T Nation

Olympic Combat Sports

As usual we get screwed on tv coverage for wrestling, judo, and taekwuado. At least we get to see some boxing. anyone know of a site that will have video online? Wifey is in the hospital with new baby so won’t be able to watch live streams until later in the week.

Schedule if anyone cares.

http://www.nbcolympics.com/tv_and_online_listings/zone=CT/sport=WR/index.html

LOL. You can do what I do…since I’m not in the Olympics, I’ll be in Korea while they are ongoing. They will show all the combative sports live.

I believe you can watch them online live. Not sure about playback.

I’m hoping alot of youtubers will be in the stadium so I can watch the matches when I return home. Otherwise add me to the list of guys lokking for a live stream site.

[quote]dhickey wrote:
As usual we get screwed on tv coverage for wrestling, judo, and taekwuado. At least we get to see some boxing. anyone know of a site that will have video online? Wifey is in the hospital with new baby so won’t be able to watch live streams until later in the week.

Schedule if anyone cares.

http://www.nbcolympics.com/tv_and_online_listings/zone=CT/sport=WR/index.html

[/quote]

Not sure, but probably Youtube.

I have e-mail alerts coming for most of the men’s wrestling coverage. Naturally, it’s almost all online streams and almost all at around 3am. Eight billion hours of prime time swimming coverage and hardly any wrestling. Well done.

We might actually get some TKD coverage this year as nearly the whole Lopez clan has qualified. Hopefully NBC will rally behind the American atheletes in support.

www.nbcolympics.com is streaming coverage of a variety of sports, including wrestling.

Spanish Channels show boxing, o-lifting
Korean channel shows Judo, wrestling, TKD

I just found out that “race-walking” is an Olympic sport. How the hell is there room for race-walking when we already have at least 6 running events, yet there is no room for pankration/jiu jitsu/etc… and who at NBC thinks that rowing and beach volleyball are more entertaining than judo and wrestling? I forgot how much I hate the Olympics and what is shown in the States.

[quote]chitown34 wrote:
I just found out that “race-walking” is an Olympic sport. How the hell is there room for race-walking when we already have at least 6 running events, yet there is no room for pankration/jiu jitsu/etc… and who at NBC thinks that rowing and beach volleyball are more entertaining than judo and wrestling? I forgot how much I hate the Olympics and what is shown in the States.[/quote]

A lot of these things they show barely qualify as sports. I think the problem that Judo, and to some degree wrestling, are going to have is the lack of understanding of the sport. I have never rowed a boat. Not once. But I can watch that boring shit and know exactly who won.

Unless you are pretty educated about the sport, judo and wrestling can be very hard to comprehend. As much as I would be thrilled for it to happen as it is my main athletic passion, BJJ will never be made an Olympic sport. The level of sophistication required to understand what you are watching will kill any chance of it making it big.

On a side note, you can go to NBC’s olympic site and they have a lot of Judo to watch. They even stream some of it live. I am sure they will do the same with wrestling. Pretty good compromise.

[quote]chitown34 wrote:
I just found out that “race-walking” is an Olympic sport. How the hell is there room for race-walking when we already have at least 6 running events, yet there is no room for pankration/jiu jitsu/etc… and who at NBC thinks that rowing and beach volleyball are more entertaining than judo and wrestling? I forgot how much I hate the Olympics and what is shown in the States.[/quote]

Dressage is possibly the most rediculous sport

Taekwondo should be dropped for one of the above, its a “game” not even a combat sport, that is nothing more than “counter attack kick fighting”.Until the rules are revised i think it should be swapped for something else.

To be an Olympic sport, you must have a significant number of nations with a large body of athletes. Apparently race walking and beach volley has a bigger following than pankration or jiujitsu. However, I wouldn’t be surprised if submission grappling became an Olympic sport at some point with its meteoric rise in the last few years.

As to why wrestling or judo are not shown more, that is simply because the sports are difficult to understand technically. My mom has been followed wrestling for around 12 years and still doesn’t know the rules. Standards of control, for instance, are very hard to understand unless you actually have done the sport.

JD’s analysis is, for the most part right on the money. I a nation lacks a champion and it’s a sport where know how is required, no one’s gonna look at it.
That’s why Germany must endure ski jumping, a sport NO ONE one is actively practicing save for some competing athletes.

Boxing is easy to watch, whoever whacks the other more often and brutally wins. Wrestling, not so easy…
I agree that Tae Kwon DO on the highest level looks often awful, alhough its better in the higher weight classes.

But my real beef is with fukn FENCING.
What are they doing!?
They are moving around like faeries. My buddies in fourth grade had rougher fencing matches and I’m serious.
First, it’s just point scoring where, in contrast to other point systems, a hit will NEVER hurt. Even in TWD an occasional KO is possible. Fencing carries ZERO danger of being hurt even a little.
And they stop immediately! Never mind your oppnent hit you square in the face/mask, because a split second before, you stung him so lightly in the leg he would have never realized.
Also, they move just in TWO fukn dimensions!
It’s an outrage. Moving intelligently and athletically around is a large part of fighting and technical issues are long gone by now.

