T Nation

Olympic Conjugate Split

I was curious as to what you guys think of my split.

Monday:
Snatch- 5x5-1
ME/ RE Squat- 5x5-1
** If ME Squat then Breathing Squats
Row- 5x5
Flat Press- 5x5

Wednesday:
Power Clean- 5x3
Snatch High Pull- 5x5
RE/ ME Deadlift- 5x5-1
** If ME DL then DE Squat
Push Press v Overhead Press 5x5

Friday:
Clean and Jerk- 5x5-1
Front v Overhead Squat- 5x5
Stiff Legged Deadlift- 5x5
Kipping Pull-ups 3x Failure v Weighted Pull-ups- 5x5

+2-3 additional GPP/Crossfit sessions

The ** movements are not necessary but I would love to include them. Also the movements where there are two options I will be switching week to week.

I am trying to lean out to about 8-10% from about 220 and 15% @ 5’10’’. I am also trying to increase my Squat, DL, Snatch and CnJ (of course.) Besides that I want to increase my GPP, vertical jump height, agility, 40, 100, 400, mile, 5 mile, V02 max , and lastly supreme flexibility and stability.

I based my routine off of a self made split philosophy

M/W/F
Snatch
ME Squat
DE DL
Pulling Movement

Clean & Jerk
ME DL
DE Bench
Hamstring Movement

Clean Variation
ME Bench
DE Squat
Snatch Variation


M/T/H/F
Snatch Variation
ME Squat
Hamstring Movement
DE Bench Press

Snatch
ME Bench Press
DE DL
Quad Focus Movement

Clean Variation
ME DL
Vertical Pulling
Tricep or Horizontal Pushing Movement

Clean and Jerk
DE Squat
OH Pushing Movement
Horizontal Pulling Movement

What do you think about this?

Thanks!!

bumparooni

I am trying to lean out to about 8-10% from about 220 and 15% @ 5’10’’. I am also trying to increase my Squat, DL, Snatch and CnJ (of course.) Besides that I want to increase my GPP, vertical jump height, agility, 40, 100, 400, mile, 5 mile, V02 max , and lastly supreme flexibility and stability.

Not trying to improve much are you!?! Take steroids.

[quote]AndyG wrote:
I am trying to lean out to about 8-10% from about 220 and 15% @ 5’10’’. I am also trying to increase my Squat, DL, Snatch and CnJ (of course.) Besides that I want to increase my GPP, vertical jump height, agility, 40, 100, 400, mile, 5 mile, V02 max , and lastly supreme flexibility and stability.

Not trying to improve much are you!?! Take steroids.[/quote]

you are an idiot. i say that with the utmost certainty.

[quote]RedMeat wrote:

I am trying to lean out to about 8-10% from about 220 and 15% @ 5’10’’. I am also trying to increase my Squat, DL, Snatch and CnJ (of course.) Besides that I want to increase my GPP, vertical jump height, agility, 40, 100, 400, mile, 5 mile, V02 max , and lastly supreme flexibility and stability.

[/quote]

In my opinion you’re trying to do to much too quickly.
For example, when i was doing oly lifting both lifts were increasing, my vert increased, but i gained weight and my endurance was crap, while you’re trying to lose weight and increase endurance.
If i was doing long distance running i couldn’t squat shit next day.
i mean it’s ok to have a few goals for each lifting cyle, but it’s hard to do everything at once. LD running and explosive lifting are on the opposite sides of the spectrum for me like i said before. But if you’re sure you can do it, cool.

I can also say that my oly lifting workout was (4 times a week, each day focusing on C&J or on snatch):

-classic lift or varation
-heavy high pulls
-squats
-optionary: overhead lifts ans some easy BB stuff, some jumping

For a freakin hour i just did classic lifts while coach tried to tell me what i was doing wrong, and only 30-45 min was strength training.

So pick a few goals that are compatible, like increase snatch, C&J, improve flexibility, vert and 40 yards time.

