I know that programs like 5/3/1 and sheiko are effective. But what is the real value of training on such a system that is based on theses percentages(sub-max training). When did lifters start using percentages as opposed to just going in the gym and just training hard. I like Wendler and his philosophy but personally don’t like having to reference a chart of weights/percentages. I feel like the old school guys never did this and just went in and trained hard and ate a lot. Would most agree that intensity and consistency is the most important factors in making progress?
5/3/1 isn’t a powerlifting program.
Train the way you find to be the most effective.
Which old school guys didn’t have a program to follow? I’m curious.
You need some logical sort of progression, if you have no direction then you probably won’t get far.
There has almost always been both sides of the coin.
Not really. Ed Coan talks about how he would program every weight leading up to a meet, even his assistance work. A lot of the “old timers” Pacifico, Young, Kaz, Karwoski, programmed.
Yes, as long as you are making progress. But when progress stops you have to start to thinking.
I agree with @T3hPwnisher. Train how you want. If you don’t enjoy it you won’t wanna do it.
A good variety of exercises, intensity and volume is always good. Learn your body.
I personally don’t train percentages anymore; haven’t for a while. Just go lift and enjoy the process. It should enhance your life, not detract from it.
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I like percentage based programs because they push progression. It forces you to go beyond what you might believe you can do. This was big for my squat. You don’t have to believe in yourself, you just have to lift the weight that the program tells you. There’s no choice. They’re also (sometimes) planned out in an intelligent fashion that is lacking in autonomous programming.
I dislike them because you won’t be in the same condition to lift for each session. There will be days you’re stronger, and days you’re weaker. Days you can handle a lot of volume, and days you can’t handle much.
A solution I’ll often use is a progression with built in autonomy. My favorite is 6-10 sets of 1 with 15-30 seconds rest. Starting at 85-90%. If you get more than 8 reps, the weight goes up 5-10lbs for the next workout. This allows for extra work on good days and less on bad days.
But to answer your question. Yes, intensity and consistency, TRACKED over time. Know your 1-5RMs for your core lifts, not just your 1RM. Write them down and beat them when you can. By 5lbs. Do this enough times and you’ll be pretty damn strong.
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The point I’m making is that there’s many guys in prison who are very strong and the real old time guys who were very strong. Im sure guys who are in prison are not tracking anything and never heard of a % of 1RM model, dynamic effort work, periodization etc.
Are you asking a question, trying to prove a point, or just get assurance that you don’t have to train in a way that doesn’t interest you?
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How much time did you spend in prison, and how many various prisons did you go to, to establish this? As this seems to be one of those Hollywood myths, especially given that many prisons in the states don’t even allow inmates access to weights any more.
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Some stuff I thought of.
In olden times, it was expected that you’d kinda figure some stuff out on your own. Now a days, people want to get great info from great coaches, and just do what they say. Cut out the BS and get right to business. Like using a lawyer in court or an accountant for taxes. Percentages are just a good way to give instructions. Almost like a recipe.
Some old school routines were like heavy bodybuilding combined with lots of food to get huge and strong. There was non maximal work, but for higher reps with the goal of getting big.
Lots of people don’t want to eat big now. They want to keep the abs and stay in their low weight class. Non maximal work in the big lifts, without a lot of big assistance stuff helps stay in your weight class.
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I can honestly say most or my training career I have followed just instinct type training. If I felt bad I pulled back if I felt good I went for a PR. I never cared for percent based programs. I always preferred just going in and working hard and harder. Forcing my self to get rep PRs of some sort almost weekly.
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There are some people out there who can get very strong without any sort of well planned or thought out training, but they are a small minority and the same guys would probably be even stronger if their training was better.
Which old time guys are you talking about?
Getting stronger is just putting the right weight on the bar and moving it the right number of times.
Percentages are a system that allows you to do that. They are also an easy way of communicating to others how to do it.
It’s far more precise than “lift this ten times, add weight until it feels hard”. If you don’t believe me, have a look at Wendler’s or Thib’s forums here and look at the confusion some people get themselves into. Some of those programs are literally 1 decision to make then do what you’re told and people royally fuck it up.
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Can’t wait to see Westside vs Louisiana state penitentiary at the next nationals.
As everyone else has already said percentages have been around for a while. If you aren’t a fan of percentage based programming you can try to implement the RPE method instead. When I first started powerlifting five years back I never tracked anything I just went in and trained hard. I took a 3 year hiatus from powerlifting for various reasons and now that I’ve been back into it for a couple of months I’ve been programming very diligently. I got really strong just going in and training hard, but I feel I’m gaining strength faster and my form is better now that I’m actually programming