Rant over.

[quote]Wayland wrote:
chitown34 wrote:
I just found out that “race-walking” is an Olympic sport. How the hell is there room for race-walking when we already have at least 6 running events, yet there is no room for pankration/jiu jitsu/etc… and who at NBC thinks that rowing and beach volleyball are more entertaining than judo and wrestling? I forgot how much I hate the Olympics and what is shown in the States.

Dressage is possibly the most rediculous sport

Taekwondo should be dropped for one of the above, its a “game” not even a combat sport, that is nothing more than “counter attack kick fighting”.Until the rules are revised i think it should be swapped for something else.[/quote]

As far as Oly Tkd, I have represented the US Internationally and won. Based on my experience and knowledge in the matter, I’m going to disagree on your statement that it is not a combat sport. However, I DO understand where you are coming from.
Elite level Tkd requires a Great deal of athleticism and talent. The rules USED to be more power based. They are not so much anymore…and the padding is more advanced…therefore, it is much more difficult to cause “damage” to the body. The “game” has evolved as a result of this as well as rule changes to be more “spectator” friendly. I believe that is the mistake of Tkd (one the other sports have not fallen captive to) Also, tkd is looked at much differently in other countries than it is here, for what that’s worth. Nevertheless, it is indeed combat.

Regardless, as far as it being an Oly sport, I look at it no differently than boxing, or judo and wrestling.

With judo and wrestling in the mix, it will be a hard sell to land another ground “game” into the Olympics.

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
JD’s analysis is, for the most part right on the money. I a nation lacks a champion and it’s a sport where know how is required, no one’s gonna look at it.
That’s why Germany must endure ski jumping, a sport NO ONE one is actively practicing save for some competing athletes.

Boxing is easy to watch, whoever whacks the other more often and brutally wins. Wrestling, not so easy…
I agree that Tae Kwon DO on the highest level looks often awful, alhough its better in the higher weight classes.

But my real beef is with fukn FENCING.
What are they doing!?
They are moving around like faeries. My buddies in fourth grade had rougher fencing matches and I’m serious.
First, it’s just point scoring where, in contrast to other point systems, a hit will NEVER hurt. Even in TWD an occasional KO is possible. Fencing carries ZERO danger of being hurt even a little.
And they stop immediately! Never mind your oppnent hit you square in the face/mask, because a split second before, you stung him so lightly in the leg he would have never realized.
Also, they move just in TWO fukn dimensions!
It’s an outrage. Moving intelligently and athletically around is a large part of fighting and technical issues are long gone by now.

Rant over. [/quote]

I disagree. While I can’t say I want or understand much about fencing, I do know it is a sport that requires an enormous amount to skill and athleticism. Moving in only two directions make it all the more difficult to execute an effective attacks and makes long set ups and speed all the more important. I also appreciate the long and storied history behind the sport.

But really, a lot of your critique is moot. A lot of sports don’t run the risk on injury on scoring. In collegiate wrestling, true slams are illegal, and most scoring (near points or escapes, for instance) runs no risk of injury at all. How are you gonna injure someone as you get away from him?

Would you really want fencers to die of pierced organs by giving them sharp foils?

Part of it, though, is just that I am extremely impressed by any sort of one-on-one competition and have A Hard-on for Talent ( http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=481832 ) like TC, be it the K-1 Middleweight Championship, or the World Streetfighter (the video game) championship.

Sweet Satan, why do I always have to mention in an american forum that: it’s not like I disrespect these athletes’ accomplishments, their work or their dedication.

I assure you, this is not the case.

It’s that fencing has zero to do with fighting that irritates me.

Not a lack of general athletisicm or speific skillsets, which are always in a sport no matter how awesome or one dimensional and stupid (IMO of course, of course)

And I think you misunderstood me really BAD regarding scoring and inflicting pain.
Wrestling is a hard sport where your opponent fights with his body AND his skills, reflexes and wits.
It’s not necessarily pain or potential injuries. Physical conflict, be it just annoying shove/push, sheer muscle strength grinding against each other or whatever, the physical dimension is totally absent here.

Furthermore, the essence of this part. sport has atrophied just so much it has no connection to it’s past and proper use.

Sorry that I misunderstood you, but I think that you weren’t being very clear. So let me try and restate what you’re saying so you know that I understand you basic conclusion and argument.

You don’t like fencing because it has nothing to do with fighting and has slowly moved away from its past use as a “fighting art”.

First, I think if you gave a fencer a sharp blade and tried to swordfight him, he would rape you, even if he has never trained with a real one in his life. The game is not so far removed that there is absolutely no translation between real fighting and the sport.

