Old Man Jones vs Lebedev

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I will always say that in his prime, I believe that he could be the finest pound for pound fighter of all time.

Yea, I know, Sugar Ray Robinson… but damn, Roy’s a close #2 if he don’t win. Dude’s so slick.
[/quote]

P4P ratings are a personal thing so I don’t think anyone could complain if you ranked him #1. In terms of looking good and having emphatic victories over quality opposition he’s up there with the best. However, a lot of people (myself included) place heavy emphasis on level of competition, length of title reign and number of fights. In those respects, it’s hard to see him toppling Robinson, Ali, etc.

I would have liked to see Roy give Hopkins another fight in his prime. Now that we know how good an analyst Hopkins is I definately could see him sneaking the rematch. One fight that SHOULD have happened is a match with Gerald McClellan. Apparently it was close to getting made when he got fucked up. Sad.

Marciano was the p4p champion.

[quote]kaisermetal wrote:
Marciano was the p4p champion.[/quote]

ummmm, no, he wasn’t, Rocky was fortunate to come along when all the past great heavyweights were way to old. ie… joe louis. there wasn’t any competition at all for rocky. if he was around when joe frazier, george foreman, ali, ken norton were around, im sorry to say, that rocky wouldn’t have been destroyed rather easily by any of them. ali in his prime would have killed rocky. ali was wayyyyy to fast. rocky wouldn’t hit him once. formeman would have knocked him out in under 2 minutes.

[quote]kaisermetal wrote:
Marciano was the p4p champion.[/quote]

Nah. Marciano was a spectacular heavyweight but not the best pound for pound of all time. More people typically give that to Sugar Ray Robinson, although, as I said, I’ve always thought RJJ could give him fits because they’re very similar.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I will always say that in his prime, I believe that he could be the finest pound for pound fighter of all time.

Yea, I know, Sugar Ray Robinson… but damn, Roy’s a close #2 if he don’t win. Dude’s so slick.

Wow that’s a beautiful tribute.

While it’s a good point that Roy’s competition wasn’t the best of the best, he still fought his fair share of talented boxers and made them look like they were amateurs. I mean, James Toney was was #1 in the P4P rankings when they fought but RJJ still made him look like a chump, and Toney ain’t no chump.

[quote]duffyj2 wrote:
So, in light of last night, where does this leave Hopkins/Jones on the list of P4P greats?[/quote]

Hopkins is definitely moving up the list but there’s no rivalry. Unless Hopkins were to beat the winner of the Super Six and a legitimate heavyweight champion I wouldn’t have it close. Jones was just so dominant in his prime that I can’t put Hopkins ahead of him. Jones didn’t even lose many rounds until his loss to Montell Griffin, then he continued to completely dominate his opposition until his best years were behind around the time of the Tarver fights.

[quote]kaisermetal wrote:
Marciano was the p4p champion.[/quote]

I think he’s a little underrated at times but I really can’t put him as the P4P greatest fighter of all times.

Look, I love RJJ but you can’t put him ahead of the real Sugar Ray. The shear amount of wins against the comp he faced puts SRR at the top of the list.

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Look, I love RJJ but you can’t put him ahead of the real Sugar Ray. The shear amount of wins against the comp he faced puts SRR at the top of the list.[/quote]

I’m not saying that he didn’t face better competition. But I think if the two of them fought in their primes, it would be a pick’em. Both are superbly fast, powerful, and really just very complete and athletic fighters.

[quote]goldengloves wrote:

[quote]kaisermetal wrote:
Marciano was the p4p champion.[/quote]

I think he’s a little underrated at times but I really can’t put him as the P4P greatest fighter of all times.
[/quote]

I’d put him in the top 50.

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Look, I love RJJ but you can’t put him ahead of the real Sugar Ray. The shear amount of wins against the comp he faced puts SRR at the top of the list.[/quote]

There’s some poor quality footage of him still fighting as a welterweight, it cemented him as the pound for pound greatest for me. He easily has some of the best footwork I’ve ever seen and could unload combination punches while moving forward like most fighters with fast hands get them off with their feet planted.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]goldengloves wrote:

[quote]kaisermetal wrote:
Marciano was the p4p champion.[/quote]

I think he’s a little underrated at times but I really can’t put him as the P4P greatest fighter of all times.
[/quote]

I’d put him in the top 50.[/quote]

I think that’s fair. Actually, keeping with the spirit of pound for pound he could rank pretty well. He was just unfortunate enough, or fortunate depending on how you look at it, to be in the division where big names were coming to the end of their careers and before some serious opposition entered the division. Sonny Liston really comes to mind when thinking of someone that could have ended his undefeated streak, his 84" wing span might have just been too much for Rocky.

I like Prince Naseem evasive skills.

[quote]kaisermetal wrote:
I like Prince Naseem evasive skills.[/quote]

Pernell Whitaker brah

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Look, I love RJJ but you can’t put him ahead of the real Sugar Ray. The shear amount of wins against the comp he faced puts SRR at the top of the list.[/quote]

I’m not saying that he didn’t face better competition. But I think if the two of them fought in their primes, it would be a pick’em. Both are superbly fast, powerful, and really just very complete and athletic fighters. [/quote]

Speed and power and athleticism are a must but a good chin and the mental fortitude to overcome immeasurable odds are very underrated qualities. Roy never trained those aspects and it backfired when he lost even a second on his speed, and was behind in a round. For that I have to give it to SRR. Roy def had the most potential athletically though.

[quote]pslikk wrote:

[quote]kaisermetal wrote:
I like Prince Naseem evasive skills.[/quote]

Pernell Whitaker brah[/quote]

HOLY FUCK!!!

awesome, living and learning.

Ahaha yeah Sweet Pea’s evasive skills make Naseem look stupid

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
Ahaha yeah Sweet Pea’s evasive skills make Naseem look stupid[/quote]

I think he did a good job of making himself look stupid. Personally, I couldn’t stand him. Barrera slamming his head into a turnbuckle is easily one of the best moments in boxing back in 2001.

Barrera ROCKS!

The Barrera fight was hilarious. I think Naseem was a good boxer, but when you start fighting the best, you should treat them like they’re the best.

I read an interview with Pernell where he claimed he invented his highly evasive style just for entertainment. I suppose when you are the best, you don’t have to give anybody shit.

I just watched the Barerra fight, I hadn’t seen it before. Wow. It’s a strange sort of pleasure to see such a arrogant fuck take such a beating in that manner.

And slamming his gay elf head into the turnbuckle? Priceless.

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
I just watched the Barerra fight, I hadn’t seen it before. Wow. It’s a strange sort of pleasure to see such a arrogant fuck take such a beating in that manner.

And slamming his gay elf head into the turnbuckle? Priceless.

[/quote]

I did the same. Barerra beat the piss out of him. One of the vids called Hamed a “Jug eared elf”, haha.