Or try to get better at 5 miles run, but you will probably lose some weight on the lifts.

But still i’m not really sure if you’re just fuckin with us with you post (by having so many goals), or are you actually serious. dunno

Wow, do none of you play sports? This is the basic goal of every off season (on season too but that is wishful isnt it?). This is just the most complex split I have looked at yet and wanted educated opinions on the SPLIT. Don’t worry about the volume, I’ve been doing this for years. The additional GPP is Rugby, I play for a major club and my university.

I grew up swimming and OLY lifting and was very close to all american and national age group swimming placer until I sustained a shoulder injury. I rehabbed and began playing rugby and took up PLing. I suck at wide stance squats sooo no more PL competing.

I also just cant give up on my ol buddy atf squat. I appreciate your concern for my volume but you must understand I have had high volume all of my life and these are always the goals. I eat 5-6k cals a day- very clean too.

I could though use some input on my split.

As a matter of fact, Vladimir Issurin, Anatoliy Bondarchuk, Charlie Francis, Yuri Verkhoshansky, and many other coaches working at high levels of sport performance have long been abandoning the notion of training too many conflicting performance goals at once, in favor of focusing on short-duration, high-intensity training blocks oriented solely toward compatible athletic attributes.

Fact is, you WILL NOT achieve optimal results trying to train for everything at once. Period.

On a more practical note, why 5x5 for O-lifts? Technique deteriorates to the point that performance gains are compromised past 3 reps or so.

[quote]RedMeat wrote:
Wow, do none of you play sports? This is the basic goal of every off season (on season too but that is wishful isnt it?). This is just the most complex split I have looked at yet and wanted educated opinions on the SPLIT. Don’t worry about the volume, I’ve been doing this for years. The additional GPP is Rugby, I play for a major club and my university.

I grew up swimming and OLY lifting and was very close to all american and national age group swimming placer until I sustained a shoulder injury. I rehabbed and began playing rugby and took up PLing. I suck at wide stance squats sooo no more PL competing.

I also just cant give up on my ol buddy atf squat. I appreciate your concern for my volume but you must understand I have had high volume all of my life and these are always the goals. I eat 5-6k cals a day- very clean too.

I could though use some input on my split. [/quote]

This has GOT to be a troll…

[quote]RedMeat wrote:
AndyG wrote:
I am trying to lean out to about 8-10% from about 220 and 15% @ 5’10’’. I am also trying to increase my Squat, DL, Snatch and CnJ (of course.) Besides that I want to increase my GPP, vertical jump height, agility, 40, 100, 400, mile, 5 mile, V02 max , and lastly supreme flexibility and stability.

Not trying to improve much are you!?! Take steroids.

you are an idiot. i say that with the utmost certainty.[/quote]

Why is that buddy? Because I said what everyone else has subsequently told you? Unless you are a big fatty how much correlation do you think there is between training for your 40 and 5 miles.

What else have you forgot to put in your list, bench press is the obvious ommission. Deadlift could go in there too. I would prioritise growing a brain though and quit calling other people idiots when they are right.

Do you want to be good at one thing, or average at lots?

I think the split, just the SPLIT, is a tiny bit overlapping. It does need more focus. If you are playing footy as GPP then the clean eating or a slight reduction in cals will rip the fat off.

Monday seems fine except for the 5x5 protocol on the classic lift. 7x3 or something lower rep higher set would likely be better. But I gather you know that given your O-lift background.

Wednes day looks the worst. First you do Cl, with an odd SxR shceme again. then high pull. Ok, that’s 2 pull movements, good so far. then Deadlift? Didn’t you just finish 2 vert pulling lifts/variations? After that the jump squats or w/e Your DE lift is seems ok. But after that you want to do push press? you sure you wont be bushed after high/heavy/fast DE work? shouldn’t weighted speed work be after the power or overhead work? maybe jerks/push press after box jumps but not DE squat work. especially 5x5. thats a ton for push press where the weight is heavy.

