Old Fashion Way: Food, Not Supps

It seems like there are more and more reasons everyday to rethink workout shakes/ PWO-shakes…

[quote]xivb4m wrote:

It seems like there are more and more reasons everyday to rethink workout shakes/ PWO-shakes…

[/quote]

The guys in this article are NOT bodybuilders, they are trail runners, swimmers etc.

Since his graduation in 1985, Dr. Tarnopolsky has been active at McMaster as a student, medical doctor, assistant professor and researcher in the departments of Medicine and Kinesiology. In July 2000, Dr. Tarnopolsky will become an associate professor in the Department of Kinesiology.


Stuart Phillips.

Some of his published/peer-reviewed works:

Grants and Research Awards, Received (2005)

2005 �?? Phillips S.M. Muscle protein turnover in humans. Natural Science and Engineering research Council �?? 5 years, $210,000

2005 �?? Phillips SM. Impact of whey and casein supplementation on human muscle protein turnover after resistance exercise. US National Dairy Council �?? 1 year, $70,730 (US)

2005 - Phillips, S.M., Rennie, M.J., and Tarnopolsky M.A. A mechanistic evaluation of immobilization-induced muscle protein loss in humans. National Science and Engineering research Council/Canadian Institutes for Health Research �?? Collaborative Health Research Projects �?? 3 years, $310,500

Peer-reviewed publications (last 3 years): Published papers (all underlined authors were directed or co-supervised by myself)

  1.    J.E. Tang, J.J. Manolakos, G.W. Kujbida, P.J. Lysecki, D.R. Moore, and S.M. Phillips. Minimal whey protein with carbohydrate stimulates muscle protein synthesis following resistance exercise in trained young men. Appl. Physiol. Nutr. Metab. 2007, In press.
    
  2.    M.A. Tarnopolsky, S.M. Phillips, G. Parise, A. Varbanov, J. Demuth, P. Stevens, X.Y. Qu, F. Wang, and R. Isfort. Gene expression, fiber type, and strength are similar between legs in older adults. J. Gerontol. A. Biol. Sci. 2007, In press.
    
  3.    F. Poelkens, M. Rakobowchuk, K.A. Burgomaster, M.T.E. Hopman, S.M. Phillips, and M.J. MacDonald. Effect of unilateral resistance training on arterial compliance in elderly men. Appl. Physiol. Nutr. Metab. 2007, In press.
    
  4.    J.W. Hartman, J.E. Tang, S.B. Wilkinson, M.A. Tarnopolsky, R.L. Lawrence, A.V. Fullerton, and S.M. Phillips. Consumption of fat-free fluid milk following resistance exercise promotes greater lean mass accretion than soy or carbohydrate consumption in young novice male weightlifters. Am. J. Clin, Nutr. 2007, In press.
    
  5.    K.A. Burgomaster, N.M. Cermak, S.M. Phillips, C.R. Benton, A. Bonen, and M.J. Gibala. Divergent response of metabolite transport proteins in human skeletal muscle after sprint interval training and detraining. Am. J. Physiol. Regul. Integr. Comp. Physiol. 292(5): R1970-R1976, 2007.
    
  6.    D.R. Moore, N.C. Del Bel, K.I. Nizi, J.W. Hartman, J.E. Tang, D. Armstrong, S.M. Phillips. Resistance training reduces fasted- and fed-state leucine turnover and increases dietary nitrogen retention in previously untrained young men. J. Nutr. 137(4):985-991, 2007.
    
  7.    S.B. Wilkinson, M.A. Tarnopolsky, M.J. MacDonald, J.R. MacDonald, D. Armstrong and S.M. Phillips. Consumption of fluid skim milk promotes greater muscle protein accretion following resistance exercise than an isonitrogenous and isoenergetic soy protein beverage. Am. J. Clin. Nutr. 85(4):1031-1040, 2007.
    

You might want to start hitting up some protein shakes.

D

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
Since his graduation in 1985, Dr. Tarnopolsky has been active at McMaster as a student, medical doctor, assistant professor and researcher in the departments of Medicine and Kinesiology. In July 2000, Dr. Tarnopolsky will become an associate professor in the Department of Kinesiology.[/quote]

While this man is an accomplished research scientist and doctor, and has been published in peer reviewed journals, and is an award winning 154 pound trail runner, I still find it hard to believe the word of a man who carries less mass than I do, and does not lift weights.