Second, consider greco-roman wrestling. The primary objective of the sport is to expose the back of your opponent to the mat using only your upper body. What does that have to do with “real fighting” (any more than fencing at least).

The physical conflict part, I’m not quite sure what you mean. All sports have different physical elements–boxing is about speed primarily, landing as many punches as possible. Wrestling is about balance and pushing and pulling your opponent. Jiujitsu is about positioning and transitions. Fencing is speed and accuracy of blade strikes.

Btw, I’m a former wrestler and have never even seen a real fencing match in my life (seen a few videos). Just so you don’t think I have some bias against wresting or for fencing.

Maybe we can all just agree that watching women’s heavyweight judo is a rare treat, and that the Egyptian lass justified all the Olympics hype all on her own.

[quote]Hold Up wrote:

As far as Oly Tkd, I have represented the US Internationally and won. Based on my experience and knowledge in the matter, I’m going to disagree on your statement that it is not a combat sport. However, I DO understand where you are coming from.
Elite level Tkd requires a Great deal of athleticism and talent. The rules USED to be more power based. They are not so much anymore…and the padding is more advanced…therefore, it is much more difficult to cause “damage” to the body. The “game” has evolved as a result of this as well as rule changes to be more “spectator” friendly. I believe that is the mistake of Tkd (one the other sports have not fallen captive to) Also, tkd is looked at much differently in other countries than it is here, for what that’s worth. Nevertheless, it is indeed combat.

Regardless, as far as it being an Oly sport, I look at it no differently than boxing, or judo and wrestling.

With judo and wrestling in the mix, it will be a hard sell to land another ground “game” into the Olympics.
[/quote]

I used to represent the UK internationally and now str and con coach for tkd athletes, i saw where the sport was going and decided to pull out myself.

My dissertation was a notational analysis on the 2004 Games. 80% of techniques used where bandal chagi (45 degree kick) and counter attacking provided over 70% of all points scored. less that 10 punches where scored in the entire competition!

I think rule revisions are needed for more points for offensive attacking and of course punching (like adding gloves helped!) I think in my heart of hearts i wish TKD was more like kyokushin which i now practice. With zero padding and no strikes to the head it seems like a more “honest” perhaps brutal striking art than tkd can ever claim to be.

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:

But my real beef is with fukn FENCING.
What are they doing!?
They are moving around like faeries. My buddies in fourth grade had rougher fencing matches and I’m serious.
First, it’s just point scoring where, in contrast to other point systems, a hit will NEVER hurt. Even in TWD an occasional KO is possible. Fencing carries ZERO danger of being hurt even a little.
And they stop immediately! Never mind your oppnent hit you square in the face/mask, because a split second before, you stung him so lightly in the leg he would have never realized.
Also, they move just in TWO fukn dimensions!
It’s an outrage. Moving intelligently and athletically around is a large part of fighting and technical issues are long gone by now.

Rant over. [/quote]

Funny you mentioned fencing.

I watched it one time and got so annoyed I swore it off forever.
What got me was the insane screaming and fist gesturing after a point was scored. What makes it crazier is the fact that they do it every single time, and with 15 points needed to win, it goes on for a while. Both fencers doing it every time also was pathetic.

I’ve never fenced, but I would imagine that sometimes you just know you lost the exchange. What are they trying to do, trick the judges with bullshit celebration? The whole thing just struck me as unsportsman-like and undignified.

[quote]Fiction wrote:
Sorry that I misunderstood you, but I think that you weren’t being very clear. So let me try and restate what you’re saying so you know that I understand you basic conclusion and argument.

You don’t like fencing because it has nothing to do with fighting and has slowly moved away from its past use as a “fighting art”.

First, I think if you gave a fencer a sharp blade and tried to swordfight him, he would rape you, even if he has never trained with a real one in his life. The game is not so far removed that there is absolutely no translation between real fighting and the sport.

Second, consider greco-roman wrestling. The primary objective of the sport is to expose the back of your opponent to the mat using only your upper body. What does that have to do with “real fighting” (any more than fencing at least).

The physical conflict part, I’m not quite sure what you mean. All sports have different physical elements–boxing is about speed primarily, landing as many punches as possible. Wrestling is about balance and pushing and pulling your opponent. Jiujitsu is about positioning and transitions. Fencing is speed and accuracy of blade strikes.

Btw, I’m a former wrestler and have never even seen a real fencing match in my life (seen a few videos). Just so you don’t think I have some bias against wresting or for fencing.

[/quote]

Nope, that EXACTLY what I dispute:
A fencer with a sword is not going to murder me easily at all.

Someone who is conditoned for years to not being able to cope with lateral movement will have big problems with me.
He may have very good reflexes and speed, but he unlearnt the art of pressing the attack, which is a paramount skill for a true fighter.
Fencers live to only obtain victory by scoring the slightest of touches. A true fighter takes every opportunity to trade a light hit with a serious one for himself.