of DOMS and built up scar tissue that I take care of with foam rolling - do you still recommend I see a chiro as soon as possible?
Also, do you do ART, or have any massage technique preferences and suggestions?[/quote]
My chiro does the ART along with adjustments and always has long before ART was “cool.” You really can’t have one without the other.
I get adjusted one a monthish. If i get a random injury from some random shit (fell down the stairs the other day, fukin hard wood and socks, I hate socks) I go and get a quick crunch or sometimes two (one then another the next week). This usually nips what could become: tendonitis, impingment, chronic pain, patellar instability etc. in the bud before it can get bad.
But every 4-6 weeks is good for someone that just wants to maintain good posture (makes you stronger I swear) and overall health and well being.
-chris
Chris, interestingly enough I have had two VERY IMPRESSIVE experiences with D.O.'s (osteopaths), whereas I have been to a dozen chiropractors who didn’t do much for me. I think it’s an art, and most of these artists just arent too talented. I truly believe there are good ones, I’ve heard way too many stories like yours.
My good osteopaths were also trained in chiropractic, and were more impressive in their chiropractic manipulations than the chiropractors I went to. In addition, they are usually "integrative medicine" specialists, meaning they use traditional medicine when indicated, but also are open to alternative medicine/techniques as well.
A D.O. saved my life, diagnosing an aluminum toxicity using only kinesiology (muscle testing). He then checked my blood and found it was 15 times normal range. Fucking antacids, mainly. He hooked up an IV IN MY HOUSE, and detoxed that shit out of me right away. THAT is a doctor!!! Doc
[quote]Avocado wrote:
schultzie wrote:
the only time he took it easy on my shoulders was during a set i was yelping out involuntarily in pain and almost crying, so he let me do a few sets of heavy triples in the back squat before moving on to snatching.
snatching over and over and over and over with just 40kg, i must have snatched 50 times, and got maybe 15 good ones in.
im thinking too hard about all the different parts of the lift instead of just luetting it flow into one graceful movement. i’ve been flattened by the bar, dropped it on my lower back, even on top of my head. i just wish i was getting better, i wish i could train twice a day every day and have the physique to sustain it
In other news it sounds like your coach is not very good. My coach tries to make sure that we don’t get in too many “bad” reps. It just teaches bad neural patterning. Just like a gymnastics coach makes you take a break if you ‘bail’ a flip or other move. O-lifts and gymnastics are neural learning sports just like many others and you don’t want your athletes patterning bad habits.
I mean my O-lift coach really busts our balls and makes us go heavy and get good volume in but never makes drives us till we get sloppy. Doing something wrong over and over and over just seems like poor methodology to me, but who am I to say.
-chris[/quote]
good point. Gotta have technique. And it has to be good EVERY time. Slip and you miss the lift. Takes a long time to unlearn something that has been learned incorrectly.
new update guys, week 3 begins.
hands NO problem! my calluses are finally built up
wrists are a bit sore warming up, so i wrap them tape and tensor bands and they only hurt when i do a snatch incorrectly = motivation to not fuck up haha
my shoulders are fine! i think my body just needed to get used to training them 3x a week/im a big pussy whiner. there was no snapping or sharp pains and i was able to press about 5 more lbs this week thanks to the 2 days off to heal i got on the weekend
my coach is VERY good, but also VERY tough.
i was getting yelled at hardcore because my ass was either too low or too high on the snatch so he tells me “you get set up, and you dont fucking go until i say so” so basically forced my ass to go in the right spot = landing alot more snatches, i can get maybe 3 out of 5 full snatches with 40kg now, and like 1/5 with 45 lol (beats me what the difference is)
i dropped the bar on my ankles today and got yelled at like seriously, he stood up and really yelled and said never try to hold on if its doing that, harsh but i understand why cause im fucked if i injure myself.
my knees and elbows are the ones that need to tougher up now because im getting better at locking out and “lifting with my bones” and my knees just feel kinda sore/tight?
its hard to describe my knees, like i have full easy range of motion they just like feel… i guess sore? swollen i think, like im aware of them right now when i type but they dont “hurt” per say.
anyways thanks for the advice and stuff, i’ve let off on the prehab and super long warm ups and just sorta let my body heal and get tough in the right spots, i know im thinking too much about this stuff but im having a great time!
ps; i know my coach doesn’t hate me because before training i saw him talking to another guy about how i show promise and will go places. He’s just totally one of those “tough love” kinda guys
Just to clear up a little misinformation…
Osteopaths aren’t trained in chiropractic, nor are they “new wave”. Osteopathic medicine was the first in the area of manipulation as we know it but years ago they were given the chance to go into the medical field. They agreed and therefore were able to prescribe medicine (like pills) so many osteopaths today do not go the way of what a DO is supposed to, ie:doing things to let the body heal itself, they would now rather just give you a pill to swallow.