Agreed. At least in the context of strength training and bodybuilding.

I thought it would be interesting to have the discussion knowing what these guys looked like.

Why, yes… you DO indeed look like a trail runner, Doctor…

I always find these studies interesting. It seems they aren’t aiming for maximum performance, rather, they seem to aim for minimality for sustaining life. I would love to see a study where they had 20 power/strength athletes on 20 g/day of protein vs 20 others consuming 200 g/day of protein, keeping calories constant.

[quote]graphicsMan wrote:
I always find these studies interesting. It seems they aren’t aiming for maximum performance, rather, they seem to aim for minimality for sustaining life. I would love to see a study where they had 20 power/strength athletes on 20 g/day of protein vs 20 others consuming 200 g/day of protein, keeping calories constant. [/quote]

Agreed.

Even as it relates to running, they really aren’t looking at maximum performance.

The article is more appropriate for the masses who just want to finish a marathon or triathalon.

[quote]graphicsMan wrote:
I always find these studies interesting. It seems they aren’t aiming for maximum performance, rather, they seem to aim for minimality for sustaining life. I would love to see a study where they had 20 power/strength athletes on 20 g/day of protein vs 20 others consuming 200 g/day of protein, keeping calories constant. [/quote]

I agree. These guys approach “exercise” with an almost apologetic attitude. “Yeah, we lift some stuff, we run, but we promise, we’re still mostly normal!”

Now, they are doctors, I’m not, so I listen when they talk. But when what they say is “stay alive” and not “maximize your abilities and life experience” I tend to discount a good bit of the advice.

Remember, John ‘Surge’ Berardi’s first name is “doctor,” too.

(this post brought to you by the American Association of “Quotation Marks”)

Also, the “old fashioned” way doesn’t make it the superior way. That’s coming from a karate guy.

Me, I want to put on as much muscle as I can while staying around 190lbs, improving my karate ability, and getting as strong as possible. Supplementation makes that a possibility.

If your coach got paralyzed, would you stop listening to him? You are using someone’s size as an EXCUSE not to listen to something you don’t want to hear. In this case however, it’s not even necessary, as the article is not talking about the nutritional needs of someone who is trying to build muscle, it’s talking about the maintenance level recovery needs of an endurance athlete. It actually validated the need and benefit of the PWO shake, despite its puny authors.

Also, a point they made that should be clarified - “Twenty grams (of protein) is as much as a 176-pound man�??s muscles can take.” They did not specify, but my unerstanding is that is 20 grams of EAA they are referring to, not 20 grams total protein. For whey that actually works out to about 55 grams of protein.

[quote]graphicsMan wrote:
I always find these studies interesting. It seems they aren’t aiming for maximum performance, rather, they seem to aim for minimality for sustaining life. I would love to see a study where they had 20 power/strength athletes on 20 g/day of protein vs 20 others consuming 200 g/day of protein, keeping calories constant. [/quote]

Have you looked for any?

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=2129150

EDIT: They didn’t say 20 grams a day, so I assume they intended to mean 20 grams in one sitting, in this case, in the pwo window, and as I already mentioned, and as is cited in that article, 20 grams of EAA, not total protein.

i listen to my body which people should do often instead of always scrambling to the words of the “experts”

and my body feels a hell of a lot better in recovery and soreness (decreased) with a proper protein + carb shake PWO as compared to a carb + protein whole food meal

[quote]atypicaluser wrote:
If your coach got paralyzed, would you stop listening to him? You are using someone’s size as an EXCUSE not to listen to something you don’t want to hear.
[/quote]
Quite an extreme example. This guy isn’t paralyzed and the majority of the other people dishing out advice without looking the part (from the standpoint of muscular development) aren’t either.

I personally am more likely to listen to people who have been where I want to go and achieved what I want to achieve. This also involves looking the part. If in some extraordinary case the person isn’t able to train any more due to health reasons and his body has deteriorated to an extreme extent, I’ll take this into account. Another rare exception would be a person who hasn’t been very successful himself, but has outstanding success with helping others and is well known for this.

Food for thought is always welcome regardless of the source as long as it’s reasonably well thought out. The source will definitely influence the value I attribute to it, at least to some extent.

But as you stated yourself, this isn’t even the point here…

Agree completely.