Friday looks ok, apart from teh SxR scheme. but why the SLDL? do you really need that in place of something else? If you are really looking for speed ATM I would keep the high rep (5x5) deadlift work down. the last 3 reps of the 5 will be slow as fuck and wont make you as fast as if you did sets of 2-3. even then I would stand between reps to keep the eccentric lifting focused.

I think you could put this program over 4 sessions and stick the CultFit stuff at the end of one of the days. If you say the volume is fine then that’s cool, it likely is. footy players are good at putting in work. But the lifts in the last half of those sessions are not going to be your best lifts. Also the 5x5 will make for not-the-best classic lifts.

Maybe after all that volume that you’ve been up to over the last X years it’s time to experiment with a bit lower volume and higher % of max intensity. It will keep you fresher for your footy and CultFit training efforts.

your call. also, what is “atf squats?” Ass-to-foot? ass-to-fuck?

-chris

Ill consider the lower volume… thanks for the info too. All my life has been high volume so that might take some work.

The set/rep scheme doesnt mean much and generally they will be low.

ATF-ass-to-floor

Avacado- thanks for the solid advice- all of that off the ground pulling and leg work does look deep. I need power off of the floor and an obscene amount of leg power. I m also just coming off of a chest specialization split and feeling a bit pulled forward since I didnt include enough upper pulling. Thats my justification for it. Does my justification suck?

[quote]AndyG wrote:
RedMeat wrote:
AndyG wrote:
I am trying to lean out to about 8-10% from about 220 and 15% @ 5’10’’. I am also trying to increase my Squat, DL, Snatch and CnJ (of course.) Besides that I want to increase my GPP, vertical jump height, agility, 40, 100, 400, mile, 5 mile, V02 max , and lastly supreme flexibility and stability.

Not trying to improve much are you!?! Take steroids.

you are an idiot. i say that with the utmost certainty.

Why is that buddy? Because I said what everyone else has subsequently told you? Unless you are a big fatty how much correlation do you think there is between training for your 40 and 5 miles.

What else have you forgot to put in your list, bench press is the obvious ommission. Deadlift could go in there too. I would prioritise growing a brain though and quit calling other people idiots when they are right.[/quote]

never played a sport like rugby eh? the 5 mile is there for a reason.

rugby as a wrestling match and a sprinting match that lasts 80 minutes. all that matters is I can go longer and stronger than anyone else. so you are wrong and if you are gonna get all pissy because I stepped on your cyber toes you have some selfesteem issues. thanks for trying though.

Never played rugby, I play Australian rules football but I can tell you no-one in their right mind would be training for a 5 mile run in either sport.

How often does a rugby player run 5 miles non stop in a game? Do they ever run more than 100m non stop? I’m guessing not as the field is only that long. Being able to repeat a short effort over and over again is a lot different to running a long distance non stop. People think you are a troll you are that silly.

[quote]AndyG wrote:
Never played rugby, I play Australian rules football but I can tell you no-one in their right mind would be training for a 5 mile run in either sport.

How often does a rugby player run 5 miles non stop in a game? Do they ever run more than 100m non stop? I’m guessing not as the field is only that long. Being able to repeat a short effort over and over again is a lot different to running a long distance non stop. People think you are a troll you are that silly.[/quote]

Rugby is non stop, it is not football and training is differnet. A football player would have a hard time keeping up with the paces of a Rugby match, no offense intended. I have to be able to push like hell in the front of the scrum (which is like a 5-10 second ME squat) then sprint to the next ruck and hit someone as hard as I can… then the next ruck and hit… then scrum… then next ruck… next ruck… oh the other side has the ball… run to the other end of the field and hit someone… scrum… ruck…rcuk…run…sprint…scrum…you get the idea.

It takes more than a good V02 max… it takes more than speed strength and power. The distance running is an INTRICATE part of training for this type of sport.

The better conditioned you are, the better you’ll perform when you’re tired. It doesn’t matter how much you lift or how fast you run, if you’re sucking wind all the time, you can’t play very well.