Chiros on the other hand haven’t been given the option to join along in the world of medicine and therefore have no other choice than to use techniques such as adjustments and ART. So if you find an osteopath has DOES adjustments they are normally considered “better” than chiros because their field is much, MUCH older than that of Chiropractics.
And to answer my point of view on anyone looking to seek a chiro/osteopath who isn’t on a team or doesn’t have any current injuries: ask if they offer “General Adjustment” and what their rates are. A Gen. Adj. is basically like what happens when you ask your friend to crack your back for you but it’s done by a professional and it’s usually the WHOLE SPINE (from lumbar to thoracic to cervical regions).
FYI
[quote]rholdnr wrote:
Just to clear up a little misinformation…
Osteopaths aren’t trained in chiropractic, nor are they “new wave”. Osteopathic medicine was the first in the area of manipulation as we know it but years ago they were given the chance to go into the medical field. They agreed and therefore were able to prescribe medicine (like pills) so many osteopaths today do not go the way of what a DO is supposed to, ie:doing things to let the body heal itself, they would now rather just give you a pill to swallow.
Chiros on the other hand haven’t been given the option to join along in the world of medicine and therefore have no other choice than to use techniques such as adjustments and ART. So if you find an osteopath has DOES adjustments they are normally considered “better” than chiros because their field is much, MUCH older than that of Chiropractics.
And to answer my point of view on anyone looking to seek a chiro/osteopath who isn’t on a team or doesn’t have any current injuries: ask if they offer “General Adjustment” and what their rates are. A Gen. Adj. is basically like what happens when you ask your friend to crack your back for you but it’s done by a professional and it’s usually the WHOLE SPINE (from lumbar to thoracic to cervical regions).
FYI[/quote]
This is all correct, but it still boils down to are you getting a person who is gifted at what they do, or not. I’ve gotten benefit a couple times from a gifted Rolfer and Reiki practitioner, even though I wouldn’t recommend spending your money on them unless you were desperate.
Meanwhile, while we are debating various courses of action to take for our man Shultzie’s apparently damaged and mangled body, today his shoulders are fine.
Thread over.
[quote]Dr.PowerClean wrote:
rholdnr wrote:
Just to clear up a little misinformation…
Osteopaths aren’t trained in chiropractic, nor are they “new wave”. Osteopathic medicine was the first in the area of manipulation as we know it but years ago they were given the chance to go into the medical field. They agreed and therefore were able to prescribe medicine (like pills) so many osteopaths today do not go the way of what a DO is supposed to, ie:doing things to let the body heal itself, they would now rather just give you a pill to swallow.
Chiros on the other hand haven’t been given the option to join along in the world of medicine and therefore have no other choice than to use techniques such as adjustments and ART. So if you find an osteopath has DOES adjustments they are normally considered “better” than chiros because their field is much, MUCH older than that of Chiropractics.
And to answer my point of view on anyone looking to seek a chiro/osteopath who isn’t on a team or doesn’t have any current injuries: ask if they offer “General Adjustment” and what their rates are. A Gen. Adj. is basically like what happens when you ask your friend to crack your back for you but it’s done by a professional and it’s usually the WHOLE SPINE (from lumbar to thoracic to cervical regions).
FYI
This is all correct, but it still boils down to are you getting a person who is gifted at what they do, or not. I’ve gotten benefit a couple times from a gifted Rolfer and Reiki practitioner, even though I wouldn’t recommend spending your money on them unless you were desperate.
Meanwhile, while we are debating various courses of action to take for our man Shultzie’s apparently damaged and mangled body, today his shoulders are fine.
Thread over.
[/quote]
Thank you. I agree.
Indeed. I do agree with Mr. PwCl that the difference is made in the level of skill of the practitioner. I have been to some bad chiro when im abroad.
-chris
[quote]schultzie wrote:
So i’ve started being coached for olympic lifting, and this is no walk in the park. The goals are serious, the coach is tough, and the workouts are brutal.
After 2 weeks my body is having trouble keeping up, especially my upper body. Wrists are very sore, especially at the bottom on an overhead squat. My hands used to get torn up alot but they are getting better. The worst is my shoulders. I am actually getting weaker at the overhead press and i can’t get any sort of explosiveness out of them which makes my coach yell at me for not jerking a squat jerk or locking out, which in turn angers me for not being able to perform.
Every time I do an overhead press, I hear a sharp snap in my shoulder and acute pain in the rotator cuff. any sort of overhead movement actually makes me wince in pain. I’m so pissed that I am not progressing because my whole life right now is based around this.