And yes… I run at LEAST 5 miles per game. The 5 miles is broken up by scrums and rucks and getting the shit knocked out of me… recovery time is minimal (if any at all, there are many times when I have sprinted to the location of the ruck to immediately go into a scrum) so endurance HAS to be high. Imagine no rest for 40 minutes twice. How do you prepare for that? Running 5 miles is a good start. Playing for the full 80 is another good way.

At any rate you don’t understand and I don’t understand why you care so much to sit here and try and argue with me. I just simply wanted help and your internet ego seems to get in your way of your helping. So please, if you reply, censor your answer to one of the helpful nature. This is the purpose of these forums isn’t it?

Again, thanks for stopping by.

EDIT: Also, on the topic of why do 5 mile and a 40 training? As your body adapts and tries to move to the next level (especially when you NEED to be as well rounded as possible) varying quantities of training volume can help move to that next level or break through a plateau. Those here of the Westside School will tell you that. They train 20 rep squats to conjugate their ME lifts specifically for this reason. The same goes for the ability to survive/perform in a rugby game, it takes all levels of athletic performance to either move to that next level of the game or break a speed plateau or V02 max plateau. This means training endurance along with everything else.

I train my weakness to get better.

[quote]RedMeat wrote:
Ill consider the lower volume… thanks for the info too. All my life has been high volume so that might take some work.

The set/rep scheme doesnt mean much and generally they will be low.

ATF-ass-to-floor

Avacado- thanks for the solid advice- all of that off the ground pulling and leg work does look deep. I need power off of the floor and an obscene amount of leg power. I m also just coming off of a chest specialization split and feeling a bit pulled forward since I didnt include enough upper pulling. Thats my justification for it. Does my justification suck?[/quote]

Your justification sucks for 3 floor up pulls in a row because the 3rd (or deadlift ME.RE) is just going to suck performance wise. Your justification, on the other hand, would be good for replacing the deadlifts with face pulls to retract your upper back if you are feeling forward tension.

Also, If you think about it you end up doing 2 ME or high % of max efforts in one day. First you have the cleans. Now the cleans are one fo your most important lifts for playing footy. they help produce leg drive and unit recruitment etc etc. So it only makes sense to put a maximum effort into them at least 2 weeks out of three. then you have the high Sn pulls which don’t need to be heavy so much as fast and in line. Now on your Wednesday you have ME/Re DL as the third lift. As with most things in life, there are really only two options here. Either you are too worked in the legs from the heavy and fast cleans to get any decent DL performance and your DL is slow and gross, making you fire slower on the field; OR, you can perform the DL ME just fine because you pussed out on the cleans and you know it. If you’re doing your sets and reps right on cleans as a speed power lift then you know that will not leave you with enough gas to properly pull heavy and fast on DL.

If you went to do face pulls or pull ups instead of the DL then you would still have a strong pulling lift without having to extend your hips, which should already have gotten their share of work. An upper body pull would also help facilitate some nice finisher jerks.

But it’s really your bid. You have to feel comfortable that your legs get enough stimulation to make you fast on the field. I would say that the DL portion is likely overcompensation because you know it’s a good lift and don’t want to not do it. But you are getting pissloads of DL’s in through the other lifts. Also the pulls you get from the clean/Sn and their assistance are more likely to make you faster than the heavier, slower DL from the floor to hp only. If you have to DL without cleaning then pick something like Dead Clean/snatch pulls, or power 2nd pull/shrugs from the blocks rack. Pick somehting fast if you must pick a vert pull over an upper body pull.

-chris

awesome critique. thank YOU

Yo that.

-chris

This thread’s awesome.

I want advice, but I already know everything, so tell me stuff so I can tell you you’re wrong!!

[quote]Hanley wrote:
This thread’s awesome.

I want advice, but I already know everything, so tell me stuff so I can tell you you’re wrong!![/quote]

This is not necessary and is not how this thread developed. I simply wanted help and do not need your antagonism.

Thanks anyway.