I show up 45 minute early to warm up, i do arm spins, stretches, dislocates, bar work, i stretch thouroughly after each workout, which last up to and over 2 hours sometimes, 3 days a week. i am taking super high doses of fish oil(25g +) +5000 calories a day, 250+g of protein, tons of good fats eggs walnuts pb etc flax oil, glucosamine, i swallow a a spoonful of shredded ginger each day and drink over 5 litres of water.
off days im doing soft tissue work on the foam or pvc roller, using 2 tennis balls taped together, 1 minutes + stretch holds etc, i alternate days with either a freezing cold/scalding hot contrast shower, or a 20 minute epsom salt bath, and im getting at least 10 hours of sleep with melatonin per night.
this isn’t enough, im feel like im moving backwards and it angers me, what can i do?
is this just something that all beginners have to go through, and after 4 - 5 weeks ill eventually get better? every day i feel like i’ve been hit by a truck, i’ve gained 3 lbs but i look much less muscular and i haven’t gotten a “pump” since i’ve started[/quote]
Geez i dont know where to begin.
- Your workouts are WAAAY to long.If youre lifting 80- 90 percent of max. If youre just learning technnique with a broomhandle 2 hours could be ok. Otherwise its overtraining and you are already just that. Youve got the pains and the tiredness to prove it.Especially the backward thing. Whats the point of lifting if you dont progress? You can only progress when you allow your body to heal and grow. This DOES NOT happen in the gym.
I suggest you train every other day max 1 hour at a time- including warmups !!
Actually the chinese elite trains 40 minutes and then rest and then 40 min and then rest. You try 1 hour and go home. You have to be in training to train.
And its not a thing all beginners go through. I dont know youre athletic history, but if you only started daily training at say, age 15 its too late. You simply wont have the tendons and ligament strength to withstand daily or frequent training.The good news is that you can gradually improve your recovery ability so start slow and build.
- The pump ? What kind of crap is that? The fact is that you just discovered how weak and undertrained youre body really is. PUmp alone never built an inch of fuckin muscle. Youre on the right path, kid. You just need to learn how to walk it. GOod luck. If you keep up ol lifting youll find that it is the most rewarding thing for both your looks and your atheletic ability you ever done.
RE: Wrist pain the in overhead squat check out this link:
http://www.performancemenu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=677
It was a thread I started asking about the exact same question.
This link has the pictures for the stretches recommended:
http://www.performancemenu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=675
thanks for the tips on OHS wrist pain!
and deus, i don’t choose how long i train, it is what it is.
update, i have tendonitis on my right elbow now so today i just did back squats, snatch pulls, and clean pulls. icing for 10 mins 2x a day now it should get better soon.
also my left wrist feels like i have a fractures scaphoid or something, ill try those flexor stretches and stuff to fix my flexibility and i have a few days to heal because of my elbow anyways.
i am progressing, this is just the first few weeks to hammer my body into some sort of shape and ill come out of this strong and hard, im already feeling less pooped after the workouts.
oh yeah today i had my nuts hanging out weird or something and i totally crushed my hog doing a clean pull
[quote]schultzie wrote:
So i’ve started being coached for olympic lifting, and this is no walk in the park. The goals are serious, the coach is tough, and the workouts are brutal.
After 2 weeks my body is having trouble keeping up, especially my upper body. Wrists are very sore, especially at the bottom on an overhead squat. My hands used to get torn up alot but they are getting better. The worst is my shoulders. I am actually getting weaker at the overhead press and i can’t get any sort of explosiveness out of them which makes my coach yell at me for not jerking a squat jerk or locking out, which in turn angers me for not being able to perform.
Every time I do an overhead press, I hear a sharp snap in my shoulder and acute pain in the rotator cuff. any sort of overhead movement actually makes me wince in pain. I’m so pissed that I am not progressing because my whole life right now is based around this.
I show up 45 minute early to warm up, i do arm spins, stretches, dislocates, bar work, i stretch thouroughly after each workout, which last up to and over 2 hours sometimes, 3 days a week. i am taking super high doses of fish oil(25g +) +5000 calories a day, 250+g of protein, tons of good fats eggs walnuts pb etc flax oil, glucosamine, i swallow a a spoonful of shredded ginger each day and drink over 5 litres of water.
off days im doing soft tissue work on the foam or pvc roller, using 2 tennis balls taped together, 1 minutes + stretch holds etc, i alternate days with either a freezing cold/scalding hot contrast shower, or a 20 minute epsom salt bath, and im getting at least 10 hours of sleep with melatonin per night.
this isn’t enough, im feel like im moving backwards and it angers me, what can i do?
is this just something that all beginners have to go through, and after 4 - 5 weeks ill eventually get better? every day i feel like i’ve been hit by a truck, i’ve gained 3 lbs but i look much less muscular and i haven’t gotten a “pump” since i’ve started[/quote]
In regards to your stretching your shoulder/rotator cuff
How extensive is it? Are you pulling beyond your muscles normal range of motion? (further then your active range)
yeah i am, thats not longer a problem though, my body just had to adapt
My shoulder tweaked on a split jerk and I thought “Now I know what schultize feels like”
Had fuckin 3 sets of SpJk left and 8 sets of Push Press. Piss!
-chris